Will going to a lower tier school hurt me later?

[rvadog]

I am in a weird situation. I am applying for a program at work next summer. In order to be competitive for that program I am looking into attending the M.S. in Management and Leadership program at Western Governor's University. If you don't know much about WGU, all the classes are self paced and students have been known to be able to complete grad programs in as little as six months. WGU is regionally accredited and non-profit. I don't think most employers will no the difference between WGU and Central Colorado State University. But the school can't have much of a good reputation in academia. The problem is I don't want to close any doors for the future.

Will getting a M.S. from this school harm my chances f getting in to a top tier school in the future? Specifically I'm interested in policy or public administration. Will having this lower tier M.S. make me less competitive for a M.P.P. from a top 25 school?

[GradSchoolTruther]

Why spend the money for a master's degree from a program that has little respect in the academic community?

[rvadog]

The grad degree would make me competitive for a new position within my current organization and cost would be negligible as a result of WGUs low tuition and y organizations tuition assistance. 

[mbennett]

I've wondered this, too. Most people I've discussed this with said that with undergrad, unless you're attending an Ivy League, the school doesn't matter as much as your achievements, grades, etc. However, no one really has answers when it comes to grad schools. Personally, I'd like to think that the school doesn't matter as much as your degree, grades, achievements, etc. It may depend on whether the schools you're looking at for M.P.P have preferred school they choose candidates from.

[rising_star]

I think even employers in the workplace might be wary of Western Governors because it doesn't have the best reputation, even among online institutions. Could you do it through the online portion of a bricks-and-mortar university? I'm thinking of the huge online programs at Arizona State and Penn State, or something similar. 

[rvadog]

My employer couldn't give two shoots about where the degree is from. WGU is regionally accredited and non-profit. The benefit to WGU is the ability to bust my tail and get it done quicker.

[rising_star]

rvadog, that may be true of your current employer but, do you intend to stay at your current employer for the rest of your career? If not, you may want to consider how other employers will view your resume.

[rvadog]

If I get this position I will spend my entire career with my current employer. If I don't and I don't get another job right away I go to grad school. Thus the question.

Also, I have a hard time understanding why a WGU degree would hurt me. I could leave it off my resume. There's no gap in employment since I'm still at my current job. But even with it on my resume, I have a hard time believing that there's more name recognition for WGU than some random school like North Colorado University. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel like 90% of schools that aren't elite universities (ivy league), or big state schools (UVA) are looked at the same. 

So what do you think? Let's say I apply to Georgetown's M.P.P. or J.D. program. Let's say I'm right on the fence. Will a WGU degree push me over the wrong way, or will they just roll their eyes and ignore it (given that I haven't turned it into a selling point like "Graduated from WGU's rigorous M.S. in leadership program").

Edited October 27, 2015 by rvadog

[rising_star]

rvadog, WGU is indeed better known than many other schools, precisely because it is known for negative things. Whereas University of Northern Colorado is known to be part of the state of Colorado's higher education system and so it's respected in that regard. I'd be concerned about a WGU degree either counting as a negative or a headscratcher for people looking at your qualifications for graduate school.

[dr. t]

It will look like you're doing the least amount of work you can to get the credential. But you seem to already have the answer you want.

[rvadog]

It will look like you're doing the least amount of work you can to get the credential. But you seem to already have the answer you want.

I really resent this comment. To your first point, welcome to the real world. I wish I had the luxury of attending one of my first choice programs. But I don't. And I'm on a time crunch. This degree would make me more competive for my dream job, a job I would spend the next 20 years doing and WGUs program alows me to dedicate signifanct time in order to reduce time spent in school. For this reason, WGU is my only option at the moment. It's WGU or nothing.

To your second, I'd encourage you to read the replys to my question and my responses. If by "you seem to already have the answer you want" you mean I wasn't sufficiently grateful for answers to questiosn I didn't ask, then fine. I asked "Would WGU hurt admissions chances to top universities?" I recieved lots of info about jobs and resumes. No one even tangentially addressed my actual question until the post right above yours.

[lyrehc]

Top universities usually look at a student holistically. GRE scores, letters of reference, undergraduate institution, GPA at both the undergrad and master's levels, area of research interest, publications, etc. I went to an unknown school for a degree in a field that does not relate to my current field at all. I got into my first choice school on the first try and am fully funded.

There are those who look askance at WGU but if your entire application packet looks good I don't think a degree from there would be a deal breaker.

[dr. t]

I really resent this comment. To your first point, welcome to the real world. I wish I had the luxury of attending one of my first choice programs. But I don't. And I'm on a time crunch. 

You asked how it would look. I told you how it would look. Resent away.

If by "you seem to already have the answer you want" you mean I wasn't sufficiently grateful for answers to questiosn I didn't ask, then fine. 

No, I mean you really want us to confirm your clear belief that this program will be perfectly fine, which R_S and I are not inclined to do. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by telkanuru

[rvadog]

No, I mean you really want us to confirm your clear belief that this program will be perfectly fine, which R_S and I are not inclined to do.

You are reading what you want to in this conversation. I'd ask you to stop doing that and read what I'm asking. I don't want you to confirm my clear belief in WGU. I didn't ask for a general opinion of the school. I didn't ask for a big picture of how the school would prepare me for life or look on my resume.

I asked a very specific question that you are either unable or unwilling to answer. Will WGU have a negative effect on future grad school apps?That's it. That's all I asked.

[dr. t]

Will WGU have a negative effect on future grad school apps?

This question has been answered several times, I think, but maybe I'm "reading what I want into the conversation" 

That answer is: at best it won't help you, and at worst it will hurt you because, and I quote:

It will look like you're doing the least amount of work you can to get the credential. 

Edited October 28, 2015 by telkanuru

[rvadog]

Where? You certainly haven't tried to answer it until your back handed answer just now.  R_S answered right before you jumped in. That would be all of one answer to my question in almost ten comments. 

[dr. t]

In R_S's very first comment, they said (my emphasis):

I think even employers in the workplace might be wary of Western Governors because it doesn't have the best reputation, even among online institutions.

 I don't think it would stretch credulity to assert that this was an answer to your question, i.e. that not only grad schools, but "even employers" would look askance at the degree.

[mbennett]

rvadog, that may be true of your current employer but, do you intend to stay at your current employer for the rest of your career? If not, you may want to consider how other employers will view your resume.

I agree, that is important to consider. But at the same time, once you've been working in your field for a few years, your work experience carries way more weight than where you went to school. I know this is more about undergrad than grad school, but here's an interesting Washington Post article on the subject: 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2015/03/16/forget-harvard-and-stanford-it-really-doesnt-matter-where-you-go-to-college/

I think the degree and your grades, etc., carry a bit more weight than where you actually went to school, in the majority of situations. I know there are still some places where the school does matter, but generally speaking.

[rvadog]

In R_S's very first comment, they said (my emphasis):

 I don't think it would stretch credulity to assert that this was an answer to your question, i.e. that not only grad schools, but "even employers" would look askance at the degree.

Ok, so the only attempt that anyone made to answer my question that I could reply to was a vague reference while discussing my resume?

I don't understand what's wrong with you. I haven't done anything overtly offensive and yet your first interaction with me wasn't helpful, it was accusatory. I think it's clear that there were not "several" attempts to answer my very specific question that I ignored in order to push my point of view. I mostly don't understand why, if you couldn't be constructive, you even posted in here. 

[rising_star]

Ok, so the only attempt that anyone made to answer my question that I could reply to was a vague reference while discussing my resume?
I don't understand what's wrong with you. I haven't done anything overtly offensive and yet your first interaction with me wasn't helpful, it was accusatory. I think it's clear that there were not "several" attempts to answer my very specific question that I ignored in order to push my point of view. I mostly don't understand why, if you couldn't be constructive, you even posted in here. 

Wait, are you saying that I didn't attempt to answer your question. I'm pretty sure I did. I said "I'd be concerned about a WGU degree either counting as a negative or a headscratcher for people looking at your qualifications for graduate school." Wasn't your original question about how a MS from WGU would be perceived if you went on to apply for a MPP? The reference to your resume was to get you to think about things beyond your current employer and current situation. If you're thinking about doing a MPP down the line, you're already thinking about your future somewhat so why not think about it more broadly? That WGU degree is going to be your only graduate qualification for a while (correct me if I'm wrong) so, any time a job advert specifies a preference or need for a graduate degree, you're either going to have to list it or risk not meeting the basic qualifications. If you're applying to grad school, you are generally required to list all institutions attended. If you don't and they find out, they can kick you out of the program for lying on your application.

Look, people (especially academics) don't trust WGU precisely for the reasons that you find attractive. I find it hard to believe that a self-paced, online master's which you can complete in six months is equivalent to completing a 2 year online or in-person master's degree from a bricks-and-mortar institution. Other academics are going to view WGU similarly. We can be somewhat sympathetic when it's clear that it was the person's only option (e.g., living abroad, stay-at-home parent, etc.) but, even then, they'd prefer if your online work was done at a more respected institution. Prestige matters when you're applying to grad school. I view a WGU degree as something I could completely bullshit my way through in a few months if I were willing to pay the money. Is having a degree that people think of like that going to help you get into grad school? Probably not. Is it going to hurt you? It will in the eyes of some. 

To get to telkanuru's point, I'll point out that it seems like you've already decided to do the WGU degree because of the opportunity at work. That's fine. But, don't come here and expect us to tell you it will present zero problems later on for you when that really may not be the case. 

[rvadog]

Wait, are you saying that I didn't attempt to answer your question. I'm pretty sure I did.

You did. After telk's snarky comment. Before, you didn't. You commented on how it would look on my resume. Appreciated but wasn't what I asked.

To get to telkanuru's point, I'll point out that it seems like you've already decided to do the WGU degree because of the opportunity at work. That's fine. But, don't come here and expect us to tell you it will present zero problems later on for you when that really may not be the case. 

I'm sorry but that's bullshit. Look through my posts and tell me where you answered my question and I pushed back. I pushed back against the resume questions because I've already considered those. I don't need input on someone that doesn't know my work experience, doesn't know my work situation, to comment on an aspect of my situation that I've already considered.  I came here because I thought individuals here might have some insight on the admissions process. I see that that's not the case.

[rising_star]

You did. After telk's snarky comment. Before, you didn't. You commented on how it would look on my resume. Appreciated but wasn't what I asked.

I'm sorry but that's bullshit. Look through my posts and tell me where you answered my question and I pushed back. I pushed back against the resume questions because I've already considered those. I don't need input on someone that doesn't know my work experience, doesn't know my work situation, to comment on an aspect of my situation that I've already considered.  I came here because I thought individuals here might have some insight on the admissions process. I see that that's not the case.

I'm sorry, but there seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding here. Do you somehow apply for graduate school and not include a resume/CV? If you know of schools where that's the norm, then you should explicitly say so. As far as I know, Georgetown wouldn't fall into that group. But my understanding is that MPP programs pay careful attention to one's resume/CV (yes, I know they aren't the same). So, WGU would be on your resume for grad schools and future employers to see. I'm sorry if you didn't realize that your resume is a part of your graduate application package. I assume everyone on here knows that so I didn't think to state that explicitly but, now I have. 

What other insights into the admissions process are you looking for? I mean, you could just call the grad admissions office at Georgetown and ask them your question.

My employer couldn't give two shoots about where the degree is from. WGU is regionally accredited and non-profit. The benefit to WGU is the ability to bust my tail and get it done quicker.

This is where I got the idea that you've already made up your mind. You continue to argue for why WGU is better than all alternatives, even as people urge you to consider the alternatives. You provide no evidence that you've seriously considered whether alternative institutions would get you where you want to be so this reads as WGU or nothing.

[dr. t]

I don't understand what's wrong with you. I haven't done anything overtly offensive and yet your first interaction with me wasn't helpful, it was accusatory. I think it's clear that there were not "several" attempts to answer my very specific question that I ignored in order to push my point of view. I mostly don't understand why, if you couldn't be constructive, you even posted in here. 

I think it's now my turn to accuse you of "reading what [you] want into the conversation".

The best of luck with your future endeavors. 

[GradSchoolTruther]

After WGU, you could always get a Ph.D. from Capella University, and then wonder why you can't get a tenure-track job.

[serenade]

Dear rvadog, 
All of the posters on this board have been trying to help you, not accuse you or evade your questions. The responses you've received are from people who indeed have insight into admissions processes and the majority consensus is that no, attending WGU is not a good idea. You appear very defensive toward the very people who are attempting to offer you (solicited) advice.