Most Holistic Admissions Process? Help!

[theominousfuture]

Hey all! I'm a Psych BA (3.5 GPA, 3.9 last 60 hours) starting a post-bacc program at SUNY New Paltz this summer. Background: I've worked with selectively mute kids, I'm in the process publishing a lit review/article in an undergrad journal on the subject, assisted in a classroom that had special needs children, and the research team that I'm on does a great deal of language development work and through the team, I'll get experience becoming certified in and administering several language assessments very commonly used by speech language pathologists to children on a large scale.

After my post-bacc, I'm thinking of applying to these 18 schools: LIU Brooklyn, NYU, Columbia, Hunter College, New York Medical College, SUNY New Paltz, Montclair, Kean, Northeastern, MGH, Penn State, University of Pittsburgh, Southern Connecticut State University, UConn, Sacred Heart, University of Central Florida, Jacksonville University, and Howard University. 

Does anyone know how holistically any of these schools view applications? I'm planning on doing well on the GRE and my post-bacc but I want to know how schools will look at my other experiences. Has anyone had experience with these admissions offices and can speak to how thorough they are? 

I would also prefer to stay in NYC or the tri-state area so does anyone have and info on specifically those schools?

I'm panicking a whole year in advance and this website's community keeps me sane. Thank you all for your time and advice.

 

[Phonemenon]

I would personally recommend applying to way less schools than that. I found the application process to be extremely stressful just with applying to 8 schools, which is less than half of what you're considering. With your current stats and experience, I would narrow it down to 10 or less. (Please take this with a grain of salt, of course.)

I can only attest to Kean and Pitt, as they're the only ones on your list that I applied to, but I do know that Pitt seems to prioritize GPA/GRE scores because they're such a competitive and highly-ranked program. However, I was waitlisted there was a 3.49 GPA (I'm an in-field applicant). I did have above average GRE scores and I was an undergrad at Pitt, though. Kean also seems to utilize GPA quite heavily, but not to the same extent.

From my experience, all programs will at least consider your other experiences, but truthfully, the less applicants a program receives, the more likely they are to thoroughly consider each dimension of your application. Applying solely to competitive schools in the tri-state area might backfire if you're looking for programs that will consider you more holistically.

Of course, this is all just my personal experience and opinion. As long as you do well on the GRE and in your post-bacc classes, I do think you have very little to worry about. I'd curate your list to eliminate some schools and include one or two lesser applied-to programs if you're truly that concern, but I think you're in a very good position as is.

[jmk]

If you apply to 18 schools with your current grades and experience, I would be surprised if you didn't get in anywhere. If you do pretty well in your post-bacc, and at least a 150/150 split on the GRE, I would think that number would be higher. Unless you are planning to get C's in your postbacc and bomb the GRE, you look like a strong candidate. 

I actually have no insight to those schools and how they review applications, being an applicant this Fall myself! It definitely appears that GPA and GRE make up the ice cream in the sundae, with EC's being the toppings. 

 

I have similar stats and am also looking to cast a wide net due to wanting to stay on the West Coast, which is also a highly competitive area. The best advice a classmate told me was quality, not quantity, and start early. She completed all of her essays in the summer, ordered her transcripts, and set up a manila envelope for each program with dates on the front, etc. She also polished up her resume, and communicated any questions to target programs then. Her hard work during summer made the application process much more streamlined than students who started in the Fall. 

[moni28]

On April 17, 2016 at 2:31 PM, theominousfuture said:

Hey all! I'm a Psych BA (3.5 GPA, 3.9 last 60 hours) starting a post-bacc program at SUNY New Paltz this summer. Background: I've worked with selectively mute kids, I'm in the process publishing a lit review/article in an undergrad journal on the subject, assisted in a classroom that had special needs children, and the research team that I'm on does a great deal of language development work and through the team, I'll get experience becoming certified in and administering several language assessments very commonly used by speech language pathologists to children on a large scale.

After my post-bacc, I'm thinking of applying to these 18 schools: LIU Brooklyn, NYU, Columbia, Hunter College, New York Medical College, SUNY New Paltz, Montclair, Kean, Northeastern, MGH, Penn State, University of Pittsburgh, Southern Connecticut State University, UConn, Sacred Heart, University of Central Florida, Jacksonville University, and Howard University. 

Does anyone know how holistically any of these schools view applications? I'm planning on doing well on the GRE and my post-bacc but I want to know how schools will look at my other experiences. Has anyone had experience with these admissions offices and can speak to how thorough they are? 

I would also prefer to stay in NYC or the tri-state area so does anyone have and info on specifically those schools?

I'm panicking a whole year in advance and this website's community keeps me sane. Thank you all for your time and advice.

 

@theominousfuture I can give you some insight about SUNY New Paltz and University of Central Florida  .I attended SUNY New Paltz for my undergrad, and I know that they look quite holistically at grad school applications. I know people who have been accepted with strong GPA's, but lower GRE's. If you have any questions about courses or professors with the Post-Bacc there, definitely let me know . Even though I did my full undergrad there, most of the profs who teach the lecture style courses also teach the online Post-Bacc courses. I currently attend University of Central Florida for graduate school, and they seek diversity, as the largest SLP program in the country. They accept people both with and without previous undergrad experience, and I've heard that they place a lot of emphasis on your personal statement. If you have any other questions about these schools, feel free to ask me!

Edited April 18, 2016 by moni28

[theominousfuture]

16 hours ago, jmk said:

If you apply to 18 schools with your current grades and experience, I would be surprised if you didn't get in anywhere. If you do pretty well in your post-bacc, and at least a 150/150 split on the GRE, I would think that number would be higher. Unless you are planning to get C's in your postbacc and bomb the GRE, you look like a strong candidate. 

I actually have no insight to those schools and how they review applications, being an applicant this Fall myself! It definitely appears that GPA and GRE make up the ice cream in the sundae, with EC's being the toppings. 

 

I have similar stats and am also looking to cast a wide net due to wanting to stay on the West Coast, which is also a highly competitive area. The best advice a classmate told me was quality, not quantity, and start early. She completed all of her essays in the summer, ordered her transcripts, and set up a manila envelope for each program with dates on the front, etc. She also polished up her resume, and communicated any questions to target programs then. Her hard work during summer made the application process much more streamlined than students who started in the Fall. 

Your classmate gave some fantastic advice! I'm gonna get started on a massive excel spreadsheet for all my schools. Hopefully I can be as organized by the time application season rolls around. I'm a bit concerned about letters of rec. I trust my recommenders but I feel like I'll overwhelm them with so many schools but I want to keep my options open!

[SpeechieM]

4 minutes ago, theominousfuture said:

Your classmate gave some fantastic advice! I'm gonna get started on a massive excel spreadsheet for all my schools. Hopefully I can be as organized by the time application season rolls around. I'm a bit concerned about letters of rec. I trust my recommenders but I feel like I'll overwhelm them with so many schools but I want to keep my options open!

I'm not sure if you've thought about the financial aspect of your applications yet but applying to 18 schools is going to be INCREDIBLY expensive (each application ranges from ~$60-120). I really recommend you go through your list and start trying to picture yourself at each of the schools. I was able to eliminate a lot of choices by only applying to schools that I could ACTUALLY see myself attending. Maybe start scheduling visits and tours. Trust me you're not going to want to write 18 different essays and go through the process that many times, even if some are on CSDCAS.

Also, out of the schools you listed I applied to Columbia, NYU, Montclair, and the University of Pittsburgh so if you want any specific info on those schools and how the process was, let me know (I was accepted to University of Pittsburgh and Montclair, waitlisted to NYU, and rejected to Columbia).

[theominousfuture]

22 minutes ago, SpeechieM said:

I'm not sure if you've thought about the financial aspect of your applications yet but applying to 18 schools is going to be INCREDIBLY expensive (each application ranges from ~$60-120). I really recommend you go through your list and start trying to picture yourself at each of the schools. I was able to eliminate a lot of choices by only applying to schools that I could ACTUALLY see myself attending. Maybe start scheduling visits and tours. Trust me you're not going to want to write 18 different essays and go through the process that many times, even if some are on CSDCAS.

Also, out of the schools you listed I applied to Columbia, NYU, Montclair, and the University of Pittsburgh so if you want any specific info on those schools and how the process was, let me know (I was accepted to University of Pittsburgh and Montclair, waitlisted to NYU, and rejected to Columbia).

Very true, it's going to be a pricey process. I feel like I'm not a strong enough candidate to be shortening my list and I really like each of the programs/could see myself attending  

What were your impressions of the Montclair admissions process? Did you talk to anyone who gave you the sense that they were holistic reviewers?

[SpeechieM]

9 minutes ago, theominousfuture said:

Very true, it's going to be a pricey process. I feel like I'm not a strong enough candidate to be shortening my list and I really like each of the programs/could see myself attending  

What were your impressions of the Montclair admissions process? Did you talk to anyone who gave you the sense that they were holistic reviewers?

Everyone was really friendly throughout the whole process! I feel like they do look at everyones application holistically but I don't really have any evidence to back that up other than the fact that they actually reserve about half of their acceptances for out of fielders or those "without a background". I also disagree that you're not a strong candidate, I think based on what you've told us you are a very strong candidate with great experience! If you want reference, I'm going in with a Speech background and my GPA is 3.86 and my GRE scores were 154V 152Q. Although it's not as high ranked as Pitt, I actually decided to attend Montclair if that says anything about how much I like the program!

[jmk]

Don't forget that most program on CSDCAS only requires letters of rec (to CSDCAS) versus per program. So if you apply to 10 programs on CSDCAS, you only need two (academic) letters of rec, and one professional letter. 

I am hoping to apply to 15, which will be around 2.5 grand. I would rather spend the money once and cast a wider net with hopefully options to choose from, than have to repeat the process. My GPA is a 3.55 cumulative with 4.0 prereq and 3.85 last 60, so we are at similar stats. After watching many of my classmates face a slew of rejections from CA programs, I am pretty motivated to up my chances with a wider net! 

[CBG321]

5 hours ago, theominousfuture said:

Very true, it's going to be a pricey process. I feel like I'm not a strong enough candidate to be shortening my list and I really like each of the programs/could see myself attending  

What were your impressions of the Montclair admissions process? Did you talk to anyone who gave you the sense that they were holistic reviewers?

Why do you feel you aren't a strong candidate?  If I read your OP correctly you still have an opportunity to raise your GPA in post-bacc classes and already showed improvement with your last 60 units.  Plus your outside experience is different/unique which is fantastic.

I agree I don't think 18 schools is necessary (unless they are all crazy competitive programs), the application process is a lot more time consuming/stressful/expensive than I had anticipated, I also applied to 8 programs myself.  But it is a lot easier to write an essay about a school you researched a lot or were able to visit and 18 schools would take a long time!  And while i'm sure you will be conscientious, juggling applications while in school makes it easier to make mistakes, miss deadlines etc if you aren't careful.  

Your choice of course but even knocking 5-8 off that list would save you a ton of money and perhaps make stronger essays!  Good luck!

[MangoSmoothie]

5 hours ago, theominousfuture said:

Very true, it's going to be a pricey process. I feel like I'm not a strong enough candidate to be shortening my list and I really like each of the programs/could see myself attending  

What were your impressions of the Montclair admissions process? Did you talk to anyone who gave you the sense that they were holistic reviewers?

Quality is better than quantity. You need to tailor your applications to each school, which can require whole new SOPs, and at the very least will require sections of your SOP tailored to different schools. To do this takes time to research and time to articulate truly why you want to go to a particular program. Plus you need time to allow for revisions that you do and that you have your peers or professors do. Leaving this information out of your application is going to hurt you far more than applying to fewer schools, I guarantee it. Things like "great city and opportunities!" and "highly ranked and respected faculty!" don't cut it.

I understand wanting to apply to a lot of schools, but 18 is an extremely high number. As long as you get a 4.0 or damn close to it and do well on the GREs (I would recommend aiming for at least 155 in each; 150 is nearly exactly average for this field, and it's better to be above average than average if you're trying to be a strong candidate), you wouldn't be considered a weak candidate.

[Alyspeechie]

Holistic admissions does not exist anymore. This is a truth that none or very few of the schools are willing to admit because they want your $$. I am sorry to be so blunt, but from my own and others experiences, the ad coms have become OBSESSED with perfect scores and GPAs. They want robots, not ordinary people.

[MangoSmoothie]

28 minutes ago, Alyspeechie said:

Holistic admissions does not exist anymore. This is a truth that none or very few of the schools are willing to admit because they want your $$. I am sorry to be so blunt, but from my own and others experiences, the ad coms have become OBSESSED with perfect scores and GPAs. They want robots, not ordinary people.

Browsing these forums will easily show you otherwise. Personally, I believe if you're coming right from an SLP undergrad, it is more likely to be true that you need to have very high grades; your undergrad experience has been the bulk of your related experiences in life to SLP, and you need those grades to show you will be competent in graduate school. I do not fault schools for this process, because they need something to show them you will succeed, and there aren't many ways a 22-year-old can truly show that. However, out-of-fielders and non-traditional applicants can boost their applications with related life experiences that often span longer periods of time than the traditional 4 year B.A./B.S. to master's SLP student. I was both out-of-field and nontraditional, with a 3.25 in my undergrad when I applied and accepted to five programs. My friends in my post-bacc, some straight from undergrad, others like me who'd done other things for a few years, also had around 3.3 GPAs, and they're all in grad programs now. I can count just as many people I know in an SLP master's program now who don't fit your criteria as those who do, although I admit, most of the ones who don't have perfect scores and GPAs are out-of-field and some are non-traditional, and their SLP grades were excellent. Sometimes, it just takes time and experience to make yourself a better applicant and to make up for less-than-stellar grades.

I'm sorry you and those around you have had this experience. But myself and many others have had just the opposite. I'm starting to digress, but I don't want anyone to be discouraged from applying because of this post, because it's blatantly not true. There is no universal formula for admission, and by the time of application, some things are out of your control, so control the things you can (like your SOP, GRE, etc)., and truly learn about the programs you're applying to. Some schools might only care about numbers, but there's far more that (I believe) don't value only GPA and GRE.

Edited April 19, 2016 by MangoSmoothie

[theominousfuture]

14 hours ago, SpeechieM said:

Everyone was really friendly throughout the whole process! I feel like they do look at everyones application holistically but I don't really have any evidence to back that up other than the fact that they actually reserve about half of their acceptances for out of fielders or those "without a background". I also disagree that you're not a strong candidate, I think based on what you've told us you are a very strong candidate with great experience! If you want reference, I'm going in with a Speech background and my GPA is 3.86 and my GRE scores were 154V 152Q. Although it's not as high ranked as Pitt, I actually decided to attend Montclair if that says anything about how much I like the program!

I'm glad you're in a program you love! It's nice that Montclair is so open to out of field applicants. I guess I'm a bit intimidated by the kick ass GPAs and GRE scores of the SLP undergrads I see on these forums! 

[Gingiestrong]

12 hours ago, Alyspeechie said:

Holistic admissions does not exist anymore. This is a truth that none or very few of the schools are willing to admit because they want your $$. I am sorry to be so blunt, but from my own and others experiences, the ad coms have become OBSESSED with perfect scores and GPAs. They want robots, not ordinary people.

I'd have to disagree with this. My GPA and GRE were in the low-average range (compared to the scores I see on this site), and I was still accepted to 2/5 programs. I'm almost positive that my acceptances were based on a combination of my experiences, letters of rec, and SOP, because my scores were not competitive at all. Most people on this site would see my stats and immediately think "damn, that's a weak candidate", but from experience, I think that if you spend enough time tailoring each application and doing your research on programs, you have a good shot at getting in. Like @MangoSmoothie said, quality is better than quantity! 

[kumapanda]

13 hours ago, Alyspeechie said:

Holistic admissions does not exist anymore. This is a truth that none or very few of the schools are willing to admit because they want your $$. I am sorry to be so blunt, but from my own and others experiences, the ad coms have become OBSESSED with perfect scores and GPAs. They want robots, not ordinary people.

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.  I got into a program and was even offered interviews at two programs that are known for having high expectations for GPAs and GRE scores.  You can have the high statistics, but you still need to stand out among the other candidates and I think that makes up for it when schools look at your extracurriculars, LORs, and personal statements. 

To OP, I know going on this forum makes it feel like it's only possible to get into your dream school with high GPAs and GRE scores, but having an average statistic is more common than you think.  I've met people, not necessarily from this field but still applying to competitive fields, and some of them have managed to get into programs despite having a less than perfect score.  Your GPA is higher than mine and I think you can do well on the GREs if you study hard for it.    

I would narrow down your choices on applying to programs though because 18 schools will cost a lot of time and won't be cheap.  As others before me said, it's better to have quality over quantity.  I applied to 10 programs and I felt that was exhausting because I had to personalize 10 personal statements and it took a toll on me emotionally and even physically. 

It's possible to get into a program with a lower than ideal GPA and even GRE scores if you learn to smartly choose the schools you want to apply to.  I could have applied to 15 programs have I not talked to one of the members of this forum 2 years ago.  He offered me the advice of narrowing down my list by contacting the faculty with questions and that definitely helped me make my decision on which schools to apply for.  I composed a list of schools I had interest in, their contact information, and prepared a list of questions to ask the schools before compiling all of the information I needed onto a google doc excel spreadsheet.  Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more about this topic since this can get lengthy if I was to post it here.

Good luck on applying!

[theominousfuture]

10 minutes ago, kumapanda said:

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that one.  I got into a program and was even offered interviews at two programs that are known for having high expectations for GPAs and GRE scores.  You can have the high statistics, but you still need to stand out among the other candidates and I think that makes up for it when schools look at your extracurriculars, LORs, and personal statements. 

To OP, I know going on this forum makes it feel like it's only possible to get into your dream school with high GPAs and GRE scores, but having an average statistic is more common than you think.  I've met people, not necessarily from this field but still applying to competitive fields, and some of them have managed to get into programs despite having a less than perfect score.  Your GPA is higher than mine and I think you can do well on the GREs if you study hard for it.    

I would narrow down your choices on applying to programs though because 18 schools will cost a lot of time and won't be cheap.  As others before me said, it's better to have quality over quantity.  I applied to 10 programs and I felt that was exhausting because I had to personalize 10 personal statements and it took a toll on me emotionally and even physically. 

It's possible to get into a program with a lower than ideal GPA and even GRE scores if you learn to smartly choose the schools you want to apply to.  I could have applied to 15 programs have I not talked to one of the members of this forum 2 years ago.  He offered me the advice of narrowing down my list by contacting the faculty with questions and that definitely helped me make my decision on which schools to apply for.  I composed a list of schools I had interest in, their contact information, and prepared a list of questions to ask the schools before compiling all of the information I needed onto a google doc excel spreadsheet.  Feel free to PM me if you want to talk more about this topic since this can get lengthy if I was to post it here.

Good luck on applying!

Thank you for sharing your experience with the application process! What kind of questions did you ask the schools? Are they really straightforward with telling you if you'd be competitive? 

[kumapanda]

51 minutes ago, theominousfuture said:

Thank you for sharing your experience with the application process! What kind of questions did you ask the schools? Are they really straightforward with telling you if you'd be competitive? 

Most schools will be honest if you ask them if you're competitive.  I typically take off the programs that aren't straightforward or won't provide me with enough answers. 

Some questions I asked the schools or acquired from their website:

1. Requirements/pre-reqs to apply to the program (Bachelor's degree, classes required, etc.)

2. Application seasons (some schools will offer spring or summer application cycles)

2. How many students were accepted last year and how many of them chose to attend it?  How many of those seats are from CD majors and out of field?

4. How many students applied to last year's application cycle and how many were accepted total? (To calculate the acceptance rate.  Note some some schools will be kind enough to offer you this information on their website.)

5. Are GREs and any other standardized testing required?  Does the school have a minimum GRE requirement?  What is the average GRE score of accepted applicants?

6. How does the school calculate your GPA?  Do they only look at your overall GPA or your major GPA?  Do they look at all your units or the last 60-90 units?  What is the average GPA of accepted applicants?

7. How many out of state students did you accept last year?

8. I didn't ask this question, but you can always ask for more information regarding their scholarships and how they fund their students.  This is great if you want to attend a school that may be out of reach for you because of financial reasons.

Since I'm more interested in clinic work than research, I looked for any specialized programs or clinics by going through the schools' clinic websites and reading the forums.  I made little notes to myself on my excel spreadsheet on my first impressions of the schools according to their websites, although if you can personally visit those schools I highly recommend that you do so.  I was able to visit many of the schools in my home state, but sadly couldn't do the same for my out of state schools.  I hope that helps!  

Edited April 19, 2016 by kumapanda