Once more?

[exaznable]

Well, it seems to me that most of schools have released their results. so it's time to think of next plan, especially for someone who is not satisfied with current placement like myself (only a few applicants may be satisfied with their results though, I guess).

 

I applied to 15 schools from one of top MA programs, and got an admission from 30s ranked program with funding (it was my last choice). It's obviously a good program, but I am inclined to try one more time. I may go there and seek to transfer, or decline their offer and spend one year just preparing applications.

 

1) But should I? There is something I can't change. I can improve my GRE and write a better writing sample, but I can't change my grades. And my undergraduate grades are pretty bad (3.73 in 4.5 scale, with a D in English class! I am an international student). I thought that it wouldn't be a problem, because my undergraduate major was not philosophy and I didn't take any philosophy class, I got another master's degree in education three years ago with very good grades (over 3.9/4.0) and grades here are also pretty good (over 3.9/4.0). Is there any idea as to how much my undergraduate grades had a negative effect on my application? I looked up Ian's philosophy admission survey and found that only three persons who have grades below 3.80 (between 3.60-79) got into top 10 programs in 2013. My undergraduate grades would be 3.4ish depending on how you calculate, so it may be that I will never get into top programs or so whatsoever. (But it was not the only problem, i guess. my GRE writing score is also very bad (167/166/3.0). I just thought that no philosophers would take GRE writing section seriously, but combined with my weak grades, it could be a matter. But at least I can improve my GRE or writing sample if I will take one more shot!)

 

2) Is it crazy if I turn down the offer? I know that many people seek to transfer after getting into a program, and many of them are successful. My worry is that since I will have to try to get accustomed to a new environment, I may not have enough time to prepare my application. I think first year is usually the most difficult time to follow. I also don't want to spend my important first year in PhD program focusing other than the program itself.

 

If you have any thought on these matters, I will appreciate it!

Edited March 11, 2015 by exaznable

[atlremix]

I would say go for the funded offer, but that is just my personal opinion. I have had a really difficult time dealing with the challenges of the application cycle. I am a planner, so having things uncertain and playing the waiting game would just be too tough for me to go through all over again. No way I would put myself through that again if I already had an offer at a school that I liked enough to apply to in the first place.

 

My thought is that if you did hate the program, you could repeat the application process and transfer. I understand that would be time consuming to reapply in the midst of your first year in a program, but who knows? You may find yourself liking the program much more than you thought. Have you visited the program? If you could give us some insight as to why (other than ranking) this program was your last choice, we may be able to help more.

[qualiafreak]

I would also say go with the funded offer. You could always apply out, and you might improve your application by having more Philosophy courses with high marks.

[sidebysondheim]

I'd honestly take the funded offer as well. That advice might change if there were more clear information (which Philosophy MA? What PhD programs? What are your areas of interest? etc) but it sounds like you're trying to keep some level of anonymity. 

 

 

(Also, I doubt this is relevant but: I wouldn't be surprised—and this is basically blind conjecture—if admissions committees weighed your education masters less than the GRE. They are not generally known for their rigor.)

[exaznable]

I would say go for the funded offer, but that is just my personal opinion. I have had a really difficult time dealing with the challenges of the application cycle. I am a planner, so having things uncertain and playing the waiting game would just be too tough for me to go through all over again. No way I would put myself through that again if I already had an offer at a school that I liked enough to apply to in the first place.

 

My thought is that if you did hate the program, you could repeat the application process and transfer. I understand that would be time consuming to reapply in the midst of your first year in a program, but who knows? You may find yourself liking the program much more than you thought. Have you visited the program? If you could give us some insight as to why (other than ranking) this program was your last choice, we may be able to help more.

 

Thanks for this response! Yes, I think I would go the funded offer in any case. I've not visited yet, but I plan to do so. Currently, I mostly concern about my first question as to whether I can make a better result, and if so, what I should do since now.

 

 

I would also say go with the funded offer. You could always apply out, and you might improve your application by having more Philosophy courses with high marks.

 

As I said, you may be right on this. I will have to consider more seriously. Thanks anyway!

[philstudent1991]

Ya, if it were me I could see myself beating myself up over it later if I let the offer go by. Go see if you like it, apply out if you don't. You will develop a lot more as an applicant at a phd program than you would outside of philosophy, or whatever you planned on doing. And, of course, there's a chance that you might like the program! I say go for it. 

[exaznable]

Thanks for all these responses! Well, I think I have to edit my original post, because I didn't decide yet whether or not I should prepare application one more time (my first question). I don't need to decline the offer if I decide not to try one more time. But because preparing GRE and writing sample is a time-consuming process, I would like to prepare as soon as possible if it is possible that I will make a better placement. Thank you guys though. 

[Sarp1]

You may be already aware of this, but in terms of aiming for the top 10, consider:

 

http://schwitzsplinters.blogspot.com/2011/10/sorry-cal-state-students-no-princeton.html

Edited March 11, 2015 by Sarp1

[surlefil]

I think taking the GRE again would be a waste of time and money. Your scores are really very good, and I don't think anyone takes the AWA section very seriously. Accepting your offer would give you the opportunity to have "new" grades, and if you don't like the program, you could always transfer with an updated GPA and a better writing sample. 

[sidebysondheim]

I think taking the GRE again would be a waste of time and money. Your scores are really very good, and I don't think anyone takes the AWA section very seriously. Accepting your offer would give you the opportunity to have "new" grades, and if you don't like the program, you could always transfer with an updated GPA and a better writing sample. 

 

What's the evidence that adcoms don't take the AWA seriously? I was given the advice that AWA is the most important/relevant section on the GRE (specifically for philosophy) AND that it is the least relevant/considered section. 

[exaznable]

I think taking the GRE again would be a waste of time and money. Your scores are really very good, and I don't think anyone takes the AWA section very seriously. Accepting your offer would give you the opportunity to have "new" grades, and if you don't like the program, you could always transfer with an updated GPA and a better writing sample. 

 

 

What's the evidence that adcoms don't take the AWA seriously? I was given the advice that AWA is the most important/relevant section on the GRE (specifically for philosophy) AND that it is the least relevant/considered section. 

 

I think the truth is just that different commitee members have different views toward GRE. I don't think my GRE score was a BIG problem, but it is enough to give an alarming signal. 

[surlefil]

What's the evidence that adcoms don't take the AWA seriously? I was given the advice that AWA is the most important/relevant section on the GRE (specifically for philosophy) AND that it is the least relevant/considered section. 

You are sending a writing sample and a statement of purpose that reflect your writing abilities much better. On the other hand, I was told by professors and applicants (who had other opinions from other professors) that V/Q scores were important, but that the AWA section wasn’t taken so seriously. I’m just saying that I think it is absolutely impossible to be rejected from a program because of your score in the AWA section.

 

I think the truth is just that different commitee members have different views toward GRE. I don't think my GRE score was a BIG problem, but it is enough to give an alarming signal. 

I agree, but taking the GRE consumes a lot of time and energy (at least that was my case) and I believe working on writing sample and sop is far more important.

[perpetuavix]

What's the evidence that adcoms don't take the AWA seriously? I was given the advice that AWA is the most important/relevant section on the GRE (specifically for philosophy) AND that it is the least relevant/considered section. 

I would be very surprised if a department thought the AWA was the most important section. It rewards a very specific type of writing that doesn't correlate with good philosophy writing. You can score well by first, writing a lot, then making sure you use varied vocabulary and sentence structure/length. I'm sure some philosophers write like that, but I'm also sure we've all read a piece that uses a precisely defined word to the point of excess. I've also heard at least one DGS say the writing score doesn't matter. 

 

OP, why did you apply somewhere where it sounds like you knew you wouldn't be interested in their offer? I know that everyone is encouraged to apply widely, but why spend the money and time filling out an application at a place you wouldn't want to go? Or are you just disappointed that you didn't get in anywhere else?

I agree with the consensus that it would be crazy to turn down a funded offer. But if you really think you cannot be happy there and you can improve your materials for next year, maybe you should turn them down. 

[exaznable]

 

 

OP, why did you apply somewhere where it sounds like you knew you wouldn't be interested in their offer? I know that everyone is encouraged to apply widely, but why spend the money and time filling out an application at a place you wouldn't want to go? Or are you just disappointed that you didn't get in anywhere else?

I agree with the consensus that it would be crazy to turn down a funded offer. But if you really think you cannot be happy there and you can improve your materials for next year, maybe you should turn them down. 

 

 

Thanks for this response! As I mentioned, I didn't yet decide whether or not I try one more time. If I will try once more, I will consider all possibilities including declining the offer. I will choose what seems to me the best way to get a better placement, and it seems that everyone thus far thinks that going to a PhD program is a better choice not only for safety but for getting a better chance. My current worry is just whether or not I can make a better placement. Well, who knows.. But I have to consider seriously, because I will have to give up many things (time and money..) for preparing PhD applications again.

 

As to whether why I did apply to somewhere I am not interested in, I don't want to defend myself. I thought that I have to put some lower-ranked schools, schools that nevertheless are decent with respect to my interests. But sometimes, I can know myself only after things happen..

Edited March 11, 2015 by exaznable

[surlefil]

I will choose what seems to me the best way to get a better placement, and it seems that everyone thus far thinks that going to a PhD program is a better choice not only for safety but for getting a better chance.

I would consider, though, that it might not be a good option to accept the offer if you really don’t like the program and already know you will transfer after a year. See this:

[atlremix]

I think that you should think seriously about your long term career goals. If a Ph.D. is what you need to attain those goals, then it is worth noting that this may be your only offer.

 

I don't mean to appear negative or pessimistic about your prospects, but it is possible that even in reapplying, you may not have any offers at all in the next cycle. Considering the uncertainty, I would accept the offer that you do already have in hand if your future career goals involve having a Ph.D.

Edited March 11, 2015 by atlremix

[herenowagain]

I think if someone is ever willing to pay you to do philosophy (and give you a PhD to boot), you should take the offer.

[overoverover]

I'll chime in.

I'm someone who got into a PhD program, accepted the offer, and attempted to transfer because some key faculty left. It's really hard. I've definitely improved dramatically in two years, and yet I still got basically shut out (I was told by UCLA that it was "possible but not likely" that I'd get an offer before April 15, and I'm still waiting on one other school, but I've received 9 rejections). This is partly to say that, even if you improve a lot in a year (or 6 months before the next applications), there's no guarantee that you'll get in anywhere, even the place that accepted you this year.

I'd say accept the offer, then see if you really want to transfer after a year or two. There's also a chance you'll love the program and won't want to leave. 

[exaznable]

I'll chime in.

I'm someone who got into a PhD program, accepted the offer, and attempted to transfer because some key faculty left. It's really hard. I've definitely improved dramatically in two years, and yet I still got basically shut out (I was told by UCLA that it was "possible but not likely" that I'd get an offer before April 15, and I'm still waiting on one other school, but I've received 9 rejections). This is partly to say that, even if you improve a lot in a year (or 6 months before the next applications), there's no guarantee that you'll get in anywhere, even the place that accepted you this year.

I'd say accept the offer, then see if you really want to transfer after a year or two. There's also a chance you'll love the program and won't want to leave. 

 

Thanks for this answer. Yeah, it's hard! But I don't think that going to a PhD program with a plan to transfer soon or later is a good idea. If I accept the offer, that will mean that I will give up to apply for next application season for now and try to be satisfied with the program. Maybe my mind will be changed and fail to be satisfied with the program, but then I can think of that at that time. 

 

Your case is different, because it seems to me you have an actual reason to transfer. But it is really good information for me! Thanks for letting me know your case. 

 

 

I think that you should think seriously about your long term career goals. If a Ph.D. is what you need to attain those goals, then it is worth noting that this may be your only offer.

 

I don't mean to appear negative or pessimistic about your prospects, but it is possible that even in reapplying, you may not have any offers at all in the next cycle. Considering the uncertainty, I would accept the offer that you do already have in hand if your future career goals involve having a Ph.D.

 

Good point! This is good time to think of myself, actually. 

I am aware that maybe in this year I was lucky to get an acceptance from a ranked program. I will discuss with my professors and friends and you guys about my realistic prospect too. The problem is that the process is really obscure, so no one can exactly measure one's prospect. But I believe that the process is not that really obscure, although luck really matters too.

[sar1906]

So you're thinking about re-applying to get into a higher-ranked program?    Could you live with yourself if you abandon this position and end up getting shut-out next year? 

[exaznable]

So you're thinking about re-applying to get into a higher-ranked program?    Could you live with yourself if you abandon this position and end up getting shut-out next year? 

 

That's right. Well... good question. I am not ready to answer it, but I must think of it. 

[exaznable]

I would consider, though, that it might not be a good option to accept the offer if you really don’t like the program and already know you will transfer after a year. See this:

 

For now, I think that it is not a good idea to go to PhD program with a plan to transfer next year. But obviously it is more reasonable choice than not to accept the offer.