Applying to PHD programs without much of a psych background

[hi everyone]

Hi,

 

I need some input and I thought this would be a good place to find it. Throughout my undergraduate career I was interested mainly in political science and psych, and had a tough time deciding which to major in. I eventually chose political science but I took several psych courses and did very well. I ended up graduating with the political science degree and until recently was planning to attend professional school in an area related to political science, having been accepted to multiple Ivys (e.g. Harvard and Columbia) and several other top programs in the U.S. and Canada.

 

However, after much thought and work experience I've realised that I would prefer to pursue a career in psychology, particularly in clinical or forensic psych. This leads me to ask whether I'd have a decent chance of being accepted into respectable PHD programs in the US/ Canada given my relative lack of a psychology background, and if not, what do you think I'd have to do to give me a good chance of getting into such programs?

 

 

Extra background:

 

-4.1 GPA in political science from a respectable university and top arts student in smaller college before that. No psych research.

 

-I took 9 psych courses (7 upper-level) and got an A+ in each of them, 100 percent in 4 of them, and was the top student in at least 6 of them, which also leads me to believe that I could get some decent letters of reccomendation, at least for someone without research experience. I was 2 courses away from getting a minor in psych but at the time I decided to pursue a different path and didn't think taking those courses, which were lower-year and similar to ones I had already done well in, was worth it.

 

-I am yet to take the GRE (it was a different test for the professional programs I applied to) but am doing very well in practice, tending to score 169-170 on verbal and 167-168 on quant. I have scored in the 99th percentile on every standardized test I've taken and I suspect that I'll be able to score in my practice range on test day.

 

-I recently turned 25 and will have a few years work experience (mainly in government and non-profits) if I start in 2016.

 

Thanks!

Edited May 21, 2015 by hi everyone

[TenaciousBushLeaper]

Do you have any research experience? If you expect to get into ivy league schools or any reputable program to work towards a PhD in psychology, you'll need some research experience. A program director at Yale had told me that a year of research experience is enough so long as everything else is in order (GRE, GPA, SOP, LORs)

Edited May 21, 2015 by TenaciousBushLeaper

[hi everyone]

Hi TBL,

 

I have no research experience in psychology and only a moderate amount in political science. I'd expect the elite programs like Harvard and Yale to be out for me, but I've wondered if the high GRE score I'm expecting and my GPA (especially in psych courses) would allow me to squeak into other respectable schools.

 

How do I get research experience given that I recently turned 25 and have been out of school for a few years?

Edited May 21, 2015 by hi everyone

[MastersHoping]

Psychology is not my field, but it seems to me, from an outsider's perspective, that you have more than adequate academic preparation. 

 

Just get some research experience, have some kick-ass SoP and letters and I would bet that you have a fighting chance at a lot of great places. 

[lxwllms]

You could volunteer in some psychology labs or try and get a lab tech/assistant job in a psych lab to get research experience.

[spunky]

You could volunteer in some psychology labs or try and get a lab tech/assistant job in a psych lab to get research experience.

 

 

THIS. research experience can make or break an application, particularly in competitive areas like clinical psych. 

[mb712]

What kind of forensic programs are you looking into? Would you prefer clinical or forensic?

Clinical is a beast of a field to get into even for people with extensive psych backgrounds. Not to discourage, just some honesty.

Either way, all of the research experience suggestions above are applicable.

[Jay's Brain]

Given your extremely strong academic background, the only thing, as pointed out by the posters above, is your lack of researching background in psychology. I do highly suggest you reach out and connect with researchers to start volunteering/working to amass that last bit that would make you an excellent candidate. As mentioned, clinical psychology is a tough and very competitive program. Really hone down what your research interests are, and why you're so resolute about choosing this field. You may want to speak with people in those fields, ask them for advice, and even ask if they are willing to take you on as a volunteer/research assistant.

I think this may also be of interest to you: http://www.howigotintostanford.com
The author of this website began his journey of wanting to pursue Social Psychology with a minimal background in psychology (like yourself), but an even less stellar GPA. He managed to attain quite a few research experiences simply from connecting and contacting professionals in academia, and in the end he got into Stanford.

 

So, if anything, this might be telling you that the same Ivy league schools that came calling for your back when you considered pursuing your Poli Sci degree might do the same after you establish yourself a little bit more in the field of psychology!

Hope this helps!

[quirkycase]

Like others have suggested, volunteering or working in a lab would be a good move. My BA is in psychology, and I was originally planning to go into clinical with the goal of working in forensic; however, I didn't have much of a research background either. So after I graduated, I applied for lab assistant positions and contacted faculty at every university within driving distance that had labs I was interested in to ask if they were taking RAs. I didn't get any of the paid positions, but I was able to volunteer in a forensic psychology lab for about two years.

[hi everyone]

Thanks for the responses everyone! Seems like I'll need to look into research opportunities before applying...

[_kita]

You also need to highly consider "why psychology." "What questions do I want to answer?" Going into a PhD program, they expect you to have a focused direction, letters of recommendation that highlight what your passionate about (not just that you excel academically, they see that in your transcript), and the professional experience to back it up (i.e. research experience and possibly volunteer/work experience).

 

You will make it past the first round, which is all about numbers. However, PhD psychology admissions may accept as little as 3-8 people in a given year. They're looking for the best fit not the best student. Work on that fit.

[hi everyone]

One more question---if I were to apply later this year after obtaining a research position would admissions committees likely consider my research experience to be whatever I have at the time of applying (i.e. a few months), or would they consider it to be how much reasearch I'd have at the start of the program (e.g. a year)?

 

Thanks again

[mb712]

One more question---if I were to apply later this year after obtaining a research position would admissions committees likely consider my research experience to be whatever I have at the time of applying (i.e. a few months), or would they consider it to be how much reasearch I'd have at the start of the program (e.g. a year)?

Thanks again

My suggestion would be to add whatever tasks you've done there to your CV and what you plan to do between applying & the end of your time there in your SOP.

[hi everyone]

Thanks!

 

Sorry to ask another question, but if I were able to arrange a research position within a month (overwhelmingly likely through volunteering), would it be worth applying this fall to programs with the expectation that I would continue in this position for the next year until the program starts? Or is that probably unlikely to be enough research to get me into a good school? I would prefer to apply this year if possible...

Edited May 23, 2015 by hi everyone

[spunky]

Thanks!

 

Sorry to ask another question, but if I were able to arrange a research position within a month (overwhelmingly likely through volunteering), would it be worth applying this fall to programs with the expectation that I would continue in this position for the next year until the program starts? Or is that probably unlikely to be enough research to get me into a good school? I would prefer to apply this year if possible...

 

this is a little bit vague because it depends on many things: which lab you're applying to work in, who is the PI, the area of study, your role within research, whether or not you get a publication out of it, etc...

 

like if you work in a nameless university that has a nameless lab and all you do is run participants well.. yeah, you're not gonna get much *oomph* on that CV of yours to get into a good school. but if you're working in a well-known lab with a well-known PI and you end up getting some sort of authorship in a published paper, i'm sure that would make you a really good candidate. 

 

just as  with most things in life, the answer to this one is a big *it depends*. although there is one sure thing here: having the experience of working in a lab is better than not having the experience, regardless of the lab/research/your role/etc. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by spunky

[lxwllms]

Thanks!

Sorry to ask another question, but if I were able to arrange a research position within a month (overwhelmingly likely through volunteering), would it be worth applying this fall to programs with the expectation that I would continue in this position for the next year until the program starts? Or is that probably unlikely to be enough research to get me into a good school? I would prefer to apply this year if possible...

Are you saying, starting research within June/July 2015, applying by December 2015 (likely less than 6mo research experience) and hoping they will look at your application and assume that because you wouldn't be starting a program until ~sept 2016, that you'd have over a year of experience?

That's possible but a gamble IMO for a program like clinical where it is so competitive. I disagree that you need to work in a well-known lab with a well-known PI. That isn't always "do-able". What's more important for your application IMO is that you have a good experience (not just running participants as previously stated) and that your experience is long enough to show that you know you want to stay in research. Which 6mos will likely not do for you, assuming the schools don't think about the length of your experience in the way you're hoping.

I agree that getting a paper will help your application, but again I don't think this is likely to happen in 6mos.

[hi everyone]

Yep, that's what I meant by that bit. I wasn't sure if the people in admissions would look at my experience for what it was or what it was likely to be by the time I started the program, and six months certainly isn't a lot of research expierence so I assume that I'd be too weak in that respect for most good schools to accept me.

 

I had a sense that clinical was tough to get into, but looking at the numbers now I didn't realise how selective it was!

Edited May 23, 2015 by hi everyone

[spunky]

That's possible but a gamble IMO for a program like clinical where it is so competitive. I disagree that you need to work in a well-known lab with a well-known PI. That isn't always "do-able". 

 

Uhm…. I think you’re misinterpreting what I said.  I never said that only people who are in well-known labs with well-known PIs will get into clinical programs. What I’m saying is that there is a big spectrum of possibilities in cases like this and each one can offset any potential negative consequences of others.  For example, if the OP got into Dr Kahneman’s lab from Princeton and ended up even with a conference paper where (s)he’s somewhere in the author list, I can guarantee you that nobody would care about only having 6 months of experience. The reputation of the PI and the lab would outweigh that. But if you can’t get into a place like that then yeah, sure, time starts to matter a little bit more.

 

That’s why I said it would be important to know more about the OP potential (and realistic) options to see whether 6 months could be enough or not. 

[Mastershaakti]

It seems like you are really eager to get into a program. Most of us come from that place, but deciding to which programs to apply or to apply at all is an enormous decision. Essentially, you're commiting 5-7 years of your life to this not including the prep and application years. It's not something you want to rush. Solid research experience not only demonstrates novice expertise but also that you understand the dynamics of the field and it is something you truly want to explore in graduate school. Also, top research-based psychology PhD programs have acceptance rates ranging from one to about ten percent, many of which are much lower than top medical or law schools. You want to approach the entire process as if there is no such thing as a safety school. It would be highly uncharacteristic of top programs to seek you out or fight for you to attend, because there are hundreds of qualified applicants from them to pick from. This is unlike many of the other social sciences or humanities where you churn out a perfect GPA and GRE and get into Harvard. Psychology is much more difficult than that.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Mastershaakti

[lxwllms]

Uhm…. I think you’re misinterpreting what I said. I never said that only people who are in well-known labs with well-known PIs will get into clinical programs. What I’m saying is that there is a big spectrum of possibilities in cases like this and each one can offset any potential negative consequences of others. For example, if the OP got into Dr Kahneman’s lab from Princeton and ended up even with a conference paper where (s)he’s somewhere in the author list, I can guarantee you that nobody would care about only having 6 months of experience. The reputation of the PI and the lab would outweigh that. But if you can’t get into a place like that then yeah, sure, time starts to matter a little bit more.

I don't think that's what you were saying so sorry if it came off that way. I agree that having that type of experience will off-set time.

I was simply giving my opinion that getting on a paper isn't likely to happen in 6 months, regardless of how well-known the PI is. It COULD happen, but I don't think it's wise for OP to bet that it will.

I think being in the lab for a long period of time would better OPs application in terms of experience obviously, but would also make sure OP knows this is a field they want to continue in. Pointing out that time is valuable. That's all.

[lxwllms]

Essentially, you're commiting 5-7 years of your life to this not including the prep and application years. It's not something you want to rush. Solid research experience not only demonstrates novice expertise but also that you understand the dynamics of the field and it is something you truly want to explore in graduate school.

Agree. This is along the lines of what I was trying to say.

[hi everyone]

Thank you to all who have responded. It's really helped give me perspective about my situation.

[Bubbala]

The other commenters covered quite a bit, but I want to add that it's important to have research experience not only to be competitive, but also to help you discover whether psychology research is something that you most definitely enjoy and want to commit 5-7 years (and perhaps your entire career) to. How can a person know that they like research without ever having done any? One might volunteer at a lab and find that the research process and manuscript preparation is tedious, boring, or just overall unenjoyable. A person should really know that s/he loves psychology research before committing so much time and energy to it. This may or may not be an option that you have considered, but completing a Master's degree before starting a PhD might be beneficial in solidifying your desire to pursue psychology research and filling any gaps in your psychology knowledge base. But getting involved in research might be enough for you, too.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Bubbala

[cagedbird77]

Just a bit of personal perspective, I graduated undergrad with a BS in biology and I wanted to pursue graduate studies in psychology. At my interview, they specifically asked me about my background and why I wanted to pursue psychology instead of biology. My advisor previously told me to be prepared to answer such a question so I had a good answer to give. Just be prepared to answer questions like these when you go on interviews! (I got into that psych grad program by the way!)