What would a safety school be for me?

[Ziz]

I know the concept of a 'safety school' - one you are fairly confident you will get into. However, not being from the States, I'm not all that familiar with the reputations of various schools and some places where I, a foreigner, would assume weren't highly ranked, turn out to be very well regarded (e.g. Ohio State - I had no idea!). So I'm trying to put together my list of schools to apply to and I'd like to include some safety schools, but I'm very much in the dark and was hoping you could help me out.

My Stats:

Applying to political theory

GPA: Roughly 3.7 overall, 3.85 in the last 2 years of undergrad from a well-known Canadian school that I"m not sure anyone in the States would have heard of.

Masters: From LSE, got a distinction which is the highest you can get, but I have no idea what the GPA equivalent of that is.

GRE: 710 verbal (98%); 720 quant (75%); 6 AW

I know a lot comes down to the writing sample, SOP and letters of recommendation, but as I am fairly confident about my writing sample (my dissertation which got the highest grade in my masters programme) and letters are good (I had previously been accepted at Oxford with the same letters), I'd just like a general idea of what my chances at American schools would be. It seems UK and Canadian programmes are much less competitive and as I've never applied to an American school before, I really don't know where to start.

[cheesethunder]

what Canadian school are you from?

also, what kind of scholarships are you applying for for the UK schools?

im in the same boat Canadian wanting to go to the US/UK

[Ziz]

what Canadian school are you from?

also, what kind of scholarships are you applying for for the UK schools?

im in the same boat Canadian wanting to go to the US/UK

I did my undergrad at Queen's.

I got full funding the last two times I applied to the UK so I didn't have to worry about external scholarships. But SSHRC is always a possibility, though I'm not sure I'll meet the deadline this year. There's also Bombardier and Commonwealth scholarships...

[cheesethunder]

wait what do you mean, you're reapplying to schools you rejected previously? are you applying for an MA or phd? or do you already have an MA?

full funding! there is hope for me then......i was looking at commonwealth, though i think its only for phd people and i thought SSHRC you could only take the phd one elsewhere......

im in the same boat as you with not knowing what a safety school is, for me im just doing carleton for phd cog sci

i used to have virginia and duke as safety schools then i realized theyre actually hard to get into!

i also have concordia/ ottawaU/ newbrunswick but thats for clinical psyc which are generally hard to get into/small programs so i don't consider them safety.

so yea i dont really have any safety schools =/

[Ziz]

wait what do you mean, you're reapplying to schools you rejected previously? are you applying for an MA or phd? or do you already have an MA?

full funding! there is hope for me then......i was looking at commonwealth, though i think its only for phd people and i thought SSHRC you could only take the phd one elsewhere......

im in the same boat as you with not knowing what a safety school is, for me im just doing carleton for phd cog sci

i used to have virginia and duke as safety schools then i realized theyre actually hard to get into!

i also have concordia/ ottawaU/ newbrunswick but thats for clinical psyc which are generally hard to get into/small programs so i don't consider them safety.

so yea i dont really have any safety schools =/

Yeah I have a masters from LSE and got into Oxford for the 2007 start for a PhD but realized for various reasons that it just wasn't the right time/thing for me at the time.

I don't know about the SSHRC masters rules, just that the PhD awards can be taken outside Canada - unlike OGS (if you're from Ontario)! I'm totallhy in the same boat - thought I had safeties until I found out they weren't safe at all!!

[JohnBom]

I think the whole concept of having a safety school is very problematic when applied to grad programs. In my opinion, there is no reason why anyone needs to be desperate to enroll into a doctoral program. If it doesn't work this year with any of your top choices, it might work next time.

[rising_star]

There's no such thing as safety schools, imo. You shouldn't apply anywhere where you wouldn't want to enroll. Now granted, you may learn more after applying or on a visit that makes you not want to go somewhere but you shouldn't spend money applying to some place that's a backup and/or that you don't think you'd be happy at.

[kdilks]

There's no such thing as safety schools, imo. You shouldn't apply anywhere where you wouldn't want to enroll. Now granted, you may learn more after applying or on a visit that makes you not want to go somewhere but you shouldn't spend money applying to some place that's a backup and/or that you don't think you'd be happy at.

Why does a safety school have to be one you wouldn't want to enroll at? It's just one that you're very confident you'll be admitted to. I think you'd be much better off applying to a wide range of schools on your first go and figuring out where you stand, as opposed to only applying to your very top choices and risk having to putting your career on hold for a year until you can apply to the "safety schools" that you could already be at. If you do get accepted to one of your top choices, you'll likely have a nice offer from a safety school you can use as bargaining leverage. My top choice waitlisted me and asked about what I had heard from other places (apparently because they're unsure about their own decisions), and I'm sure "accepted to a bunch of places with fellowship offers" looked a heck of a lot nicer than "still haven't heard back from anybody". Unless you're in a field where only people at the top few schools realistically have a future, if you care more about going to a top school than working in your field, you're probably going to grad school for the wrong reasons.

Edit: Not to mention the fact that you might not even have the right idea about where you do/don't want to go until you actually visit.

[kent shakespeare]

well, first of all, Carleton and Queens are both great schools. Even if the average Yank has never heard of them, you can bet someone on the admissions committees have. If your undergrad programs were even halfway decent, they'll probably have a decent rep among US profs in your field.

At a very minimum, programs in the Northeastern US should know you schools quite well; we get a lot of Canadians down. You are hardly going where no Canadian has gone before.

as someone else has said, the idea of a 'safety school' has less than a full consensus. But I'd ask in the subforums on specific disciplines, where you can better target people who know your fields, rather than out here.

Ziz, If you were accepted into Oxford, I wouldn't worry too much.

[fuzzylogician]

Why does a safety school have to be one you wouldn't want to enroll at? It's just one that you're very confident you'll be admitted to. I think you'd be much better off applying to a wide range of schools on your first go and figuring out where you stand, as opposed to only applying to your very top choices and risk having to putting your career on hold for a year until you can apply to the "safety schools" that you could already be at.

I think the point people are making is you shouldn't apply to schools just because you're likelier to be accepted there. Only choose programs that are a good fit and you can see yourself attending (that includes living where they're located!). Ranking and acceptance rates should not outweigh fit; what's more, I think people are often surprised to be accepted into higher ranked programs and rejected from "safeties". It's all down to where you'd fit best. At the point when you apply to PhD programs you should have a clear enough idea of your specific interests that there shouldn't be too many schools that would be good for you, but if there are and you need to narrow down the list - that's where I would consider looking at acceptance rates.

[johndiligent]

Ziz, If you were accepted into Oxford, I wouldn't worry too much.

I agree with this. You have the best stats an applicant could wish for. None of your schools are traditional "safeties", but I'd be 95% sure you'll get accepted somewhere, if not to several of the places on your list.

[rainy_day]

There is a negative connotation with safety school that I think is unfounded. One of my safety schools is also probably my third choice, out of ten, of programs I'd like to attend.

Some people may pick safety schools just for the sake of being accepted, and that is a bad idea. Just like it is a bad idea to apply to Harvard just because it is, you know, Harvard, and not because it fits.

Pick schools you would like to attend. Also, pick a range of schools. That's the advice I've received and I' think it makes a lot of sense.

[peppermint.beatnik]

I don't agree with the concept of a safety school, either, since there are so many factors in PhD admissions.

Also, as an international student, there are no safety schools in the US, especially given the current conditions. I don't think much has changed from last year.

[cheesethunder]

wow thats the first time i saw someone call carleton a good school = ) thanks!

i went there for a specific program but switched out 1st year and wished I had gone to queens instead because i didn't think anyone had heard of carleton haha

yea like any grad program ....is going to be competitive and you need to get in somewhere, some schools/programs have more spots than others but i only said carleton was a safety because i've talked to one of the heads of the department who said i 'would for sure get in' which is weird to hear when you haven't even applied yet.

but you always hear terrible stories about people who apply to 10 schools, some teir 3 etc and dont get in anywhere....i think thats the situation im, alot of people are trying to avoid! i need a home next year!