Decisions

[kurayamino]

Hello all!

 

First, I know there's a "Decisions" forum already, but to be honest... I've looked through the topics and responses and was both simultaneously annoyed at how unhelpful some of the people are and horrified at how malicious others were. I hope you all don't mind that I start this topic here because I think, as English majors, we have a lot of things that are important to consider since our stipends tend to be on the lowest end of the spectrum and so forth.

 

I just wondered what criteria you all feel is important in deciding between schools. I didn't apply to any place I wouldn't want to live or where there weren't people I wanted to work with. So, what are you all using as a metric to help you decide? If you have a top choice, how did it get there for you?

 

I'm trying to use placement ratings and cost of living/stipend as my main deciders, but it's proving to be difficult. Sort of like, apples and oranges, in my case. Any other suggestions about what to use in order to make the best decision?

 

 

 

 

[circlewave]

Of course I know which of my programs are ranked slightly higher, or place marginally better than others, but realistically, it's going to be hard to find a job no matter where I attend, and all of my programs are roughly in the same 'tier' (if such a thing exists). I'm primarily concerned with my fit in the program - this extends not just to matching my interests with the department, but also how well I get on with the other students, whether I have things in common with them besides English, etc. In a lot of ways, I'm looking at this Ph.D as a job, so it's important to me that the workplace culture fits my style, and I have coworkers I'll be able to enjoy my time with, rather than being competitive and cynical, or mean, or even just bored with.

 

Naturally, I'm also concerned with whether the program is in a place I could see myself spending the rest of my 20's. Realistically, this is a time in life when people start to do 'real life' stuff - long-term relationships, getting married, etc. I have no immediate plans for any of that, but I'll probably feel pretty different at 28, and that kind of thing could be difficult to manage, say, in a college town primarily populated by undergrads. Add that to the fact that I'm very much used to city life, and being surrounded by a lot of stuff to do, and location becomes a pretty big factor.

 

Of course, as much as I like pro sports and nightlife, I also really like outdoor stuff and inexpensive living. Here I might have said one thing, then the other, and then punted on the whole question, but I feel optimistic I would be happy in just about anywhere...save for a subdivision surrounded by stripmalls.

[NowMoreSerious]

I know I've said this before, but visit places.  Visit as many as you can afford or have time for.  I would even borrow money and take time off work in order to make these trips (many schools reimburse you but don't pay up front).  I know I did. 

 

Also, I would ask yourself what type of environment you think you'd thrive in.  Hyper-competition?  Lay-back?  Communal?  Friendly, but everyone keeps to themselves?  Big programs where you can have your space, or small program where everybody knows everybody? Do you need to be near friends and family?  

 

When you visit, take the opportunity to ask about the advisement and mentorship styles for your POI's.  To do this, ask the STUDENTS who are currently being advised by your POI.  If you can't find any you have to find out whether its because not many people are working in their field or because nobody wants to work with that advisor.  If EVERYONE is working with your advisor, that's something to consider in terms of how much time they would be able to give to you.  

 

Sometimes during welcome weeks, only first and second year grad students attend.  But if you come across a 4th or 5th year, as in somebody who is doing their dissertation, talk to them.  They will often give you a view of the department that his a different (longer view) perspective. 

 

 

People pay a lot of attention to location, but I think its overrated.  I know plenty of people who are happy with their programs, but don't like the city they are in, and I know many people who are unhappy with the program, but maybe like the city.  The latter are always in a much worse position.  

 

If you have any other questions let me know.  2 years ago I visited 6 places all around the country in order to make my decision.  And when I did I was paying very close attention to everything going on at the school.  

[CarolineNC]

I don't know which program to choose. I'm leaning towards Davis because of its rank, but California is so expensive!!! 

[ProfLorax]

True, California is very expensive. But Davis will be cheaper than the bay area, LA or San Diego areas. It's worth looking up apartments on craigslist to check out how much rent is there! I know Sacramento, which is just up the street from Davis, tends to be pretty affordable.

[kurayamino]

I don't know which program to choose. I'm leaning towards Davis because of its rank, but California is so expensive!!! 

 

I'm in the same boat.. Bloomington is just so much more affordable than LA, but I know UCLA is seen as a "better" school. I'm so conflicted!

[jean-luc-gohard]

I'm in the same boat.. Bloomington is just so much more affordable than LA, but I know UCLA is seen as a "better" school. I'm so conflicted!

 

I'm an LA native, so I guess I'll just chime in to say that living here is expensive, yo. I lived in a sorta sketchy area of downtown for four years for undergrad and it was upwards of $1000 a month with roommates even there. Add to that the fact that it's basically impossible to get around without a car (believe me, I foolishly tried it for about a year and it was hell - buses don't really stick to a schedule here.) I'd be thrilled to get out of LA and live more comfortably somewhere else for a few years. I definitely don't want to have to deal with financial stress added to all of the stress of a PhD. I have lived here for 23 years, though, so maybe I'm just burned out.

[NowMoreSerious]

Here are more tips, drawn from my own experiences as well as my friends who are also doing an English Ph.D from places such as Davis, USC, UPenn, Cornell, Irvine, UCLA.  

 

-What are the requirements and normal "stages" of graduate work?  How many courses do you have to take?  Do you have to pass some kind of MA exam, or do an MA thesis?  How fast do you have to do this?  

 

-What study and reading groups are available? Are there colloquium that meet regularly for your area of interest?

 

-Does your POI teach seminars?  Is your POI often traveling for conferences and talks?  

 

-What kind of seminars are offered?  Are there normally seminars offered in your area, or by the professors you want to learn from? 

 

-Here's a mistake a lot of people make.  They measure a school's strength in a certain field/area by the presence of one or maybe two famous professors.  Nooope!  You have to make sure that the same professor teaches seminars, is a good advisor, etc. Oh, and that the professor isn't planning on moving to another school or retiring soon!

 

-Don't just look at job placement.  Look at the job placement in your field, and from the dissertations that were advised by the professors you might be working with.  

 

-People say "Your interests might change" and they are wrong.  Your interests WILL change. So another thing to consider is whether the school is strong in areas other than your specific interests.  To me, this is the single biggest argument for picking a top ranked school-not the funding, not the prestige, or even the job placement.  One thing almost all top ranked schools have in common, is that they are strong in almost everything.  They have resources in many areas.  Lets say you choose a school that's very strong in Early Modern, but weak in many other areas.  What if you decide you want to do 19th British now?  Basically, you are in a tough position. But if you are in a top 10 English program there's a 95% chance that there are other amazing professors in whatever direction you want to go.  

 

So that's my 4 cents.  I'm just putting it out there because I feel often people are very secretive about their experiences, or they are just too busy once they are already in to try to help people.  I will be 100% candid.  

Edited February 13, 2015 by NowMoreSerious

[Idiot]

I've heard it's good to look at how much and how early teaching is required. The programs I'm admitted to have very different requirements. 3-4 years (and quite a bit of language instruction) at one school and 1,5-2 years at another. How important is this to consider?

 

Maybe NowMoreSerious or someone else have some experience of this?

[Ramus]

I've heard it's good to look at how much and how early teaching is required. 

 

This should be a huge consideration. If you're asked to teach comp as soon as you start the program, you know that you're not going to be given any substantial training prior to entering the classroom (though the one week "training" your program will have you do before the semester will feel like an eternity). Teaching right out of the gate can also be a real struggle if this is your first time doing graduate work.  You'll be reading a lot more than you did in undergrad, and the amount of work can be difficult to get used to; if you have to teach in addition, the learning curve is all the more steep.

 

The total amount of teaching is probably even more important, for it's one of the biggest factors that'll affect the amount of time it takes to graduate. Does the department/grad school have dissertation fellowships? If only the graduate school does, how often do English doctoral candidates win these awards? For those students that don't win dissertation fellowships that excuse them from teaching, what's the teaching expectation for ABDs? If the department expects you to teach a 2/2 load of comp each and every semester, it'll be almost impossible to graduate in five years. I imagine that even a 1/1 load can feel like a lot when you're trying to finish up the dissertation and apply for jobs in your final year.

 

So, this is all to say that, yes (!!), teaching requirements should be at the forefront of your mind when choosing among your options. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by Ramus

[LCB]

If you're asked to teach comp as soon as you start the program, you know that you're not going to be given any substantial training prior to entering the classroom (though the one week "training" your program will have you do before the semester will feel like an eternity). Teaching right out of the gate can also be a real struggle if this is your first time doing graduate work.  You'll be reading a lot more than you did in undergrad, and the amount of work can be difficult to get used to; if you have to teach in addition, the learning curve is all the more steep.

 

To go along with the training: if you are asked to teach comp immediately, find out what materials you will be given. At my institution, for example, we were given the lesson plans for the first unit to prepare us (which we could tweak to fit our style; it was meant to be a comfort rather than a "do these exactly as we say") and then we worked on the lesson plans for the rest of the course in the mandatory teaching class. It was actually a really beneficial system, because we got to learn about pedagogy but we didn't have to worry about designing the first unit.

 

At some schools, you do have to design the whole class walking in. Some places give you the syllabus, others you design your own. Some have common paper prompts; others you will create your prompts based around unit themes; and still others you have a lot of freedom even in unit design. Some ask you to use a common textbook, while some do open-source texts and might have you choose the readings (which could be scary for a first-time teacher). Finding out exactly what you're given and what you're not walking in on the first day can help you know how much support you'll have, and it can help make your decision.

 

Yes, you're going to an institution for research, but never overlook how much support they give teachers. While you're there, you will be (probably) earning your stipend through teaching. If the place you're at throws you to the wolves... you might want to consider that (especially since the job market on the other end will ask you about teaching too).

[allplaideverything]

I'm in the same boat.. Bloomington is just so much more affordable than LA, but I know UCLA is seen as a "better" school. I'm so conflicted!

 

Kurayamino, I finished my MFA at IU last year, and have been talking with a lot of the PhD folks there throughout my application process this year. I've got opinions and things, if you want to PM me to chat!

[CarolineNC]

I had to teach right off the bat in my MA program at KU. I've taught a 2/2 for three years now. It realllllllllly sucked at first but now I'm grateful for the experience. It's made me more confident, and teaching writing skills has honestly helped my writing. 

Edited February 14, 2015 by CarolineKS

[NowMoreSerious]

I've heard it's good to look at how much and how early teaching is required. The programs I'm admitted to have very different requirements. 3-4 years (and quite a bit of language instruction) at one school and 1,5-2 years at another. How important is this to consider?

 

Maybe NowMoreSerious or someone else have some experience of this?

 

I think it is important to consider depending on the other requirements for the program.  For example, if you teach every year and have little opportunity for fellowships that give you non-teaching years, and the department has a deadline-heavy structure, then that's difficult.  

 

It also depends on your endgame.  If you are committed to teaching and pedagogy then obviously you want that teaching experience.  I'd argue you want the teaching experience period. 

 

Consider also the structure of the teaching requirements.  Not just how many classes, but how much choice do grad students have over their teaching?  Do they pick top choices from a list? Are they simply assigned courses without regard to student preference?  Are you a discussion leader or do you have your own course?  Do you design your own courses, or are the courses pre-designed to different extents? Do you teach only composition, or also literature?  

 

Here's why this might be key.  If you have the opportunity to design your own courses, then you can try to incorporate at least some of your interests into the syllabi, making teaching potentially much more productive to you.  Same with if they give you options. You can choose to TA courses that will at least in some way help your own work.  

 

As someone said earlier, it's also important to learn how much support teachers and TA's are given at the school.  How much training?  

[DramaDuck]

Hello all!

 

First, I know there's a "Decisions" forum already, but to be honest... I've looked through the topics and responses and was both simultaneously annoyed at how unhelpful some of the people are and horrified at how malicious others were. I hope you all don't mind that I start this topic here because I think, as English majors, we have a lot of things that are important to consider since our stipends tend to be on the lowest end of the spectrum and so forth.

 

I just wondered what criteria you all feel is important in deciding between schools. I didn't apply to any place I wouldn't want to live or where there weren't people I wanted to work with. So, what are you all using as a metric to help you decide? If you have a top choice, how did it get there for you?

 

I'm trying to use placement ratings and cost of living/stipend as my main deciders, but it's proving to be difficult. Sort of like, apples and oranges, in my case. Any other suggestions about what to use in order to make the best decision?

 

I haven't been accepted anywhere yet *crosses fingers*, but I did talk to some alum from programs I applied and learned something from their experience. 

 

At the open house, she had suggested to freshen up my knowledge of my POIs work and talk with them about. She said it helped give her a feel for the professors and department. She also had a choice between two schools, and at one school, her top choice, she learned about some drama regarding her POIs, and that kinda turned her away from that school. In addition to the factors you mentioned, I hear a lot that you have to feel at home and supported in your program because that's how you thrive and endure the isolation that comes with the territory after course work.

 

I hope this helps.  

[__________________________]

All wonderful advice.  NowMoreSerious, I have been quietly absorbing and sincerely appreciating all the advice you give on this forum.

 

I'm wondering if people know anything about the etiquette regarding asking questions about funding packages.  I recently got my funding offer from the University of Chicago, and it's really quite generous, but I'm not sure about asking certain questions.  The stipend is plenty generous and due to start in the Fall quarter (late September), but, should I attend there, I would also really like to be able to take a language course in their summer language immersion program.  I can't afford it with my current income/debts/other financial obligations, but one of my POI's mentioned that one or two of the students she wants to introduce me to during the visitation days (from another department) took language courses the summer began they started their programs.  Would it be uncouth to ask about that via email so soon after getting my funding offer (which came last night), or should I just wait until I visit and ask current students about it?

 

I would also be curious to hear tips on where to poke around and who is the appropriate person to ask about details like placement -- particularly what NowMoreSerious refers to when he advises to "Look at the job placement in your field, and from the dissertations that were advised by the professors you might be working with."  UChicago is particularly vague about their placement on their website, just giving lists of recent placements without any further data -- is this sort of information usually collated somewhere, or is it more of a matter of gathering the information yourself through talking to lots of people?

 

So many little things I worry about and don't know about -- I've been accepted to one of my "dream" programs, but I feel so ignorant and humbled asking questions a lot of the time.  This is all so new to me -- I don't know anyone else personally attending a PhD program, and no one's ever gone to graduate school in my family... I just feel like I got extremely lucky and fortunate to get such an offer and don't know how to ask these sorts of questions without feeling ungrateful...

 

Thanks!

[ProfLorax]

To MM and all others in this situation: it's entirely appropriate to ask any and all questions at any point in the decision-making process. I suggest asking the DGS or whoever you've been communicating with the most (perhaps a poi).

This is critical to realize: after you receive your first acceptance, you are in a position of power. Own it! Ask your questions directly. Negotiate your package. We are all rhetorically savvy; trust that you know how to best advocate for yourself in a respectful and convincing way.

And specifically to MM: both of your concerns are valid. Your DGS has been asked about language training funding and placement rates several times in their career.

Lastly, enjoy this brief period where you have some power!

[allplaideverything]

All of the advice in here is so great, but I'm still freaking out! I'm overjoyed to be accepted to two programs I thought would be excellent fits for me & my interests, but I feel like there's no way to choose between them! One is ranked higher, but the other has hired some serious rockstars in the past few years! One is close to my tattoo artist and the other is close to a person I run a chapbook press with! One is stronger in my specific field and the other is stronger in my more general interests! I'm in love with both of them! Ahhh!!

[__________________________]

Out of upvotes, but thank

 

To MM and all others in this situation: it's entirely appropriate to ask any and all questions at any point in the decision-making process. I suggest asking the DGS or whoever you've been communicating with the most (perhaps a poi).

This is critical to realize: after you receive your first acceptance, you are in a position of power. Own it! Ask your questions directly. Negotiate your package. We are all rhetorically savvy; trust that you know how to best advocate for yourself in a respectful and convincing way.

And specifically to MM: both of your concerns are valid. Your DGS has been asked about language training funding and placement rates several times in their career.

Lastly, enjoy this brief period where you have some power!

 

Out of upvotes, but thank you so much, proflorax.  I guess I still haven't gotten over the initial awe of getting in and need to just ask directly.  

[NowMoreSerious]

All of the advice in here is so great, but I'm still freaking out! I'm overjoyed to be accepted to two programs I thought would be excellent fits for me & my interests, but I feel like there's no way to choose between them! One is ranked higher, but the other has hired some serious rockstars in the past few years! One is close to my tattoo artist and the other is close to a person I run a chapbook press with! One is stronger in my specific field and the other is stronger in my more general interests! I'm in love with both of them! Ahhh!!

 

You obviously may not be done with acceptances yet, so don't think too hard.  Two great choices already though.  

[CarolineNC]

All of the advice in here is so great, but I'm still freaking out! I'm overjoyed to be accepted to two programs I thought would be excellent fits for me & my interests, but I feel like there's no way to choose between them! One is ranked higher, but the other has hired some serious rockstars in the past few years! One is close to my tattoo artist and the other is close to a person I run a chapbook press with! One is stronger in my specific field and the other is stronger in my more general interests! I'm in love with both of them! Ahhh!!

Go visit both! And then decide on Davis ;) we could be friends!

[fancypants09]

All wonderful advice.  NowMoreSerious, I have been quietly absorbing and sincerely appreciating all the advice you give on this forum.

 

I'm wondering if people know anything about the etiquette regarding asking questions about funding packages.  I recently got my funding offer from the University of Chicago, and it's really quite generous, but I'm not sure about asking certain questions.  The stipend is plenty generous and due to start in the Fall quarter (late September), but, should I attend there, I would also really like to be able to take a language course in their summer language immersion program.  I can't afford it with my current income/debts/other financial obligations, but one of my POI's mentioned that one or two of the students she wants to introduce me to during the visitation days (from another department) took language courses the summer began they started their programs.  Would it be uncouth to ask about that via email so soon after getting my funding offer (which came last night), or should I just wait until I visit and ask current students about it?

 

I would also be curious to hear tips on where to poke around and who is the appropriate person to ask about details like placement -- particularly what NowMoreSerious refers to when he advises to "Look at the job placement in your field, and from the dissertations that were advised by the professors you might be working with."  UChicago is particularly vague about their placement on their website, just giving lists of recent placements without any further data -- is this sort of information usually collated somewhere, or is it more of a matter of gathering the information yourself through talking to lots of people?

 

So many little things I worry about and don't know about -- I've been accepted to one of my "dream" programs, but I feel so ignorant and humbled asking questions a lot of the time.  This is all so new to me -- I don't know anyone else personally attending a PhD program, and no one's ever gone to graduate school in my family... I just feel like I got extremely lucky and fortunate to get such an offer and don't know how to ask these sorts of questions without feeling ungrateful...

 

Thanks!

 

Totally on the same boat with you asking funding questions, MM. I have a generous offer from UCLA but I do have a few questions I wanted to ask RE: funding and was wondering to whom I should be directing these questions and when. 

 

To MM and all others in this situation: it's entirely appropriate to ask any and all questions at any point in the decision-making process. I suggest asking the DGS or whoever you've been communicating with the most (perhaps a poi).

This is critical to realize: after you receive your first acceptance, you are in a position of power. Own it! Ask your questions directly. Negotiate your package. We are all rhetorically savvy; trust that you know how to best advocate for yourself in a respectful and convincing way.

And specifically to MM: both of your concerns are valid. Your DGS has been asked about language training funding and placement rates several times in their career.

Lastly, enjoy this brief period where you have some power!

 

Thank you for this, proflorax! It's so difficult to step up and really own this glorious position of being the powerful, newly admitted student. But I was able to negotiate costs that I would incur for visiting, which I think was a good first step in talking finances with the department. 

[hypervodka]

I was able to negotiate costs that I would incur for visiting, which I think was a good first step in talking finances with the department.

Oh, good. I saw how little base reimbursement they were giving to internationals and I just thought, "...how?"

[kurayamino]

Totally on the same boat with you asking funding questions, MM. I have a generous offer from UCLA but I do have a few questions I wanted to ask RE: funding and was wondering to whom I should be directing these questions and when. 

 

 

I had questions about funding with UCLA too so I directed my questions to both Helen Deutsch and Mike Lambert. They were both really open to answering what I had to say. I then asked my POI some things like, "Do students seem to struggle financially" and so forth to get an advisers perspective. Everything they told me, from additional funding available through application and how other students get additional fellowship years was very helpful and comforting.

[unræd]

I then asked my POI some things like, "Do students seem to struggle financially" and so forth to get an advisers perspective.

 

This is also a good thing to ask current grad students, as well--the ones I've contacted at the schools I've been admitted to have been very upfront about cost of living and what it's like to live on a given package in a given city.