University of Wisconsin-Madison issues?

[cronkam]

I've noticed a few "results" where the note attached indicates that there will be significant turnover in the department, but I wanted to see if any slightly-less anonymous people of the internet could confirm/deny/poke fun at the prospie for paying too much attention to the comments of completely anonymous people of the internet.  I applied there but haven't heard anything yet (which probably means it's a no, right?), so my interest is slightly more than academic (haha, I'm suuuuper funny).

I know the state government has been pushing through some academic unfriendly legislation, but this is the first I've heard of any large-scale departures resulting from it.

[elw]

There was a thread on poli sci rumors, but again — anonymous and hardly to be taken seriously.

[GiveItToEmStraight]

I don't want to make too much out of this, but I do think that Wisconsin admits should keep their eyes wide open, so to speak. It is hardly a secret that higher ed in under attack in WI, and, since UW-M is a state school, it is worth considering. Also, in the past, their stipends have not been very good (15K is what I seem to recall). This isn't a major issue, as the COL is likely lower there than many places, but 15K still isn't great by any stretch. Also, how much money is guaranteed for conference travel?

And, finally, I think placement ought to be a key consideration for everybody on this site, especially in your subfield. So, with UW-M, as with all schools that you are interested in, make sure that their placement history is reflective of your goals (especially in your subfield) in terms of quality of placements and in the percentage of students placed. On this note, make sure to press department's for a more complete picture!!!! Most places don't provide information on whether their placements are tenure track or simply term appointments (UW-M, for instance, does not provide this information). Also, make sure you have a good sense of how many students matriculate into a program in a given year versus how many placements they tend to average per year. This is important, because simply looking at a list of placements can obscure things a bit if you don't keep it in mind : example: Dept A admits 10 students per cohort and tends to place 6-7 in tenure track lines, and 1-3 in term appointments (either as VAPS or post docs), while Dept B tends to admit 20 students per cohort and places 10 in tenure track lines with 3-4 term appointments...Who places better? Dept A, clearly.

Be smart about this stuff, y'all.

And, related to placement, make sure the faculty members you'd like to work with publish with grad students....some departments have a great culture of coauthorship with grad students, some don't. I'll let you figure out which end of the spectrum UW-M is on.....

 

[alphazeta]

There is little doubt that Wisconsin will be experiencing some departures.  There is also little reason to believe rumors about specific people.  If you have the good fortune of well-connected advisors at present, bring this subject up with them.  They will be in a position to actually know such things.

If you've been accepted at Wisconsin and you're interested in working with specific people, be sure to talk to them during admit weekend.  Any decent person who's planning to leave will let you know that information, particularly if they have concrete plans.  Make it clear to these people that you are interested in working with them specifically and that their plans are relevant to your decision.

I'm assuming that your concern is the departure of specific faculty relevant to your interests.  If your concern is that a general pattern of departures will affect the overall standing of the department and thus your eventual prospects, then I wouldn't worry too much.  Reputations change very slowly and many programs have rebounded from significant departures.  Some do not, but we're talking now about outcomes over a decade scale, which are not very relevant to someone entering grad school next fall.

[yaygrad]

I have severe reservations about this department. Why can't they place their students? 

I looked at cv's but it only seems like a 2nd year is doing ok. Is it possible that the students who attend UW lack motivation?

[GiveItToEmStraight]

1 hour ago, yaygrad said:

I have severe reservations about this department. Why can't they place their students? 

I looked at cv's but it only seems like a 2nd year is doing ok. Is it possible that the students who attend UW lack motivation?

Absolutely not. Do you really think that it is plausible that, year in and year out, cohorts of unmotivated students wind up attending UW-M? C'mon!

Something like this suggests more long-term structural problems, likely including poor quality advising by a majority of faculty, a culture lacking a prerogative for professionalizing their students, and perhaps problems in methods training. It could be any combination of the things I have already listed, as well as other factors that I haven't, who knows? BUT, I am quite confident in speculating that it isn't a problem of student potential or motivation, as that is just so highly unlikely.

If you have reservations about the program, that's fine. Choose some other place (assuming you have more than 1 acceptance) where the evidence of placement and student success is more aligned with your goals.

[yaygrad]

3 minutes ago, GiveItToEmStraight said:

Absolutely not. Do you really think that it is plausible that, year in and year out, cohorts of unmotivated students wind up attending UW-M? C'mon!

Something like this suggests more long-term structural problems, likely including poor quality advising by a majority of faculty, a culture lacking a prerogative for professionalizing their students, and perhaps problems in methods training. It could be any combination of the things I have already listed, as well as other factors that I haven't, who knows? BUT, I am quite confident in speculating that it isn't a problem of student potential or motivation, as that is just so highly unlikely.

If you have reservations about the program, that's fine. Choose some other place (assuming you have more than 1 acceptance) where the evidence of placement and student success is more aligned with your goals.

I have other options, but my fit is better at UW.... Thanks for your advice.

[gotin!]

1 hour ago, GiveItToEmStraight said:

Absolutely not. Do you really think that it is plausible that, year in and year out, cohorts of unmotivated students wind up attending UW-M? C'mon!

Something like this suggests more long-term structural problems, likely including poor quality advising by a majority of faculty, a culture lacking a prerogative for professionalizing their students, and perhaps problems in methods training. It could be any combination of the things I have already listed, as well as other factors that I haven't, who knows? BUT, I am quite confident in speculating that it isn't a problem of student potential or motivation, as that is just so highly unlikely.

If you have reservations about the program, that's fine. Choose some other place (assuming you have more than 1 acceptance) where the evidence of placement and student success is more aligned with your goals.

 

I heard advising is a major problem, but if students are not pushing themselves there is only so much an advisor can do. 

[Moofasa]

What did everyone think of the visit day? 

[PizzaCat93]

Not to be an alarmist, but the fine state of Wisconsin has essentially done away with tenure at UW. (http://www.slate.com/articles/life/education/2016/03/university_of_wisconsin_and_the_aftermath_of_destroying_professor_tenure.html) This, coupled with general budgetary issues, as well as the apparently toxic department environment, should make anyone considering UW start looking elsewhere, if you have other options. I have no skin in this game and am saying this as a total outsider, but this is just my opinion. 

Edited March 22, 2016 by PizzaCat93

[yaygrad]

Removed my posts because I was informed that I was being quoted on PSR.... if anyone wants my impressions just pm me. 

[GradSchoolTruther]

Don't go to any program yaygrad chooses.

[gotin!]

On 3/23/2016 at 5:30 PM, GradSchoolTruther said:

Don't go to any program yaygrad chooses.

I saw the post before it was taken down. It was the truth. I can confirm some of the things yaygrad stated. Sorry if you are a UW grad. 

[GradSchoolTruther]

It might be the truth, but calling current grad students out by name, or at least make them easily identifiable, is a jerk move.

[gotin!]

2 hours ago, GradSchoolTruther said:

It might be the truth, but calling current grad students out by name, or at least make them easily identifiable, is a jerk move.

Will agree that it was not well done.