Harvard or Stanford GSE for Masters?

[shookienewman]

Hi y'all,

So I'm trying to decide what school to attend this fall. I'm visiting my last two schools in early April, but I'm trying to think through the questions I need answered to make a decision so that I can make the most of my visits.

I was accepted at five schools, but I think I have narrowed it down to Harvard GSE (EPM program) and Stanford GSE (POLS program). Both programs are a great fit for my area of interest, and I appreciate the focus on management and leadership they both offer.

As background, I plan to focus on systematic causes for educational inequality, particularly in higher education completion. Remarkably few low income students are completing their associates or bachelors degrees. I have been helping students enter college, and now I want to work to give those students an opportunity for college success. I plan to eventually get a PhD, but I also am interested in potentially running retention and graduation programs with an institute of higher ed or an educational foundation in the meantime.

These are some of the things I've been considering thus far:

• Funding - Stanford offered fellowship, yet to hear from Harvard on financial aid. I had heard there's very little in the way of fellowships/GA positions at Harvard, but a current student mentioned that it's there if you look for it.
• Cohort Size - Stanford is smaller (though I'm not sure if that's a pro or con for networking)
• Campus Life -
  • What I've read online (may not be true) is that there's a lot of obvious ambition/competitiveness at Harvard and that Stanford is more relaxed (but still high achieving). I probably would do best in a collaborative rather than competitive environment.
  • Harvard has student housing that allows pets. (My dog is my best friend. Go ahead; judge me.)
  • Harvard is much colder than California, but I don't want that to necessarily dictate my decisions.
• Program
  • Stanford - MA, has "shark tank" like project where students present a proposal on a real world problem, can take courses in other fields
  • Harvard - EdM, has strong focus on practical solutions and entrepreneurship, can take courses in other fields

Questions I still have include:

• What's the advantage of a small cohort? Of a larger cohort?
• What are most alumni now doing? What percentage are focused on higher ed?
• What kind of funding is actually available at Harvard? 

Does anyone have advice on how to make a decision or other factors that I should be considering?

[Vulpix]

I'm choosing between HGSE and Penn GSE.  I have heard about Stanford's very small size.  I would wonder if that's stifling, either intellectually or network-wise (I know for my program, it would have been around 15-20 people).  You would, just numerically, make fewer "connections", at least in meeting people, but if they are true quality connections vs. spread thinner in a program of 60-80ish people (that's what IEP is, I think your program is similarly large?), then maybe a smaller, tight-knit cohort is worth it.  I have heard that HGSE programs are still tight-knit despite being larger (after all, 60 people isn't *that* large).  Also, I think it's small enough that even if you barely form relationships with 50% of the people, you could still count on your shared experience to provide you with a professional contact after graduation.

I think Harvard funding from past admitted students seems to have ranged from $5K-$20K grants, with average being around $14K or $10K.  Is Stanford also a 1-year program?  Is your fellowship full-funding?  

As for the competitive/ambition thing, I believe this is likely true at Harvard Law or perhaps undergrad, but from the impression I have gotten from alums I know of HGSE (both in my real world friendships with alums, and talking to alums on this site), I get the impression that this is far less of an issue at GSE, because education by nature is a much less competitive/corporate type of field.  I could be wrong on this.  I am also visiting HGSE at the end of the month, so I'm sure we'll both get a better impression of it then!

[shookienewman]

Thanks for responding, @Heather1011. The fellowship from Stanford is 10K and is a 1 year program. Good to hear that there are funding opportunities at Harvard as well. The website made it sound like there would be next to nothing, so I was pretty concerned. I guess that makes things about even between them. They just seems so evenly matched in a lot of ways.

Thanks for sharing your HGSE knowledge!

Edited March 14, 2016 by shookienewman
typo

[Vulpix]

7 minutes ago, shookienewman said:

Thanks for responding, @Heather1011. The fellowship from Stanford is 10K and is a 1 year program. Good to hear that there are funding opportunities at Harvard as well. The website made it sound like there would be next to nothing, so I was pretty concerned. I guess that makes things about even between them. They just seems so evenly matched in a lot of ways.

Thanks for sharing your HGSE knowledge!

I think the difference is that HGSE's funding is almost exclusively need-based, unless you get the specific Urban Scholars/other merit awards, which are rare.  I don't really understand how they gauge that need, though, because we will all be out of work for the year we are full time students, so certainly the vast majority "need" the support.  I've heard they consider pre-existing loan debt and other factors... 

Also, we should hear from HGSE Financial Aid the last week of March.

Edited March 14, 2016 by Heather1011

[shookienewman]

So this post isn't really for me or for Heather... It's for anyone who is looking at these schools in the future. 

I ended up deciding on Stanford for the following reasons:

• Coursework - Because my focus on the transition to college spanned both K-12 and Higher Ed, the POLS program offered me the greatest level of flexibility to study both. The cohort is focused on the whole continuum, and they end up working in a variety of sectors (charter, public, higher ed, nonprofit, etc.). Also, because Stanford operates on the quarter system, I have the opportunity to take a greater variety of coursework, essentially an extra semester's worth of classes. I felt like this was the best use of my time.
• Leadership - The focus on leadership through the POLS seminar was really attractive to me. During the Autumn quarter, the seminar is used to study different leadership theories, and in the Winter & Spring the seminar is used to put those theories into practice. All of that culminates in the POLS Project, which I think really demonstrates practical knowledge to a future employer. The director emphasized that the program was there for your personal development and growth, and his goal was to help you figure out what kind of leader you wanted to be in what kind of organization.
• General Atmosphere - The POLS program was just a great cultural fit for me. The director of the program, David Brazer, was very down to earth and eager to talk with us individually. Stanford definitely did not pull out the "bells and whistles" for prospective students. Some schools I visited were a little more flashy, and I appreciated that I didn't feel like I was being sold something. I just felt like I was in a community of helpful people. We had four different chances to interact with current students through a number of activities, and we had several reception/meals with current staff and faculty. Everyone was fantastic. 
• Funding - I had a slightly better financial aid package from Stanford, but the differences were pretty slight.
• Marriage & Travel - This will vary for everyone, but travel affected my decision. I am married, but my husband is going to remain at his current job in Texas and visit when he can. Flights to San Francisco were significantly cheaper, and weather conditions are not something we needed to worry about as much as Boston.  We also just loved the area - there was so much to do. I really enjoy hiking, and hiking up the coast was so beautiful. We're looking forward to enjoying nature when he comes up to visit
• Latino Issues - I am Mexican American, and the majority of students that I serve are Latino/a. While Stanford is still an elite and primarily white institution, the state of California, like my home base in Texas, is almost 40% hispanic. The flexible coursework gives me good opportunities to take a few courses specifically focused on latino student success, and the organization I choose to partner with on my POLS project has a good chance of being Latino focused. If anyone else in the future is really interested in studying latino success in education, I would also recommend UT Austin. It's a top 10 education program, has great latino research opportunities, and a really socially conscious and diverse faculty. It was really difficult to turn them down. I'm keeping them in mind for a Ph.D.

I still think Harvard is an absolute dream - check out HGSE 2016's board if you want more information about the school. It really is an amazing option to have. There was no "wrong" choice. Many of the prospective students I met were thinking about both schools, and I presume we'll all fall in different places for different reasons. Ultimately, you just have to decide where you will be the most successful.

[COGSCI]

How about research opportunities? If you are considering pursuing PhD or EdD later, I think that would be another important factor to consider, just a thought.

[sheriberi]

@shookienewman I know I'm a little late to this thread, but I was curious to hear about your POLS experience. I hope you got a lot out of it and it suited your needs. 

I'm currently in the same position of choosing between POLS and EPM and would appreciate any insight anyone has that will help me - and anyone in the same boat - make the right choice. (I think you're right though...There isn't really a "wrong" choice!) 

Edited March 10, 2018 by sheriberi