Graduate Transfer Situation

[CB21]

So, to make a long story... not as long:

 I just completed 50% of my MA in Art History. I went to the CAA Conference and quickly discovered how much my school is not offering, that I was not being challenged, and it was just not a good fit overall. 

Last day for dropping courses without losing money was this past Saturday (the first week of classes). Not wanting to waste any more money, I dropped my courses. 

I am now searching for an MA or MA to PhD program that I can transfer into (preferably ones that will accept SOME credits earned already or one year MA programs). I don't want to lose more than a semester and am finding it hard to identify which schools accept transfers.

I am currently just calling institutes to find out but could use some guidance in finding decent schools. My undergrad was in Dance so I am still fairly new to the field.

I am interested in contemporary art and museum education. My passion is street art.

Any help is appreciated. 

[rising_star]

That's going to be tough. Most institutions will only let you transfer in 9-12 credit hours (so about one semester worth of work). Are there specific areas which you think you're lacking in? If so, could you potentially just take courses in those areas before applying to PhD programs?

[qwer7890]

I'm not sure you'll have much luck finding an 'MA to PhD' program that will accept transfer credits from a partially-completed MA degree... in terms of PhD programs: students who enter with an MA degree (in the same field) can generally apply to get some sort of reduction in their coursework requirements, but even this varies from school to school -- some programs expect all students to take a full docket of coursework regardless of whether they're coming in with an MA.

In terms of other terminal MA programs, I'm not sure how it would work with transferring credit. I suppose it would vary considerably from institution to institution. But in terms of finding decent programs: given your interests in museum education and contemporary art, you might do well to look at curatorial/museum studies oriented MA programs. To start, check out: Bard curatorial studies, Visual & Critical studies at the SAIC, Museum Studies at George Washington University... and keep searching along those lines.

Good luck!

[CB21]

rising_star:

Unfortunately because my undergraduate is in dance I feel I lack a fair amount however I'd not thought of this so I'll take a look at entry requirements for PhD programs.

Thank you for your help!

[CB21]

1 hour ago, qwer7890 said:

I'm not sure you'll have much luck finding an 'MA to PhD' program that will accept transfer credits from a partially-completed MA degree... in terms of PhD programs: students who enter with an MA degree (in the same field) can generally apply to get some sort of reduction in their coursework requirements, but even this varies from school to school -- some programs expect all students to take a full docket of coursework regardless of whether they're coming in with an MA.

In terms of other terminal MA programs, I'm not sure how it would work with transferring credit. I suppose it would vary considerably from institution to institution. But in terms of finding decent programs: given your interests in museum education and contemporary art, you might do well to look at curatorial/museum studies oriented MA programs. To start, check out: Bard curatorial studies, Visual & Critical studies at the SAIC, Museum Studies at George Washington University... and keep searching along those lines.

Good luck!

Thank you for this information, I am actually looking into the programs you've mentioned. It's a case now of whether they'll accept late applications or not. (I really don't want to have to wait until Fall 2017). So far SAIC will and Bard will not. I just hate to see my entire year of work wasted but I know that going to a legitimate program will be worth the sacrifice.

[northeastregional]

Honestly, I think you've made a mistake and you need to try to get back into your previous MA program. It's unfortunate that you feel there isn't much they can offer, but right now your sunk costs, work, and time have yielded you nothing on paper. I think you would be very lucky to get a semester's worth of transfer credits but the larger concern is how other programs will perceive your uncompleted MA. To put it very bluntly, it makes you look flakey. Completion rates are a very important part of how universities divide funding among departments. If you try to transfer, you will be applying as a student who has already failed to complete the first steps in what will prove to be a very long road to the PhD. It's difficult to imagine a competitive department wanting to make an investment in you when there will receive more than enough applications from a students who have not walked away from MA programs.

[brown_eyed_girl]

I agree with northeastregional. Without knowing the specifics of your program, it's hard to know whether it's as ill-respected and lacking as you seem to think it is, but I wouldn't let one weekend at CAA lead you to suddenly drop out when you're already half way through! It seems like a very sudden decision and you don't mention any of the specifics of why the school is a poor fit, but you did decide to go there initially so presumably it had something that you liked.

While there may be better programs out there for your needs or in terms of prestige, it's unlikely that they'll accept late applications, meaning waiting till Fall 2017, and they will be competitive so there's no guarantee of getting in. It also won't help that you've dropped a program halfway through. Then the issue of transfer credits -- schools want you to complete their own program, and usually accept very few if any transfer credits. In my MA/PhD program, for example, those who entered with MAs have to do the exact same amount of coursework as those entering with just BAs. That means you would basically be starting over. Whether that is worth it to you is a personal choice, of course, but you'll also have to figure out what you're doing between now and fall 2017. 

All this makes me think your best bet is to finish the program you're already in. What areas do you think it's lacking? If it's just that your program is less prestigious than you'd like, rest assured that a lot of people get into very good PhD programs with MAs from low-tier schools. If it's that they don't have faculty or courses in areas you're interested in, I would meet with the program director/DGS in your department and see if you can tailor something to your needs through independent study classes, interdisciplinary work, doing coursework at other affiliated institutions, or internships. You can also ask professors to recommend readings on subjects where you'd like to improve your knowledge base. There are lots of ways to beef up your in-class experiences, so don't throw out the baby with the bath water unless you're really sure you can't get value out of your current program AND you're willing to start from scratch. 

 

[northeastregional]

I would also add that I don't see why you would need to apply to PhD programs. You will just need an MA to work in museum education, especially for contemporary. If you met PhDs working in museum ed at CAA, education was probably a fallback option for them - I'm seeing more museum ed hires with PhDs which is really frustrating/unethical, but that's for another post... And in my experience, the right internships/entry level job is going to help you a lot more in your field than the specifics of your MA. Just wrap up the MA you've started and get yourself on the job market as quickly as possible. The PhD will always be there - you can circle back in five years, ten, whatever.

[CB21]

On February 14, 2016 at 11:20 PM, northeastregional said:

Honestly, I think you've made a mistake and you need to try to get back into your previous MA program. It's unfortunate that you feel there isn't much they can offer, but right now your sunk costs, work, and time have yielded you nothing on paper. I think you would be very lucky to get a semester's worth of transfer credits but the larger concern is how other programs will perceive your uncompleted MA. To put it very bluntly, it makes you look flakey. Completion rates are a very important part of how universities divide funding among departments. If you try to transfer, you will be applying as a student who has already failed to complete the first steps in what will prove to be a very long road to the PhD. It's difficult to imagine a competitive department wanting to make an investment in you when there will receive more than enough applications from a students who have not walked away from MA programs.

I can certainly understand your view on this. Let me see if it at all changes with some added details. 

I currently attend Academy of Art University, the online (100% online) graduate program in Art History. I chose the school because at the time I didn't have other options, no schools near me that offered a graduate degree in Art History and I couldn't move to an on-campus program at the time. 

I did research on my school over the past two weeks and found multiple articles calling the school out on its money grubbing and less than commendable statistics. It's a for-profit school which accepts 100% of undergraduate applicants. The graduate program in art history is only about 2 years old and my advisor would not give me any stats on our program (not even how many were currently enrolled). 

I spoke to an alum of the (also new) undergrad program in Art History. She is now in a masters program but is working one-on-one with professors because her writing and critical thinking skills are way below her classmates'. When she was in the program a professor told her that she was a guinea pig and didn't need to be, that there were many better programs out there.

I look at the work of my classmates and don't feel that it is graduate level work, there is only one professor that seems to actually push students and challenge them. Some just give A's while others give grades without comments on papers whatsoever (each, I've addressed). 

I do not feel like sinking another $30,00 into the institution to finish this lack-luster degree, especially with no internship or hands-on experience. At this point starting over, if it means properly, will be worth it to me.

If you still think I'm crazy, please say so.

AAU's current 5 yr. graduation rate is 33%. 

They said things to get me into the program and have had trouble delivering. (To give you an idea, getting ahold of a student I.D. was quite a task.) A focus had to be chosen at the beginning and only one class existed in my chosen focus, something that was later shoved off as, "we don't have focuses here, we want look at a wide range of topics", however I couldn't be admitted into the grad program until I had chosen said focus.

Edited February 15, 2016 by CB21
More details

[northeastregional]

I don't think you're crazy - this is just a really bad situation and I'm sympathetic. A $30k loss is very difficult to swallow, but no, I don't think you should spend another $30k to finish. Is the program accredited?

The upside to these new details is that I think quitting won't be damaging to you when you reapply to MA programs. Leave it off your CV entirely - you don't have to tell anyone you were enrolled in this program. If there are questions about the gap on your CV, you can simply say you took time away from the job market for personal reasons.

[CB21]

Northeastregional, I appreciate the reassurance. It is a really bad situation, and I'm trying my best to not freak out. I know it is for the best. The timing is the killer, almost all good programs' deadlines have passed. SAIC did agree to take my application late, I'm very hopeful. 

Let me ask your opinion on this: As far as reference letters, I really only have my (now former) professors to ask. Is this a bad idea considering the direct connection to the school? I do have a good relationship with 3 professors with a standing GPA of 3.7. My background is in dance, and I graduated undergrad in '09. My art history connections are limited. I have been volunteering for a local arts org. but only for a few months.

[brown_eyed_girl]

Hmm, I can see why you don't want to continue, and I agree that spending more money on a for-profit school is unwise. If you were in a low-ranked accredited non-profit university, I would stand by my previous advice, but a for-profit school is a totally different ballpark.  

Since you don't have much experience in art history and have missed most deadlines, my advice would be to enroll in some art history courses at a local, accredited nonprofit school (like a community college or university extension course) to get some basic undergraduate art history courses on your transcript and build connections with professors in an in-person course environment, and see if you can find some other internship or work experience in the art world to beef up your CV in the meantime until reapplying.  

 

 

[CB21]

On February 15, 2016 at 4:14 PM, brown_eyed_girl said:

Hmm, I can see why you don't want to continue, and I agree that spending more money on a for-profit school is unwise. If you were in a low-ranked accredited non-profit university, I would stand by my previous advice, but a for-profit school is a totally different ballpark.  

Since you don't have much experience in art history and have missed most deadlines, my advice would be to enroll in some art history courses at a local, accredited nonprofit school (like a community college or university extension course) to get some basic undergraduate art history courses on your transcript and build connections with professors in an in-person course environment, and see if you can find some other internship or work experience in the art world to beef up your CV in the meantime until reapplying.  

 

 

Thank you. And I whole-heartedly agree, if my school was just not-so-hot I would've stuck it out. 

I, thankfully, have found a few schools that will accept late applications. Here's hoping! If it's a no-go, then I will certainly heed your above advice.

Do you think I should be straight forward about my situation or leave the school (and professors as references) out entirely? 

[feelthebern16]

What schools did you find? @CB21

[CB21]

So far just SAIC, Goldsmiths, and University at Buffalo (visual studies). I'm mainly looking for schools with contemporary art or museum education. I want to focus on street art in my thesis.

@feelthebern16

Edited February 17, 2016 by CB21
Response

[feelthebern16]

Thanks @cb21! Good to know. Good luck!