Info for all Applicants to UPENN

[Angelicasassy]

This is for all applicants to UPENN.

I just got an email from the school saying that they have a 1250 GRE Minimum score they look for, eek. And the range of GPA's is 3.6-4.0. (The GPA was related to my program in education, but the GRE score is school wide).

I don't even know if I should bother applying now. My GPA is not there, and I don't think my GRE will be either! So sad!

[gurumaster8899]

stay strong....i don't believe the GRE part though

[a fragrant plant]

Neither do I believe in the GRE part. Most of us know that the math part doesn't play a huge role in humanities departments. I don't think they'd expect you to score above 600 in math. I'm told that the GRE should not be interpreted as a combination score as they do to SAT.

*UPENN is not on my list.

[coyabean]

Penn is on my list and I have an 1180 or something. I'm still going for it!!!! I have a superstar LOR and research experience. Maybe I'll be one of the ones they cull from the secondary pile when they look for gems? Who knows. Oh man. This is disheartening but I'm going for it. I know of too many exceptions to these things, first hand. I'm talking a guy who is at Cornell in a econ with a sub 3.0 GPA. It's worth it to me.

[ristastic]

Thanks for posting this! I'm applying to UPenn for art history, GRE 1240 and GPA 3.8. I hope they overlook those last 10 points and don't throw out my application based on a hard line GRE score cut-off. I think that's my worst fear with all of these applications.

[JerryLandis]

That's pretty cheeky, charging a hefty application fee and then tossing out people's applications based on GRE scores [presumably] without looking at anything else. Schools with minimum GRE scores should really just post them on their websites so as not to waste applicants' time and money.

Did the email say that they will not consider someone with a sub-1250 score, or did it just say that 1250 was the score they generally look for? And is this for the graduate school as a whole, for a specific department, for PhD and MA students, or what? My GPA is definitely high enough, but I have a 1210 on the GRE.

May I ask what you asked in your email to them that solicited this reply? So far no calls or emails I have made to admissions departments have been answered (again, what are they doing with all the money from those application fees?), so I've pretty much given up on wasting my time trying to contact them.

[tarski]

That's interesting... I've received emails from UPenn before (like the one for the address to send your sample to) but I never got this one. The philosophy department website says that people generally have "upper 600s" in both sections but doesn't say it's a hard limit.

[joro]

I'm not applying to UPENN, but I'm applying to other schools where they mention a GRE minimum/average required and GPA. My GRE is a 1250, but my GPA is a 3.11 (yuck ).

[alexis]

I highly doubt there is an automatic cutoff throughout all of the graduate arts & sciences.

Consider this: UPenn's psychology program publishes the range of GRE scores of accepted students from the previous year. Minimum: 540 verbal, 620 quant, 3.5 AW. That adds up to 1160. Now, not saying that the lowest person scored low on BOTH sections, but still--clearly some people got in with lower scores (though they probably also had other great credentials). I don't think anyone should not apply because they scored below 1250. It might apply to the OP's program, I don't know, but I cannot imagine the whole college setting a blanket-level cutoff.

Edited November 11, 2009 by alexis

[Angelicasassy]

Hey,

This is what the email said:

"Our faculty look at each application as a whole, concentrating on the statement of purpose and resume, through which an applicant’s experiences, academic/career goals, and research interests are communicated. Those three elements are the biggest focus for faculty- the summation of the applicant’s dedication and passion for education. At the doctoral level, most of our students’ transcripts indicated a GPA of somewhere between a 3.6-4.0, which most students having some graduate work/degree under their belt. The school-at-large is looking for a GRE score of 1250 and above."

So it seems as if the 1250 is for the whole school. But I suppose they are kinda saying that they look at the application holistically. It's just hard to imagine how holistic it is when actual numbers are thrown into the mix.

[dzk]

Way to misrepresent that e-mail. I'm retaking the GRE soon, but you still freaked me out a little because I have exactly a 1250 right now. It doesn't sound like that 1250 is a hard minimum at all, just what they expect out of most of their students.

How did you do on the reading comprehension part of the GRE? (kidding, kidding!)

[gurumaster8899]

I always thought UPenn was one of the more unpredictable ones, since they don't publish a lot of admission stats...

[JerryLandis]

Note that it also says they look for a 1250 'at the doctoral level.' What they seek in PhD students won't be the same as what they seek in MA students. Or at least it better not be.

[tetrisenthusiast]

This is for all applicants to UPENN.

I just got an email from the school saying that they have a 1250 GRE Minimum score they look for, eek. And the range of GPA's is 3.6-4.0. (The GPA was related to my program in education, but the GRE score is school wide).

I don't even know if I should bother applying now. My GPA is not there, and I don't think my GRE will be either! So sad!

Don't write yourself off just yet. Instead, try to think about the admissions process from the adcomm's perspective. If I recall correctly, UPenn waives tuition and pays a modest (<$20,000) 9-month living stipend for all students admitted to a PhD program at their GSE; this would represent a significant investment on their part for each candidate. It's extremely unlikely that these programs would simply use a formula to create an index to judge solely according to two numbers. There are reasons why they ask for a CV, a personal statement, and letters of recommendation.

The GPA may be used as an indicator of an applicant's work ethic. Due to varying degrees of grade inflation at undergraduate institutions, the GRE may be used as a benchmark to compare applicants' capacities to handle a rigorous course of study. Together, GPA and GRE are only useful insofar as they allow schools to judge whether someone would have the minimum diligence and acumen required to complete at least 2 years of graduate-level classes and spend multiple years conducting substantive research in the chosen field.

Work experience can be quite useful in gauging a student's non-academic level of maturity, and relevant experience. Considering that some doctoral programs (e.g., at the Harvard GSE) require students to work as TAs and RAs, it is important to know whether someone has proven his or her capacity beyond the classroom. Furthermore, for a field such as education that is largely informed by practice, an applicant who has practical, as opposed to purely theoretical, knowledge of the subject may not need to worry so much about the GPA, especially if he or she graduated a number of years ago. If you look at the CVs of many professors at the top schools of education, you'll find that a large number worked as teachers before earning their doctorates.

Ultimately, these schools would like to admit a group of students who will make significant contributions to their fields of study. Remember that a PhD provides training for roles in research-based or academic settings. The school must ensure that you are capable of achieving highly at that level and in those roles, and that they (and their faculty) are capable of fostering your talents accordingly (hence the "fit" of the school).

Study hard for your GREs if you're worried that much about your GPA, but don't think that a lackluster number for either precludes you from consideration at UPenn. Remember that you're not applying to an engineering program or to a business school (not to impugn the adcomms of either). These are people dedicated to the field of education, so they, more than any other group, are likely to view your application holistically.

Plus, UPenn and Vanderbilt don't charge application fees for their education programs

Best of luck this cycle!

[tetrisenthusiast]

I always thought UPenn was one of the more unpredictable ones, since they don't publish a lot of admission stats...

http://www.gse.upenn.edu/node/117

This might be useful. The US News numbers concerning the admission rate for their doctoral programs may be misleading, as US News may not have disaggregated the EdD and PhD applicants. Also, the numbers published by Penn only reflect those students who actually matriculated, as opposed to those who were admitted.

[Angelicasassy]

http://www.gse.upenn.edu/node/117

This might be useful. The US News numbers concerning the admission rate for their doctoral programs may be misleading, as US News may not have disaggregated the EdD and PhD applicants. Also, the numbers published by Penn only reflect those students who actually matriculated, as opposed to those who were admitted.

OMG, that just made me feel worse. Eek. I am starting to get very depressed abt this application process (might have something to do with the test I just bombed as well).