"Never ever pursue a PhD degree if you are not 100% sure" -- Thoughts?

[sanfonts]

Hi there!

With April 15th looming, I've to make one of the most transcendental decisions in my life, and -truth be told- I'm getting sick just by thinking about it. Long story short, I have 2 options to pick: an Oxford PhD in Synthetic Biology or a M.S.E. (Johns Hopkins, Biomedical Engineering).

Most of the people here will agree that doing a Masters isn't required if you are shooting for a PhD, but I assume this advice only applies when one is 100.00% sure about pursuing an academic career. 

So... people who have PhD's or are working towards one: would you advise against picking the doctoral programme if I'm "only" 70-80% sure about it? What are your thoughts on this matter?

 

THANKS!

Edited April 11, 2016 by sanfonts

[doobiebrothers]

It depends on your end goal! Do you want to teach or work in industry, or be able to navigate both?

[GradSchoolTruther]

Depends if you're being funded or not. I would not start a Ph.D. program if I had to pay for it unless I was pretty darn sure I wanted a Ph.D.

[fuzzylogician]

I think a PhD program is hard to get through even if you are 100% motivated. If you don't know that you want it, it'll be even harder. It's something you should really think through and figure out before you embark on a difficult multi-year adventure that will be emotionally taxing, where you could instead work in a profession and increase your earning potential if you choose to instead get a Masters and/or join the workforce. 

I think the important question is what you want the PhD for. Are you hoping for a career in academia? A job that requires the PhD degree or the relevant training? If you don't know, stop and figure that out before you do anything else. If you have a goal that requires the degree, then you need the degree. If you have goals that do not require this degree, then getting it may not be wise, for the reasons I listed above. You may even make yourself over-qualified for some jobs you might want, or may be inexperienced compared to others who did a Masters and got hands-on/internship experience. So it's really about what you want and whether or not the PhD is the right way for you to get there. 

[sanfonts]

26 minutes ago, doobiebrothers said:

It depends on your end goal! Do you want to teach or work in industry, or be able to navigate both?

Excellent question! I want to have the flexibility of working in the industry or following an academic career if things go particularly well during my graduate studies

Maybe people will think about me as someone shallow, but the though of being pigeonholed in a post-doctoral position without a clear path to tenure track and a mediocre pay scares me, although I'd guess that brilliant students do end up enjoying a full professorship, with has its perks compared to industry. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by sanfonts

[doobiebrothers]

no!! I don't think you're shallow at all. These people who judge you for wanting economic stability are the worst kinds of hypocrites and morons--many of them COME from enough money that they don't have to worry, and then hate on those of us who have real financial obligations and concerns. A phd at Oxbridge (is it funded) in STEM carries alot of weight--depending on your debt load, that might be a good place to go! 

also congrats!

[sanfonts]

27 minutes ago, GradSchoolTruther said:

Depends if you're being funded or not. I would not start a Ph.D. program if I had to pay for it unless I was pretty darn sure I wanted a Ph.D.

So... the National Council for Science and Technology of my country (México) will pay for 60% (17000 GBP/year) of the tuition fees and will provide me with a meh stipend (770 GBP/mo) and I'll cover the rest (10,000 GBP/year) with a preferential loan from the Mexican Central Bank (2% rate, interests do not accrue until I've finished my studies).

The director of the programme told me that some interesting opportunities for funding are likely to pop-up during my second year of studies, but I'm not sure whether he's being completely honest or just trying to lure me into the PhD lol

Edited April 11, 2016 by sanfonts
typos

[Neist]

1 minute ago, sanfonts said:

So... the National Council for Science and Technology of my country (México) will pay for 60% (17000 GBP) of so of the tuition fees and will provide me with a meh stipend (770 GBP/mo) and I'll cover the rest (10,000 GBP/year) with a preferential loan from the Mexican Central Bank (2% rate, interests do not accrue until I've finised my studies).

The director of the programme told me that some interesting opportunities for funding are likely to pop-up during my second year of studies, but I'm not sure whether he's being completely honest or just trying to lure me into the PhD lol

Wow. Those Mexican Central Bank loans sound pretty nice. 2%? I want one of those. 

Do UK PhDs work like most European PhDs? Personally, if I'd be finished in 3-4ish years, and I was already somewhat debt free, I'd probably do it. Under that scenario I'd only accrue 30-40k GBP maximum (assuming other funding didn't appear) in debt for an Oxford PhD with a ridiculously low interest loan.

Doesn't sound that bad, to me. But that's me.

[COGSCI]

I think people are saying that because if you are not truely motivated or passionate about your research, it would be hard to commit 5 years+ to finish your PhD. I am sure some people are feeling exactly the same way as you do.

Some schools grant masters degree if a student decides to drop out during their doctoral training (this is different for each institution). How long is the Oxford program? UK PhD only takes about 3 to 4 years so it is pretty close to American standard 2 years masters  why not get a PhD out of it with few more months of effort

Edited April 11, 2016 by COGSCI

[TakeruK]

35 minutes ago, sanfonts said:

I want to have the flexibility of working in the industry or following an academic career if things go particularly well during my graduate studies

I'd echo what @fuzzylogician said. Based on this answer, it sounds like you "need" the PhD to achieve this because you certainly won't have the flexibility of following an academic career without the PhD. So, at this point, the second part of fuzzy's post matters: Will getting a PhD decrease your ability to find non-academic jobs in the future? (i.e. "overqualified"). If not, then I think picking the PhD makes sense as long as it makes financial sense to you (since that's a personal thing, I can't really advise on that).

When I say, "don't do a PhD unless you are 100% sure you want to do it", I mean that you are 100% sure you do need a PhD to achieve your goals. And if your goals include flexibility to be in academia, then you need a PhD. To me, it doesn't mean that you have to be 100% set on academia before you start your PhD. I don't think this is realistic either. I came into my PhD program with one career goal being academia but not making that my sole goal. And, this is normal---our school survey incoming grad students and compare the % of students who enter wanting to work in academia with the % who leave feeling the same way. Both numbers are below 100%.

[eternallyephemeral]

Given that your Oxford PhD would be partially funded, and given the shortened timeline of European PhDs compared to North American ones, in this case I think there isn't as much of a difference between a 2-year Masters program and a 3-year PhD program, except that you want to keep your options open which means the PhD would be a better bet in this situation.

I also don't agree with the '100% sure' phrase. I understand where people are coming from, but in real situations I think it just serves to make people that are nervous but well-prepared and willing to work hard more reasons to be nervous. Given the prevalence of impostor syndrome and the increased self-doubt and questioning that happens when you're more intelligent and more reflective, if you're 70-80% sure, you're not going into tons of debt or signing up for something that takes (relatively) tons of time, then I would say go for it. If you want to, of course.