Your thoughts on where to accept?

[jeremy_13]

starting a new thread for this in case anyone else would like to ask this question!

 

I'm looking for some blunt advice/thoughts on which of my offers I should accept. I know better than to take any advice I get on the internet too seriously, and also know that many factors I can't express on here ought to be given a lot of weight. So I promise to take anything you say with many a grain of salt. Nonetheless, at this stage I'm still very unsure of where to go, and I would appreciate hearing what others have to say on the matter.

 

I'm accepted at: UConn, Syracuse, and the London School of Economics (LSE), all of these with full funding.

     The LSE program is 4 years, and teaching requirements for 3 of those years. The teaching requirements at Syracuse and UConn are for  

     every year.

 

I'm on the waitlist at: UPenn and CUNY.

 

My interests are in ethics and metaphysics.

 

I'm especially curious if anyone has thoughts on the nature of accepting the LSE offer over the US ones, but I'd love any opinions anyone has on the other schools I've mentioned. Which would you accept?

 

Thanks so much in advance!

Edited March 17, 2015 by jeremy_13

[DontFly]

I heard that LSE is one of those places where you come in, and you write, and that's it. There's very little course requirement. I considered applying there but decided against it, because I know I'm not ready to start writing. I value taking courses a lot. That said, if you're really pulled together and are ready to write, then LSE is probably a good place to save some years and graduate sooner.

[Gnothi_Seauton]

Given your interests, I would accept Penn if you get in off the waitlist and the LSE otherwise (with one caveat).  I did an MSc at the LSE, so I can say with confidence that it is a fun place to be.  I'm not sure what the funding package looks like, but just keep in mind that London is very expensive, so your living arrangements won't be great for your time there.  Not sure how picky you are about such things.  But otherwise London is an amazing place to be.  

 

Here's the caveat:  You might have trouble finding a job outside of the UK/Europe with a Ph.D. in philosophy from the LSE.  It's not unprecedented, but in general a Ph.D. from anywhere in the UK other than Oxford doesn't travel very well.  

 

Syracuse is probably technically the best choice for your interests, but its placement record isn't great.  UConn is definitely an up-and-coming program, but not much going on in either ethics or metaphysics.  

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

I'm glad this thread was started! I am wondering the same thing between USF and Temple. Is there really a distinction in reputation between these two PhD programs? I love the fact that USF has Manning- he appears to be practically a Donald Davidson scholar. They also have Lee Braver, who has the unique specialization of studying the continental/analytic divide and the topic of realism. Their phil of mind prof Levine has also written a lot on Kuhn who is a favorite of mine. Now Temple: Miriam Solomon- I talked with her - she is absolutely delightful (and someone I know has worked with her and loves her too) - she is a Quine expert, done extensive work in epistemology and feminist philosophy of science. In philosophy of mind they have Gerald Vision. I know they have one other person there, Philip Atkins, who specializes in epistemology and phil of language, but I don't know a thing about him. Both schools seem totally even on continental.

 

I am so torn- as far as funding I have been guaranteed funding by both schools for a minimum of 4 years (details of how much in stipend to come over the next few weeks, but estimates appear to be about even). My interests are lphilosophy of mind, late 20th century analytic in philosophy of language and science (Davidson, Putnam and Quine are my favorites), epistemology, and 19th century continental philosophy. ANY help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

[Establishment]

I would nope the fuck away from Temple. All they have regarding their placement record is a blurb and no real data. ("At present there are over 35 Temple Ph.D.s teaching in universities around the world...")

[Establishment]

Syracuse the last two years is looking scary, so you might want to ask people there what's going on. But on the whole, they (and Connecticut too) seem to be getting a number of VAP's and tenure track positions in philosophy that the LSE isn't. I've also heard the outside (and even still from) Oxford, employment prospects from U.K. institutions isn't as strong as prospects from American ones.

[qualiafreak]

Tough! I agree with Gnothi - UPenn, or LSE. I don't have firsthand experience or information, this is really just my gut reaction. Also I'm trying not to be biased, because I am wait listed at UConn, but it was never my first choice and I don't even know if I'll accept if offered. Just thought I'd mention the possible bias so you can take my opinion for what it's worth Are you able to visit any campuses? I feel like visits will be the deciding factor at least for me, since all my pros/cons lists leave me more unsure than before!

[Nastasya_Filippovna]

I wish I had some valuable input but I know nothing about LSE. I must ask though- do they actually teach metaphysics? I would, like others, say that UPenn would be the obvious first choice, and I honestly don't know how strong UConn is in ethics, but I would think that as far as metaphysics is concerned they would be a stellar choice. Their program appears to be growing in reputation too. 

And Establishment thank you- I too am very concerned about Temple's PR record as well.

[overoverover]

Seems to me that Syracuse is really good, fit-wise. But Establishment is right to raise some worries about that program. 

(N.B.: I'm waitlisted at UConn, and would almost definitely accept their offer if I get it, so keep that in mind)

[Duns Eith]

[content removed by author]

Edited March 18, 2015 by Turretin

[jeremy_13]

Just want to say thanks to everyone who's weighed in! In fact my own leaning has been Penn if I get in off the waitlist, and LSE otherwise, so it's really good to hear that corroborated.

 

@DontFly: I'm with you, and it's one of the main reasons I'm hesitant about LSE; much of the point of me doing a philosophy PhD is to get a deep and rounded philosophy education, and LSE seems like it can't offer that to the same degree as US programs.

 

@Gnothi: thanks for this. The funding package is pretty generous, so I think I'd be able to survive okay even in the hellishly expensive SE england. Any other thoughts about LSE? did you like your time there?

 

@qualiafreak: thanks for this! Unfortunately I can't visit any of the places--part of the reason I asked this question is that it's so hard to judge without doing so. In the end I'm just really happy to have offers at all--this whole process is such a drag--so wherever I end up I'll be happy, but I do wish I could visit to make it less of a blind decision. Everything I've learned about the UConn program is very positive, I have to say, I'll certainly let you know if I decline it!

 

@overoverover: Ill keep you posted. Really hope you get in somewhere, and UConn seems like a really great spot.

 

@Nastasya: Sorry to say I can't weigh in on yours, either. Good luck wherever you decide!

 

Thanks again to all. I'm curious too that no one's mentioned CUNY--is it because it doesn't fit with my interests? Or are there other reasons?If anyone has any further comments/thoughts/advice I'd appreciate anything. Such a hard decision to make, and so little to go on.

Edited March 19, 2015 by jeremy_13

[Gnothi_Seauton]

No other thoughts immediately spring to mind, but I enjoyed my time there immensely.  Feel free to message me if you have any questions.

[Guillaume]

I'm glad this thread was started! I am wondering the same thing between USF and Temple. Is there really a distinction in reputation between these two PhD programs? I love the fact that USF has Manning- he appears to be practically a Donald Davidson scholar. They also have Lee Braver, who has the unique specialization of studying the continental/analytic divide and the topic of realism. Their phil of mind prof Levine has also written a lot on Kuhn who is a favorite of mine. Now Temple: Miriam Solomon- I talked with her - she is absolutely delightful (and someone I know has worked with her and loves her too) - she is a Quine expert, done extensive work in epistemology and feminist philosophy of science. In philosophy of mind they have Gerald Vision. I know they have one other person there, Philip Atkins, who specializes in epistemology and phil of language, but I don't know a thing about him. Both schools seem totally even on continental.

 

I am so torn- as far as funding I have been guaranteed funding by both schools for a minimum of 4 years (details of how much in stipend to come over the next few weeks, but estimates appear to be about even). My interests are lphilosophy of mind, late 20th century analytic in philosophy of language and science (Davidson, Putnam and Quine are my favorites), epistemology, and 19th century continental philosophy. ANY help would be GREATLY appreciated!!

 

I sent you a PM about Temple.

[qualiafreak]

@qualiafreak: thanks for this! Unfortunately I can't visit any of the places--part of the reason I asked this question is that it's so hard to judge without doing so. In the end I'm just really happy to have offers at all--this whole process is such a drag--so wherever I end up I'll be happy, but I do wish I could visit to make it less of a blind decision. Everything I've learned about the UConn program is very positive, I have to say, I'll certainly let you know if I decline it!

That's too bad! It does seem pretty wild making a 5-7 year commitment somewhere without seeing it first, but I might have to do the same thing if I hear about one of my wait lists last minute. I've heard great things about UConn too. Based on your prospects I really think you can't go wrong. Deciding between programs is hard, but also one of the best problems you can have. Good luck!

[rednegativity]

MA decision to be made! Wondering if you guys could help.

 

I've received three funded MA offers, and I've narrowed it down to two: Georgia State vs Houston.

 

Now while Georgia State is ranked higher by Leiter and has better placements overall, many of those placements are outside of my AOI (metaphysics/philosophy of mind), which means great placements like Stanford and Michigan don't really apply to me. Within my AOI, and accounting for the larger population at GSU, Houston and GSU actually place equally well in top-30 programs. Additionally, Houston has placed two people at Princeton in the last three years, and GSU hasn't placed anyone at Princeton in the last six or seven years. But GSU has placed at Yale, and Houston never has.

 

Second consideration: Houston has much better funding. 12k/year at Houston vs 5k first year and 10k second year at GSU. Plus, the GSU TA requirements are insane (in the second year, teaching a whopping 5 sections of critical thinking), whereas Houston's is more relaxed (regular 10hr/week grading etc.) 

 

But..... GSU has a slightly better pedigree, which could make the difference in the end.

 

What do you guys think? For metaphysics/philosophy of mind, where would you go? Especially if you wanted to secure top-10 or top-20 placements?

[jjb919]

MA decision to be made! Wondering if you guys could help.

 

I've received three funded MA offers, and I've narrowed it down to two: Georgia State vs Houston.

 

Now while Georgia State is ranked higher by Leiter and has better placements overall, many of those placements are outside of my AOI (metaphysics/philosophy of mind), which means great placements like Stanford and Michigan don't really apply to me. Within my AOI, and accounting for the larger population at GSU, Houston and GSU actually place equally well in top-30 programs. Additionally, Houston has placed two people at Princeton in the last three years, and GSU hasn't placed anyone at Princeton in the last six or seven years. But GSU has placed at Yale, and Houston never has.

 

Second consideration: Houston has much better funding. 12k/year at Houston vs 5k first year and 10k second year at GSU. Plus, the GSU TA requirements are insane (in the second year, teaching a whopping 5 sections of critical thinking), whereas Houston's is more relaxed (regular 10hr/week grading etc.) 

 

But..... GSU has a slightly better pedigree, which could make the difference in the end.

 

What do you guys think? For metaphysics/philosophy of mind, where would you go? Especially if you wanted to secure top-10 or top-20 placements?

Given the placement in your AOI (which is more important than overall placement and pedigree) is nearly equal, I would say the difference in funding makes a much bigger difference. Go with the offer that carries more money and more relaxed TA requirements. Go with Houston.

[Griswald]

MA decision to be made! Wondering if you guys could help.

 

I've received three funded MA offers, and I've narrowed it down to two: Georgia State vs Houston.

 

Now while Georgia State is ranked higher by Leiter and has better placements overall, many of those placements are outside of my AOI (metaphysics/philosophy of mind), which means great placements like Stanford and Michigan don't really apply to me. Within my AOI, and accounting for the larger population at GSU, Houston and GSU actually place equally well in top-30 programs. Additionally, Houston has placed two people at Princeton in the last three years, and GSU hasn't placed anyone at Princeton in the last six or seven years. But GSU has placed at Yale, and Houston never has.

 

Second consideration: Houston has much better funding. 12k/year at Houston vs 5k first year and 10k second year at GSU. Plus, the GSU TA requirements are insane (in the second year, teaching a whopping 5 sections of critical thinking), whereas Houston's is more relaxed (regular 10hr/week grading etc.) 

 

But..... GSU has a slightly better pedigree, which could make the difference in the end.

 

What do you guys think? For metaphysics/philosophy of mind, where would you go? Especially if you wanted to secure top-10 or top-20 placements?

No decision you make at this point will "secure" you placement in a top PhD program, so you needn't worry about that. Also, I'm puzzled by your judgment that GSU's program doesn't fit your interests. It's well known that the program there is quite strong in philosophy of mind. Anyway, my own opinion is that you should allow for the possibility that your interests may change during your MA.

[qualiafreak]

I agree with jjb919. I do think that GSU is very good in mind, as aduh said, but I don't know much about Houston. If it is true that they are also renowned for mind and if it is true that they place to higher-ranks than GSU in that AOI and it is true that their funding offer is much greater, I say that seems like the obvious choice.

[philstudent1991]

 

 

Plus, the GSU TA requirements are insane (in the second year, teaching a whopping 5 sections of critical thinking), whereas Houston's is more relaxed (regular 10hr/week grading etc.) 

 

I'm not sure what you mean by insane. If you mean insane as in insanely good teaching preparation, then I agree. Ha, but no the concern over workload is a real one. My understanding, however, is that GSU students only take one or even 0 classes in the fall semester of their second year, and then something like one in their second semester. For the most part, the first year is coursework, the second year is teaching, thesis and phd apps. That would keep one busy, I would think, but doesn't seem unreasonable, and as I mentioned before, seems like awesome preparation for teaching. And of course, discovering you don't like teaching is a good thing to discover in an MA rather than a PhD, or if you don't go on, it will be nice to have had the chance to teach. Oh, and I think you can teach critical thinking or intro to philosophy depending on availability. The website has a lot of information. Good luck with your decision!

[Duns Eith]

Help me pick MA schools?

 

Texas Tech vs Western Michigan vs Ohio University

 

Each funded in a way that offsets cost of living and tuition, but WMU is the best financial offer (by over 2k).

 

AOIs: Early modern, metaphysics, epistemology -- specifically Berkeley and his context

 

OU - everyone does thesis

WMU - almost no one does thesis

TTU - mix of thesis and non-thesis

 

Placements are nearly identical.

 

I am feeling like the schools are identical enough that I can just choose preference, which would be WMU because (1) it is closer to home (both for my family and my wife's) and (2) it offers the best financial package.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Turretin

[philstudent1991]

 

 

Placements are nearly identical.

 

I am feeling like the schools are identical enough that I can just choose preference, which would be WMU because (1) it is closer to home (both for my family and my wife's) and (2) it offers the best financial package.

Seems like you have already made up your mind sounds like a great opportunity! 

[rednegativity]

Thanks everybody! But there's a new wrinkle in my plans!

I was just unexpectedly offered full funding to a PhD program. The school is unranked, and their placement isn't great, but it's a great fit for my interests. I also had a lovely phone conversation with a faculty member there. I would love the city/ student community/ additional fellowship opportunities /etc.

So... Unranked PhD where I would love the next 5 years of my life but maybe have trouble finding a job? Or top-5 MA program where I'd have to retake the GRE and spend an additional 2 years in school in the *hope* that I'd land a highly ranked offer in the future?

Really not sure about this.

[sidebysondheim]

Usually I'd say take the funded PhD, but it really does seem like you'd be able to do better than an unranked PhD with the MA.

[philstudent1991]

Thanks everybody! But there's a new wrinkle in my plans!

I was just unexpectedly offered full funding to a PhD program. The school is unranked, and their placement isn't great, but it's a great fit for my interests. I also had a lovely phone conversation with a faculty member there. I would love the city/ student community/ additional fellowship opportunities /etc.

So... Unranked PhD where I would love the next 5 years of my life but maybe have trouble finding a job? Or top-5 MA program where I'd have to retake the GRE and spend an additional 2 years in school in the *hope* that I'd land a highly ranked offer in the future?

Really not sure about this.

Why would you have to retake GRE? Is it expiring? 

 

Every circumstance is different but generally an unranked PhD is not the ticket to job success. Even the ranked but lower ranked ones don't have very good placement. Of course, top MAs are a roll of the dice too. Tough decision. 

[qualiafreak]

You may really need to think about your long term career trajectory. If you want to get a tenure track job as a Philosophy professor in an even mildly respected school, an unranked PhD is likely not going to get you there. A top MA might not either but, it might, if it helps you get into a well respected PhD. If you're open to someday teaching at a community college, maybe teaching outside philosophy, or doing something different, you might be able to make the case for going with the PhD if you love the program. If the unranked phd posts placement, look at in in depth and see if you would be happy where past students have ended up. If they don't post it, it might be worth asking about. If it feels like the perfect program for you of course take that into account, along with your overall goals and whether you believe it can get you there.

Edited March 29, 2015 by qualiafreak