Ivy League vs. Others

[Meep_Meep]

I'm having a very hard time trying to figure out the best place for me between Columbia or WashU. I loved both schools when I visited, but really could see myself going to WashU. Both schools are highly ranked and have researchers I'd be interested in working with, but I prefer the city of St. Louis to New York. The thing that I want some opinions on, however, is how much does the name of the school matter? My PI keeps telling me that going to Columbia is my best bet, as they are Ivy League, have a lot of famous PIs, and a lot of name recognition. However, my advisor tells me that the training I will get at WashU is just as good if not better than at Columbia. What do you think--is the Ivy League name that important? Or will I still have a decent future if I go to WashU?

[gliaful]

I've heard that doing a postdoc at an Ivy will help your future more than doing your graduate studies at an Ivy. So I wouldn't stress about it too much -- WashU is a great school, and I'm sure when it comes time to look for a postdoc, your professors at WashU will likely have connections to faculty at Ivy League schools. It sounds like you think you'd be happier in St. Louis, so I would tend towards WashU.

[glow_gene]

So uh...I'm biased...but I did want to throw in my 2 cents. I turned down several "big" name schools to go to WashU because I felt my training here would be better and more well-rounded than at the other schools. I also felt I had a better general research fit with WashU and I loved St. Louis. 

 

When I brought this question up to my advisors, they all told me that I should go to WashU. When I spoke to people outside my field, they all told me I should pick a school with a bigger name. I struggled with the decision for a while because name recognition is not unimportant but I just felt so at home at WashU and so excited about the science being done. I ended up listening to my gut and my advisors and I'm very happy here. 

 

That said, my experience/interests etc aren't yours. I also haven't tried to get a job after graduating from WashU vs an Ivy league but I've watched the students around me do very well in that respect so I'm not too worried when my time comes. My parents still call me from time to time and ask me if I'm "sure it's not too late to go to Hopkins and switch to an MD program?" but that's the worst problem I have had with my decision. 

 

Anyway, please feel free to message me if you have any questions about WashU or making this decision. Obviously I would love for you to come here, but more importantly you need to find the right place for you and your career. 

 

~glow

[username1824]

WashU is very well respected in biology. In my (perhaps naive) opinion, I feel that WashU and Columbia are equals in biological research. I don't think you would get a huge advantage from name recognition by going to Columbia

[Meep_Meep]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I was and definitely still am leaning heavily toward WashU, I felt so happy there and could see myself going. I guess that I just need other people to tell me that it is okay to go with my gut feeling and that I am not going to die if I don't go to Columbia (as my PI indicates...)

[ballwera]

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I was and definitely still am leaning heavily toward WashU, I felt so happy there and could see myself going. I guess that I just need other people to tell me that it is okay to go with my gut feeling and that I am not going to die if I don't go to Columbia (as my PI indicates...)

 

Go with research fit. Plus your stipend will go a hell of a lot farther in St. Louis than Manhattan haha. In all honesty though, WashU is on par ( if not better ) than the ivy league schools . You have to remember too, that what Academia considers to be a "big name" is very different than what a layman does. 

[poweredbycoldfusion]

You have to remember too, that what Academia considers to be a "big name" is very different than what a layman does. 

^This. Don't take advice on academia from people who aren't in academia...and sometimes academics aren't sure how the system works.     Some of the best departments are at what some would consider 'not good' state schools. If you liked the city/area of St. Louis, there's no reason not to go.

Edited February 25, 2015 by poweredbycoldfusion

[Appsitude]

I agree with everyone else - WashU is definitely on the same level as Columbia. Research fit + finding a place where you could be happy is 100x more important than the name of the school you attend (or whether it is an Ivy or not). It sounds like WashU would be perfect for you!

[glow_gene]

Go with research fit. Plus your stipend will go a hell of a lot farther in St. Louis than Manhattan haha. In all honesty though, WashU is on par ( if not better ) than the ivy league schools . You have to remember too, that what Academia considers to be a "big name" is very different than what a layman does. 

 

^^^ For the record, I really wanted to say this as well.

[Meep_Meep]

Thank you to everyone for the support, I am 99% sure that I'll be attending WashU, I am so excited

[expandyourmind]

just came here to agree with everyone else! I was struggling with the same issue... either columbia or uchicago.

I mean, columbia is columbia, right? I found myself trying to convince myself to go for the columbia name, looking pretty hard for POI that i would be interested in working with, and trying to see myself in morningside/washington heights. but the fit wasn't there and it was VERY apparent. 

but with uchicago i just felt that the fit was PERFECT, they seemed like it was the all around better choice for my training. during the interview process i was excited about the research and the environment, it's just that the whole columbia "name" thing still got me! i was able to meet with the faculty again just to make sure i wasn't crazy about how i felt on the first interview. i definitely had the "gut feeling" moment on the first interview, and going there a second time only solidified my decision. I ended up choosing UChicago so I strongly advice to go with your gut and where you feel like its perfect!

[BeakerBreaker]

I had this same problem (Ivy League vs. WashU), partially because I enjoyed my experience at Dartmouth enough to seriously consider it.

 

I realized that most of the pressure I felt to attend one of the Ivies that had accepted me came from society's perception/name recognition of the schools.  Much of this is based on their undergraduate record.  In the end, what matters most is whether or not you enjoy the environment, will receive a good education, and what people in the field think about the school.

 

There were so many people outside of science who told me I was nuts to attend WashU, a school they hadn't heard of.  Anyone who knows anything knows that WashU, U of Chicago, UNC-Chapel Hill, Scripps, Cold Spring Harbor, UTSW, etc etc etc are all excellent (and often better than some Ivies, for some programs), despite not being as well known.

 

At the end of the day, you'll be able to tell anyone who is stuck on Ivy name recognition that you turned down Columbia for a better school/fit, which will speak both to your ability to get into good schools, as well as to the quality of the program you picked.

 

WashU is a really solid school, more or less on the same level as any top tier program. I wouldn't let name recognition factor into the decision, because employers will know full well that you received a good education.

 

Edit: basically what everyone else has said; this is just my experience to add to the pile

Edited February 26, 2015 by BeakerBreaker

[Meep_Meep]

This website is so great, all of you have helped me feel so much more confident in my decision. Now all I have to do is stand up to my PI and tell him that I don't care that he thinks Columbia is better, I want to go to WashU!