MA Student in Secondary Education (English) wants to get a PhD in English afterwards. Thoughts?

[forevermentor]

I am attending a masters program beginning in fall, but want to be clear about my objectives after the program. I received my BA in literature studies with a 3.4 GPA. I want to teach high school or English at the college level, and am afraid that after being in a high school teaching job for 10 years I will get awfully depressed that I didn't follow my dreams (PhD route). But I am not sure. I have read a lot of information on the advantages and disadvantages of both careers, and feel I am up to the challenge of both intense research and no pay while a PhD student, but also up to the hard challenge of engaging/dealing with high schoolers.

If I am intending on going for the PhD, I can make certain choices during my MA to make this an easier transition. But PhD English acceptance rates (2%-5%) intimidate me. Say I have a very strong application... great writing sample, 4.0, great GRE scores, involvement in academic lit community, gave lectures at conferences, etc., what are the chances of a school like Northwestern accepting a MA grad that got a degree in Secondary Ed?

I've also considered doing a PhD in Curriculum Studies, but my heart is in English/lit theory.

Please don't judge my odds of being accepted by my half-assed writing here!

Any insight or opinion on this will help me a lot. Above all, I want to share my love for literature in a classroom! So I look forward to being a student and teacher, no matter the cost!

(Well, cost does matter. But you get what I mean.)

Thanks

[Warelin]

Many applicants will have great GRE scores, a 4.0, a great writing score and will have lectures at conferences and publications. Many of these applicants will also not get in anywhere despite all of their accomplishments.

A lot of this depends on fit. How well do your interests fit within the school? How well does the school think you fit in; not only with what they're known for now but where they're going in the future. This is impossible to fit. Some schools might like the fact that you bring a different aspect to the field; others might consider it as a lack of commitment to the field. Some schools strongly prefer that you have a MA in English; some prefer that you are directly from undergrad.

There is no way that we can know what your chances are.

[poliscar]

To be super blunt—do you want to be a teacher, or an academic? 

If you're more interested in teaching, you're probably best off not doing a PhD. This isn't because teaching isn't vital and valuable, but because that is not what a program like Northwestern is looking for in terms of applicants. Saying that you want to "share your love for literature in a classroom" is not going to get you anywhere, even if it's a noble sentiment. Schools (at least those in the same league as Northwestern) are looking for applicants who are serious about becoming academics, and are able to communicate that to the committee. They don't want you to have a project planned out (because that will change) but you should have a decent idea of your field/subfield, and be able to situate yourself in relation to relevant scholarship. No matter how much you love literature, that love is not indicative of your aptitude for research and academic work. The same goes for a love of teaching—it may be important, but it is not a significant factor in how a committee will view you. Obviously you don't want to say you hate teaching, but focusing on it as a career motive can be damaging, since it draws away from questions of field, methodology, and scholarly aptitude. 

A second thing to note, would that "intense research" doesn't end when you finish a doctorate. Even if you find yourself at a teaching intensive LAC, a book contract—and eventual book—is par for the course in terms of tenure. If you think you are more interested in teaching than you are in doing research, you should reconsider doing a PhD in English. At the most basic level, it's an academic field, and scholarship is the central source of employment and advancement.

[__________________________]

I'm having difficulty telling whether you're teaching now or not, so please forgive me if I'm just stating the obvious here.

poliscar is right re: teaching university, but getting an MA in lit (assuming one can do this without incurring an excessive amount of debt) is not a bad thing to have under your belt if you want to teach high school, and would allow you to apply for some lower level college teaching jobs as well. Having an MA and a MAT (I think) would actually make you pretty desirable for teaching high school English, and just the MA would give you an edge for private/charter schools if that's an area you're willing to look for work in. It also allows you to teach a CC course here and there on the side if you wanted to. So for teaching HS? I think an MA is a great asset and makes you a more desirable candidate than just the MAT (or BA if you're working in a school that doesn't require the MAT to teach).

For a PhD, there are people with Ph.D.s in literature who teach high school, but it isn't their first choice and it definitely isn't the route you are trained for while in the program. If you want a Ph.D. as a teacher, I feel like most go get their Ph.D.s after 'paying their dues' as teachers and then go back to get a degree in education administration or curriculum (like you're considering) or something. These sorts of degree programs are far more accommodating for people already working in education (in terms of summer offerings, being a part time student, etc.).

[Tybalt]

On 5/14/2016 at 8:20 PM, forevermentor said:

I am attending a masters program beginning in fall, but want to be clear about my objectives after the program. I received my BA in literature studies with a 3.4 GPA. I want to teach high school or English at the college level, and am afraid that after being in a high school teaching job for 10 years I will get awfully depressed that I didn't follow my dreams (PhD route). But I am not sure. I have read a lot of information on the advantages and disadvantages of both careers, and feel I am up to the challenge of both intense research and no pay while a PhD student, but also up to the hard challenge of engaging/dealing with high schoolers.

If I am intending on going for the PhD, I can make certain choices during my MA to make this an easier transition. But PhD English acceptance rates (2%-5%) intimidate me. Say I have a very strong application... great writing sample, 4.0, great GRE scores, involvement in academic lit community, gave lectures at conferences, etc., what are the chances of a school like Northwestern accepting a MA grad that got a degree in Secondary Ed?

I've also considered doing a PhD in Curriculum Studies, but my heart is in English/lit theory.

Please don't judge my odds of being accepted by my half-assed writing here!

Any insight or opinion on this will help me a lot. Above all, I want to share my love for literature in a classroom! So I look forward to being a student and teacher, no matter the cost!

(Well, cost does matter. But you get what I mean.)

Thanks

 

 

My undergrad was an English/Secondary Ed BS.  I then taught high school for four years and left on a long-term leave to do a 2-year MA in English lit.  I resigned my HS teaching position at that point to pursue the PhD in English lit.  

 

My advice would be to do your MA in secondary ed (that's the one you are starting in the fall, yes?)--if possible, do a track that gives you an administration credential.  At the end of that MA, do an MA in English lit.   You can either go right through, or try to teach secondary for a few years (in some areas, school districts will reimburse you for MA work).  Trying to tailor an education MA into one that will do some of what a literature MA is supposed to do will leave you with an experience that is neither secondary nor lit.  So if you feel conflicted, do both.

Not only will this give you a better idea of which field you really want to be in, but if you DO decide to go for secondary, you will already have your PhD equivalency (because of the two MAs) and won't need to do any more graduate work during your career.