Unsure if I should give up

[what_now]

Hi everyone,

So I just took the GRE for the second time, in preparation for PhD applications and it didn't go very well.

I've spent the past 3 years getting as much research experience as I possibly could, as well as extracurriculars, and working myself constantly to the bone. I'll have glowing references from the top people in my subfield in my country, multiple coauthored working papers, a great gpa from a tough school, and a strong, award-winning writing sample.  I've sacrificed my health (mental and otherwise), and my social life, in pursuit of a stronger applicant profile. But, in spite of it all, I have serious anxiety about and difficulty with standardized tests, and - even though I do quantitative work - I have only been able to pull off a mediocre Q score (157 last time, 158 this time). I can try to take the test one more time in November, but as I'm in a Master's program its not going to be possible for me to drop everything and study for it, so I'm not sure that I could raise it much higher.

I'm writing this post because basically - I don't know what to do at this point. I know that getting a PhD outside of the top 10 makes it very hard for your to get an academic job after. I know that top 10 schools consider the GRE as gospel. I know that I want to be an academic, and that I would be a great one. But I also don't want to sink $1000 into PhD applications, when my GRE score will preclude me from admission anywhere with a good placement record.

If you were in my position, what would you do? Wait a year? Give up? Try anyway and just hope to hell it works out?

I'm honestly at a loss.

[Chubberubber]

Honestly, from everything you wrote you sound like an outstanding applicant. GRE scores really are only one part of the total application. Fit with PI and research experience are often more important than that. You can usually gauge which score you should be aiming for by looking at different department's web site .This one from the University of Chicago, shows you're right in the average of their admitted studets from last year, as well as Yale with a range of 550-800 in the old scoring (146-166 in the new scoring). But even in universities like UC Berkeley or Sanford with a higher quant score average of admitted students, will surely look at your application and review it in its totality. I wouldn't get too hung up on the GRE score and apply to schools where you feel like you have the best fit, where you specific research experience be valued and preferably institutions with some connection to your LOR writers. 

I'm writing this assuming your Q score is your lowest one in the GRE. If you did well in the other parts, you will still be viewed as an excellent candidate, and I'm certain your undergrad GPA and GPA from your Master's program provide further proof of your academic abilities. If you are worried about your Q GRE hurting your application, make sure to highlight your proved record with quantitive research in your SOP. For what's it worth, I got into a very good Ph.D program (albeit in a different field, but one that does require a lot of quantitative research) with  a similar Q GRE to yours. But this is only my experience, and I know some luck was involved...

[Bubandis]

I agree with the poster above. You will be competitive for top 20 departments. I know this because I was last year, with an application profile that was considerably less impressive than yours. I can't speak with much confidence toward top 10 departments, as I didn't apply to a single one, but would be surprised if that quant score put you out of the running at all 10.

[Determinedandnervous]

I'll third both posters. Your GRE quant score does not mean as much when you have quantitative research experience and/or training. Furthermore, the GRE itself does not matter as much if you have tons of research experience like you said. The competition is steep, so it might cost you a top 10 admission, but not all of them.

By the way, it's not exactly true that only schools in the top 10 give you a TT academic job. It is true that if you want to get a job at a prestigious research university, and it is true that coming from Harvard rather than a more middling university will make your job search easier. However, there are plenty of TT academic jobs that are not at R1 universities that regularly hire candidates from other schools. I've seen even the University of Delaware (unranked) place assistant professors in departments, including one at a college near where I live (though not where I attend). Even at R1's, you could be in the running for the job if you get a lot of methods training (which it sounds like you have quite a bit already) and publish an above average amount of articles in well-regarded journals.

[kaykaykay]

 

 

If you can only imagine yourself in a top ten department, i would say give up. Not because of the GREs but because you are probably not interested in the PhD, and research enough. Also with any GRE points the application process is a crap shoot and you might encounter a massive disappointment no matter what. While here everyone wants to encourage you , we do not know your profile and we do not know who else is applying so noone will be able to tell you what sort of chances do you have (GREs aside). If you think you could be happy elsewhere (not top ten) then research some good backups and then you will not stress this much.

Edited October 26, 2015 by kaykaykay

[what_now]

It's not that I can only imagine myself at a top 10 department, its that so much of the information online indicates that going to a lesser-ranked program is a one-way ticket to the sessional ghetto. Some of my professors have also actively discouraged me from applying to lower-ranked programs where I have great POIs/fit, for post-grad placement reasons (incidentally, some of the same professors who stressed the importance of the GRE Q score). I do love research, in fact, which is why I want to be able to get an academic job after and continue to act on that love of research , rather than living paycheque to paycheque with no research budget.

Anyway, thanks everyone for your words of re-assurance. Giving up on the basis of a Q score is probably rash, and I hope you're right that applications are reviewed holistically.  I appreciate everyone who took the time to reply.

[esotericish]

Don't rule out schools based on your GRE score.

Also, don't put that much stake in rankings. Yeah, if you go to Harvard or Stanford you'll be better off. But if you go to any decent program (whatever arbitrary cutoff you decide) and work with people who want to work with you, publish something, generally do well, you'll get a job. I'm at a top ~20 or so and the three people we have on the market this year are definitely going to get jobs. But they're also really good.

[puddle]

Sadly GRE scores do matter at top programs. In my cohort, even political theorists had quant scores above 700 using the old grading system. Do what is best for you but seriously put some thought into retaking the test.

[terefere]

I don't want to sound mean but if you're struggling with getting a better score on GRE because of stress and anxiety, then maybe going to grad school is not for you. PhD level courses, qualifying exams, getting negative feedback at conferences, or rejections from journals, all this is much much worse.

[PoliticalOrder]

158 isn't even that bad. Go look through the results page, there are dozens of people who got into top programs with scores near or below that.

[cooperstreet]

On 10/26/2015 at 9:29 AM, kaykaykay said:

If you can only imagine yourself in a top ten department, i would say give up. Not because of the GREs but because you are probably not interested in the PhD, and research enough.

Some people have families/parters/obligations which make taking a longer shot at a lower ranked department not a good decision.

[kaykaykay]

2 hours ago, cooperstreet said:

Some people have families/parters/obligations which make taking a longer shot at a lower ranked department not a good decision.

lower ranked than 10???? so you would not go to Rochester because it is not top 10?  Some prospective students here are very arrogant and they need a reality check. Yes you have to choose carefully, especially after you get accepted to a program. But since the process is a crapshot starting it with the attitude of not even looking beyond top 10 is very counterproductive imho.

Edited January 14, 2016 by kaykaykay

[GradSchoolTruther]

I recommend the OP get Paxil or other anti-anxiety medications. It's going to be a long life if you think you need to be No. 1 all the time.