FALL 2016 Applicants!

[SocIsCool]

9 minutes ago, hazenyc said:

Is an interview (skype or whatever) a pre-requisite for everybody at this program, or only for some applicants? If you don't get a skype request does it mean you're out?

I'm not sure which program in particular @redhillgirl is talking about, but many sociology PhD programs don't interview (some do, but by no means all). I do think that informal conversations are pretty common -- I've spoken with a number of POIs but always after I emailed them to express interest in their research and to ask if they'd want to hear more about my own interests.

Edited December 16, 2015 by SocIsCool

[redhillgirl]

12 hours ago, hazenyc said:

Is an interview (skype or whatever) a pre-requisite for everybody at this program, or only for some applicants? If you don't get a skype request does it mean you're out?

Hi @hazenyc, I dunno about other programs, but this program specifically states that they dun do interviews. It's just that I shot an email to my POI and he wants to chat (still cant believe it, he's a huge figure in my field). Hope he's not reading this.

12 hours ago, SocIsCool said:

I agree with @Pennywise and would add that no matter how casual/informal the conversation may seem, treat all discussions with POIs as if they are formal interviews. Any correspondence (chats, emails, and so on) with a POI may be reported or forwarded to an admissions committee. But I think if you're sincere (like Pennywise said), if you're simply yourself, and if you don't let your nerves get to you too much, you'll be just fine.

Thanks Soclscool & Pennywise! Any idea on what questions to expect from him? Should I send him my SOP (I briefly introduced my interest but he hasnt read my SOP yet)? I'm like super nervous now and trying to read everything he's written...

12 hours ago, Pennywise said:

Congrats! That's a great sign.

I found the Skype interviews I did unnecessarily nerve-wracking. From my experience, they were trying to ascertain whether my research interests would be a good fit with their own, and what skills I could bring as their RA. I was so unfocused that I was trying to adapt my research interests to whoever I was talking with -- in hindsight, that was not an ideal gambit since it can lead to a program where you're not actually a good fit. But it is a good idea to try to really research their recent work (though it sounds like you already have). One other thought -- a very smart friend of mine with a very impressive CV and GREs only got into a very low-tier program because her research interests were TOO focused, and most of the programs were like, uh we don't have anyone doing EXACTLY that tiny area. Like, she told me that only three scholars were working on this area, and one was at Berkeley, one at Harvard. So that was not a great strategy…  

If I had it to do all over again, I would recommend 1) sincerity, 2) somewhat focused but not overly narrow research interests, 3) making sure that you're truly compatible with specific faculty at the programs you are applying to. 

It sounds like you have already anticipated all these recs, but maybe it could be helpful for others reading...

 

[SocIsCool]

6 hours ago, redhillgirl said:

Thanks Soclscool & Pennywise! Any idea on what questions to expect from him? Should I send him my SOP (I briefly introduced my interest but he hasnt read my SOP yet)? I'm like super nervous now and trying to read everything he's written...

 

I wouldn't send him anything he hasn't asked for. If you Skype with him and he suggests that you send him some of your materials, then it would be appropriate. My guess is that he'll ask about your interests, history, experience, etc. Usually these conversations (at least in my experience) are almost entirely about you and not so much about the POIs themselves. They want to get a feel for how you might fit into the department and how the two of you, in particular, might work together. Chances are he's also not going to grill you on his work. Try not to be too nervous -- just speak from what you know!

[Pennywise]

9 hours ago, SocIsCool said:

I wouldn't send him anything he hasn't asked for. If you Skype with him and he suggests that you send him some of your materials, then it would be appropriate. My guess is that he'll ask about your interests, history, experience, etc. Usually these conversations (at least in my experience) are almost entirely about you and not so much about the POIs themselves. They want to get a feel for how you might fit into the department and how the two of you, in particular, might work together. Chances are he's also not going to grill you on his work. Try not to be too nervous -- just speak from what you know!

Yeah, I didn't mean to make you nervous, sorry. I don't think any professor would expect you to be an expert on their work, but being somewhat aware of their research interests might help start a conversation. This isn't their first time at the rodeo, and they probably expect applicants to not have much substantial expertise, but to have research interests and a little bit of experience. 

My interview experiences were slightly different than SocIsCool -- after a couple brief questions about my research interests and experiences, the profs tended to want to talk about their own upcoming work (since many researchers are extremely focused on their upcoming projects) and how I could fit into it. With two in particular, it felt like what they wanted to know about me was what skills I had, or what interests I had that could translate to them assigning me to a particular project. 

So bottom line, the interviews sound like they vary quite widely from professor to professor. I personally think the fact that this person is giving you an informal interview is a great sign that he or she might be looking to take on a new student. But no pressure!

One tip if you, like me, are an over-preparer who scours CVs (possibly not relevant to the OP): if the profs you're talking with haven't published in a research area for a number of years, there's a chance they moved away from that interest and aren't looking for someone to work on a project like that. And if in their papers on a particular topic they are only second or lower authors, chances are that that subject is someone else's passion, and they were roped in as either senior scholars, or to do number crunching or something like that. I made that mistake with one professor, telling him my favorite paper was one he had published about five years ago as second author, and he was like, "oh ok well that was actually my student's paper, really, and I just helped with the [number crunching, essentially]"… Maybe all this is obvious to many people, but I wasn't really familiar with how author order and that sort of stuff worked when I was an applicant.

Anyhow, I don't know if all this would apply to critical theorists and such, so YMMV...

Edited December 18, 2015 by Pennywise

[Pennywise]

One more really general tip to everybody: current PhD students might be more likely than professors to reply to you about their program, especially if you catch them at the right time (such as after finals but before Christmas). They could give you really useful info, such as about which professors in their department might be good matches with your research interests...

[gingin6789]

7 hours ago, Pennywise said:

One more really general tip to everybody: current PhD students might be more likely than professors to reply to you about their program, especially if you catch them at the right time (such as after finals but before Christmas). They could give you really useful info, such as about which professors in their department might be good matches with your research interests...

I second this. I have met a few current grad students from some of the programs I'm applying to (mostly on Grad Cafe), and they have been so helpful! I met most of them on here two years ago when I was applying to MA programs, and now I'm applying to their PhD programs. I find these students are also very honest, encouraging, and enthusiastic about helping you! 

[Paul_SOC]

Hi There! I am  from China. An undergrad majoring in soc at a  top University. GPA 3.74 (Major 3.77)+ Average and Even Low GRE (154 167 3.5)

Two Publication in Chinese /One presentation+ One English Manuscript(Writing Sample) Prepared for submission;

Reviewer for an international journal. (maybe rare for UG)

Summer Research Intern in Canada;

One Strong Letter from a Retired Professor of One of the best programs in US. (Sorry for not saying more)

One strong letter from My Canadian Supervisor;

My research is highly ethnographic in nature so the schools I could choose are rather limited.

As a UG studying in China I know my background could be rather distinctive, But I do not have a MA degree.

I wonder if my youth&GRE could become shortcomings.

 

Edited December 19, 2015 by Paul_SOC

[Paul_SOC]

19 hours ago, iemons said:

Where are you applying to?

mm, Some Top10; But mainly Top20 plus Two Canadian MA!

Indiana; Penn; NYU is where I want to go!

Edited December 20, 2015 by Paul_SOC

[Pennywise]

<hit reply prematurely, sorry>

Edited December 20, 2015 by Pennywise

[Paul_SOC]

14 hours ago, iemons said:

Another thing I would add is that Chinese international students tend to be heavily scrutinized during the application process Specifically, I think programs, particularly top programs in the U.S., will look very carefully over your Statement of Purpose and Writing Sample to see if you demonstrate a mastery of English like that of a native speaker. If it's painfully apparent that the applicant is an international student (i.e., ESL), that spells bad news for your admission prospects. 

So if you haven't already submitted your applications, my advice for you is to have all the writing components of your application read over thoroughly by your professors. I can't emphasize this enough. Being "mostly" error free will not cut it because a single grammatical error or even syntactical awkwardness like capitalizing words after a semicolon without any compelling reason to, and your application may instantly be tossed into the reject pile. And no, you cannot just rely on Word spellcheck; you need a native English speaker who is willing to comb through your writing to fix the mistakes that non-native speakers frequently make.

P.S. All of the above advice is geared towards your application for top PhD programs in the United States. Masters programs, on the other hand, tend to accept anybody that can pay tuition. 

Thanks for your reply……I think I should make it clearer here. The Retired Professor is famous and his research is highly relevant to mine. He is an ethnographer and cultural studies researcher( Birmingham School). Some native speaker did read my SOP&Writing Sample thoroughly and correct some errors. My Canadian Supervisor doesn't know much about America but might help for my application to Canadian Schools. 

Actually the masters in Canada do offer scholarships for students, plus tuition waiver, that's why I apply for them! 

 

[SocIsCool]

3 hours ago, Paul_SOC said:

The Retired Professor is famous and his research is highly relevant to mine. He is an ethnographer and cultural studies researcher( Birmingham School).

While he'll certainly bring name recognition, I don't think you should assume that his letter alone will overcome any other deficiencies. I think you'll need to show your strengths in other areas of your application, given the low verbal score (especially for a qual researcher) and a GPA that, while solid, will be similar to the GPAs of many other applicants to top 10 and top 20 programs. I agree with iemons that your age shouldn't be a negative factor.

And sure, ethnography is still marginalized within the field (in many respects), but there are plenty of programs these days with strong training in qualitative methods. You've named one of them in NYU. Indiana and UPenn might be good for your substantive interests, if those interests really are as closely aligned with your recommender as you say. You'll be in decent shape if you've really sought out programs where the fit is high.

Edited December 21, 2015 by SocIsCool

[Paul_SOC]

1 hour ago, SocIsCool said:

While he'll certainly bring name recognition, I don't think you should assume that his letter alone will overcome any other deficiencies. I think you'll need to show your strengths in other areas of your application, given the low verbal score (especially for a qual researcher) and a GPA that, while solid, will be similar to the GPAs of many other applicants to top 10 and top 20 programs. I agree with iemons that your age shouldn't be a negative factor.

And sure, ethnography is still marginalized within the field (in many respects), but there are plenty of programs these days with strong training in qualitative methods. You've named one of them in NYU. Indiana and UPenn might be good for your substantive interests, if those interests really are as closely aligned with your recommender as you say. You'll be in decent shape if you've really sought out programs where the fit is high.

Thx for the Reply! Actually my GPA is high in China, because the way of calculating the GPA is different here. The highest in my class is just 3.80. Yep, what I am confident of is that people can see how my SOP, Writing Sample and Reference Letter are connected with each other. All of my reference letter are from cultural studies by a broad definition. My writing sample is considered by my referee as "publishable", a bit surprising to me. Working hard to improve my writing and finally submit it to one  journal. Will the professors in the committee read the writing sample thoroughly? The story could be rather interesting!

[redhillgirl]

4 hours ago, Paul_SOC said:

23 hours ago, iemons said:

Another thing I would add is that Chinese international students tend to be heavily scrutinized during the application process Specifically, I think programs, particularly top programs in the U.S., will look very carefully over your Statement of Purpose and Writing Sample to see if you demonstrate a mastery of English like that of a native speaker. If it's painfully apparent that the applicant is an international student (i.e., ESL), that spells bad news for your admission prospects. 

So if you haven't already submitted your applications, my advice for you is to have all the writing components of your application read over thoroughly by your professors. I can't emphasize this enough. Being "mostly" error free will not cut it because a single grammatical error or even syntactical awkwardness like capitalizing words after a semicolon without any compelling reason to, and your application may instantly be tossed into the reject pile. And no, you cannot just rely on Word spellcheck; you need a native English speaker who is willing to comb through your writing to fix the mistakes that non-native speakers frequently make.

P.S. All of the above advice is geared towards your application for top PhD programs in the United States. Masters programs, on the other hand, tend to accept anybody that can pay tuition. 

Thx for the Reply! Actually my GPA is high in China, because the way of calculating the GPA is different here. The highest in my class is just 3.80. Yep, what I am confident of is that people can see how my SOP, Writing Sample and Reference Letter are connected with each other. All of my reference letter are from cultural studies by a broad definition. My writing sample is considered by my referee as "publishable", a bit surprising to me. Working hard to improve my writing and finally submit it to one  journal. Will the professors in the committee read the writing sample thoroughly? The story could be rather interesting!

Well there certainly are black sheeps in the herd. I'm from Hong Kong but when I did my masters in UK I met quite a number of mainland Chinese friends. My friends of cos were not cheaters (in fact, many of them failed quite miserably in the 1st term cos they were not familiar with the whole US/Europe academic system), but quite many in the Chinese students circle paid to have their essays written for them while they boarded luxury cruises during holidays. Sadly no one felt more unfortunate for this phenomenon than the honest Chinese students, which make up at least the better half of the group (and "Chinese students" by broader definition, including myself). Whatever they do they are looked at and evaluated with the highest degree of suspicion.

The thing is, I dont think a student who pays to have the application done for him/her can survive for more than a single term in grad school, esp in top programs. So argh I really hate those people giving us bad names and making us go thru the extra scrutiny during applications. sorry for the random rants....

Edited December 21, 2015 by redhillgirl

[SocIsCool]

6 hours ago, Paul_SOC said:

Thx for the Reply! Actually my GPA is high in China, because the way of calculating the GPA is different here. The highest in my class is just 3.80. Yep, what I am confident of is that people can see how my SOP, Writing Sample and Reference Letter are connected with each other. All of my reference letter are from cultural studies by a broad definition. My writing sample is considered by my referee as "publishable", a bit surprising to me. Working hard to improve my writing and finally submit it to one  journal. Will the professors in the committee read the writing sample thoroughly? The story could be rather interesting!

Definitely not suggesting that your GPA isn't good or that your materials won't flow. What I am suggesting is that, like I said earlier, this will be the case for many applicants to top programs, who will have high or perfect GPAs along with impressive statements, "publishable" writing samples, and strong letters that paint them as solid or even intriguing applicants. So I guess I agree with @iemons that you didn't really provide enough specifics about your research interests or the departments you're applying to for us to make any sort of judgment beyond noting that your credentials are solid but unsurprising for applicants to top 20 programs. And the two things you did ask about are either nonissues (your age) or a bit worrisome (your low verbal GRE).

Certainly wish you the best of luck 

 

[dw3000]

Interest: Qualitative, Urban Sociology of China (Relationships, Women Studies), Overseas Chinese Studies, Education

Undergrad: BBA International Trade (In China) GPA: 4.0

Masters: MSc Sociology (Uni of Oxford)-graduating Fall 2016

GRE: 159V 158Q 5.0 AW  IELTS: 8.0

3 publications in peer-reviewed journals-sole authorship (2 business related though, only 1 is remotely sociology related)

2 more articles are under review (sociology related)

Research experience: Involved in a think-tank group for public policy 

1 conference (but doesn't matter cause the email of acceptance for the conference came a day after I submitted my application, TOT!)

Recommendations: 1 from Sociology Dept Head, 1 from my supervisor (Research Officer), 1 from my professor, 1 from my research group leader

 

That's about it. My chances aren't great. I applied for Fall 2015, only got into 1 US school-Purdue. My stats are pretty much the same since I am only in my masters for 2 months before I started applying. So no results for my masters and the professors probably don't know me well enough to give me super solid recommendations. I guess since then, I have been involved in a research group and gain 1 more publication, but that's about it really. 

I am applying to only my dream schools and programs this round because I think I will have a better shot at getting into them for Fall 2017 if I fail this year as I get more research experience as my masters program goes on. My supervisor wrote me a very politically correct and polite email trying to convince me to apply to schools that are not as 'shiny'. I just don't want to feel inclined to go to a school that I wasn't set out on going in the first place just because I got it you know. 

Fun fact: Despite my research interest, I decided to go for Sociology of Mafia as one of my specialised options for my Masters. Cause come on, how cool is it to study mafias with Federico Varese eh? Wire-tapping, Russian mafias, Yakuzas, this is the stuff. Plus I want to be able to explore other topics while I still can before buckling down for my PhD. Prison reformation sounds interesting too, unfortunately David Kirk is not offering a course. 

Also Hi everyone.

Edited December 21, 2015 by dw3000

[dw3000]

On 12/19/2015 at 2:28 PM, Paul_SOC said:

Hi There! I am  from China. An undergrad majoring in soc at a  top University. GPA 3.74 (Major 3.77)+ Average and Even Low GRE (154 167 3.5)

Two Publication in Chinese /One presentation+ One English Manuscript(Writing Sample) Prepared for submission;

Reviewer for an international journal. (maybe rare for UG)

Summer Research Intern in Canada;

One Strong Letter from a Retired Professor of One of the best programs in US. (Sorry for not saying more)

One strong letter from My Canadian Supervisor;

My research is highly ethnographic in nature so the schools I could choose are rather limited.

As a UG studying in China I know my background could be rather distinctive, But I do not have a MA degree.

I wonder if my youth&GRE could become shortcomings.

 

We are in the same position then. A year ago, I applied with only my undergrad from China (Central China Normal Uni), majoring in International Trade. Hi! 

[dw3000]

On 12/20/2015 at 11:55 AM, iemons said:

Another thing I would add is that Chinese international students tend to be heavily scrutinized during the application process Specifically, I think programs, particularly top programs in the U.S., will look very carefully over your Statement of Purpose and Writing Sample to see if you demonstrate a mastery of English like that of a native speaker. If it's painfully apparent that the applicant is an international student (i.e., ESL), that spells bad news for your admission prospects. 

So if you haven't already submitted your applications, my advice for you is to have all the writing components of your application read over thoroughly by your professors. I can't emphasize this enough. Being "mostly" error free will not cut it because a single grammatical error or even syntactical awkwardness like capitalizing words after a semicolon without any compelling reason to, and your application may instantly be tossed into the reject pile. And no, you cannot just rely on Word spellcheck; you need a native English speaker who is willing to comb through your writing to fix the mistakes that non-native speakers frequently make.

P.S. All of the above advice is geared towards your application for top PhD programs in the United States. Masters programs, on the other hand, tend to accept anybody that can pay tuition. 

Unfortunately, I have to agree on the bit about Master's Program accessibility. 

[dw3000]

1 hour ago, iemons said:

I think you should have taken your supervisor's advice. As he/she put it, it isn't best to designate dream schools based on how "shiny" they are (i.e., how much international prestige they command). 

In the world of sociology, your choices don't cohere that well. Harvard is known for it's strength in crim, urban, strat, networks, and race, while Yale is known for culture, theory, religion, and comparative/historical. Neither Yale nor Penn has any sociologists studying China, last time I checked.

I'm not saying you couldn't get into Harvard/Yale/Penn. But it doesn't seem like you've done much research beyond superficial brand names of schools. 

I feel a bit like a prick for correcting you but Deborah Davis in Yale is doing Contemporary Chinese studies. In fact she is my best fit. She is amazing and her work was what inspired me to do what I do. Philip Smith and Jeffrey Alexander from Yale focusing on cultural sociology also influenced my choice of Yale because while I am interested in contemporary urban studies regarding Mainland China unmarried women in major cities (it gets real specific, so it is really hard for me to find someone that is with the same interest), I like to view and frame my research from a cultural sociological point of view. So tbh, among the three, Yale is my perfect fit. 

UPenn and Harvard also has professors doing educational studies pertaining to races/American Asians which is something that I am tackling for my master's thesis as well, so they are highly relevant. I am very interested in racial studies although I tend to focus on those of Chinese descent. 

If I just wanted 'shiny', I would have gone for Princeton or UC Berkeley (much higher ranked in sociology).

You misunderstood me though. I am officially applying for my phd studies for fall 2017 when I have graduated and got all my research, conference, and papers tied in, so I would get a better chance. Only then, I will apply for a mixture of schools regardless of ranking. I was not planning on applying for fall 2016 initially, since I have only been at my masters institution for 2 months, hence I don't think it would make much of a difference with my fall 2015 application in the first place. However, at the last minute, I thought why not, just apply to work with all my dream professors (which coincidentally reside in shiny schools), if I don't get in, it's fine, I have another shot for 2017. I don't want to make the same mistake of applying to random schools just because they are traditionally known as 'safety', get into one, and feel inclined to take it even though their research interest has nothing to do with what I wanna do (which was what happened with Purdue). 

My supervisor merely said that the schools I want to go to is difficult to get in because of how 'shiny' they are and I should consider applying to lesser known schools despite my research interest. 

Hope that clear things up. Have a great day.  

PS: It is still pretty awesome to get into a top school though, especially when you have professors that you really want to work with. 

PPS: Their funding packages don't hurt as well.

Edited December 21, 2015 by dw3000

[MaxWeberHasAPosse]

9 hours ago, iemons said:

First, I apologize for being too critical. Clearly you have done more research than I suggested.

However, it still sounds like you've chosen the schools first and found reasons to apply to them, rather than the other way around. You initially never stated you were interested in cultural sociology. Of course if you are interested in cultural sociology you apply to Yale. It's probably their most well-known specialty area. (Though, on that note, I will say that students of cultural sociology tend to have a rough time in the academic job market. Likewise, Jeffrey Alexander...well, I wouldn't take him as a mentor if I were you. He also has a rather (in)famous cult-like following among his advisees.)

The "shiny" quality difference between Berkeley/Princeton vs. Harvard/Penn/Yale is negligible. Well, I suppose Yale is another story...But you shouldn't take the US News rankings literally and think, Berkeley and Princeton are #1 and Harvard is #6. They're all of the same caliber.

Anyway, if your supervisor who is also writing you a recommendation letter suggests that you should apply to lower ranked schools, I would say s/he is trying to drop a not-so-subtle hint.

 

Yale is also a major comparative-historical department and social theory. What makes you say those negative things about Alexander? He is a very kind and pleasant and thoughtful person. If he has a "cult-like following" then perhaps he is a wonderful advisor. Also, his protege, Isaac Reed, is perhaps the most important, agenda setting social theorist right now. I think it is funny when people talk like they are experts and gossip. A continuation of all the nonsense on this forum.

[Pennywise]

Are you guys aware of these Sociology message boards for current and recent PhDs on the job market?

http://www.socjobrumors.com

and this one:

http://socjobs.proboards.com

Many of the posters seem really bitter, but there's some valuable info. I think it's worth looking at how desperate people on the job market can be, when you're deciding whether getting a sociology PhD is really a smart time investment. There really are not very many jobs for all the smart, prolific sociology PhD students out there. Academia is changing as it becomes more corporatized (with low paid adjunct instructors replacing medium paid tenured faculty). I personally went into all this with eyes wide open (and picked my program in part because it has a record of getting graduates very good jobs outside academia if that's what they want).

The posters on the site are pretty cynical about the possibilities of getting a tenure track job in a research university in general because the job market is so awful, but *especially* if you do not graduate from a top 10 program (or, some of them think, top 3). In their shorthand, HRM means high-ranked monkey (meaning PhD program), MRM means middle, LRM means low. For example:

http://www.socjobrumors.com/topic/stars-of-the-fall-2015-market

[Square49]

I am a criminology major at a somewhat obscure MA program, but I want to apply to soc programs. From what I understand, however, soc programs are more competitive. Can someone clarify for me what type of GRE scores are considered good for top 5 programs in sociology, as I am a little confused after exploring average gre scores for some of the top 15 programs. For instance, Cal has an average of 161v and 154q listed on their website, but that composite score is lower than the scores listed by Texas and Duke. My scores (159v, 158q) will get me considered by top 5 programs in criminal justice/criminology, but do I have a legitimate chance of being accepted into top 5 programs in sociology?If it is any help at all, my dream school is Cal Berkeley. Any information or insight would be greatly appreciated.