Getting Into a Top PhD Programs- Should I take a year off or do a Masters? Help Please!

[ResearchLife]

Hello I have just graduated Rutgers University the New Brunswick campus with a a major of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry and minor of Statistics. My GPA at the end of college was a 3.3 out of a 4.0 scale. I know this is a very low GPA. I want to do PhD, in the life sciences, and have done research for the past two years and completed an Honors Undergraduate Thesis. I was planning on taking a year of, so i could study for the GRE in the summer and take them in September or October so I could try to get a great GRE score so it could offset my low GPA.

During this time I applied for a masters program, M,A in biotechnology at Columbia University which did not require a GRE. I got into the masters program, however I am now unsure if I should still take a year off or i should rather take this prestigious opportunity and then after the Master program apply for PhD which would then enable me to get into a stronger PhD program which i would be unable to after just undergrad. I have also been told I might be published end of this year. I have listed the Pros and Cons below. Please let me know if in your opinon i should still take a year off or I should take the Master program and then apply to PhD program. i really want to attend Columbia but wanted to get others opinion.

Pros:
-Attending Columbia's Master program will ;provide me the ability to get into a top PhD program due to the prestige of the faculty and status of the school
-Help me expand my network of connections
-Expand my Knowledge
-ITS COLUMBIA LOL
-Columbia might give me that distinction which might differentiate me from other candidates when applying for PhD.

Cons:
-I will be spending 65K for a a`1 year master program. (Very expensive)

My C.V
Education: Rutgers University, School of Arts and Sciences, New Brunswick, NJ
Major: Molecular Biology and Biochemistry
Minor: Statistics
Relevant Courses: Molecular Pathways, Gene Regulation in Cancer and Development, Special Topics in Molecular Biology and Biochemistry: The Biology of Aging, Biochemistry, Molecular Biology and Biochemistry, Introduction to Molecular Biology and Biochemistry Laboratory, Organic Chemistry, Computer and Graphical Applications Statistics, Regression Methods, Introduction to Experimental Design, Statistics for Quality Control, Basic Statistics for Research, Introduction to Computing Statistics, Basic Statistics and Probability, Calculus, Physics, Biology, Chemistry
Experience
1. Undergraduate Research Assistant at Rutgers University- September 2014- Current
• Received Highest Honors after successfully defending my Honors Thesis titled, "The Role of Metabotropic Glutamate Receptor 1(GRM1) in Exosome Production and Melanoma Metastasis: Determining the Cellular Origin of Exosomes in Circulation".

2. Research Assistant at Avatar Biotechnologies (Brooklyn) - June 2nd 2014- August 23rd 2014
• Worked on an independent project to see if certain insertions in Influenza Virus’s Hemagglutin would provide an in-vitro headless HA molecule.
• Provided assistance to an intern, on how to perform certain assays
3. Undergraduate Teaching Assistant for Basic Statistics for Research (Rutgers University) January 2014-December 2014
• Provided assistance to the professor in preparation of assignments.
4. Worked for Barbra Buono for Governor Campaign (New Brunswick, New Jersey)- May 30th 2013- August 15th 2013
• Voters were informed of Barbara Buono’s belief’s allowing me to develop strong communication skills.
• Supervised volunteers and other interns.
5. Internship at International AIDS Vaccine Initiative (Manhattan New York)- August 2011
• Learned about the different components of a non-profit organization and learned how to apply money saving tactics in research.
• Understood the process of quality control, writing grants, and the functionality of non-profit companies.

Honors/Awards
1. Highest Honors Awarded to my Senior Thesis (Rutgers University)
• Department of Molecular Biology and Biochemistry awarded me highest honors after successfully defending my thesis and on the quality of my thesis.
2. School of Arts and Sciences Paul Robeson Scholar (Rutgers University)
• Distinction given by the School of Arts and Sciences Honors Program, to Undergraduates completing an Honors Thesis.
3. Aresty Research Center Undergraduate Research Fellowship (Rutgers University)
• Awarded funding allocated towards my Honors Thesis
4. Summer Undergraduate Research Fellowship Program (Earnest Mario School of Pharmacy, Rutgers University)- May-August 2015
• One of the 24 students who were accepted into the program.
• SURF fellow at Rutgers and also an American Society of Pharmacological and Experimental Therapeutics SURF Fellow.
5. Dean’s List
• Given to students who have obtained a 3.5 GPA at the end of the semester.
6. Eagle Scout
• Only 5% of boys entering Boy Scouts are awarded Eagle Scout rank. This status defines me as a strong leader, someone who can be trusted, and be given responsibilities. The two leadership roles I held were: senior patrol leader and troop guide.
• Developed a project that would help beautify Edison High School, by planting plants around ten trees, using bricks to make a boundary around each of those ten trees and make a bench and place an Eagle Statue on pedestal.


Projects
1. Basic Statistics for Research- Fall 2013
• Created projects which incorporated ANOVA, Regression Analysis, Pareto Analysis, and the Cause and effect Diagram/Ishikawa diagram was used to study various lecture topics.
2. Computing and Graphics in Applied Statistics- Fall 2015
• Worked in a group of three to develop a 30 minute presentation on the topic, Regression Model Building using Multiple Comparison Testing. In our presentation we built a regression model to analyze the relationship between the length of the cuckoo egg and the host bird species. We used ANOVA for our multiple comparison test for the four different variables, hedge sparrow, pied wagtail, meadow pipit and robin, to conclude which variable (bird) was significant to be included in the model. The conclusion the multiple comparison test lead to the rejection of the null hypothesis for Hedge Sparrow = Meadow Pipet. This allowed us to determine that the hedge sparrow and meadow pipit are significant in the regression model.

Laboratory Skills
• Total Exosome Isolation
• Transform and Transfect Cells
• Minipreps and Maxipreps
• Genomic DNA Extraction
• Protein Extraction
• Polymerase Chain Reaction assays
• Gel Electrophoresis
• Immunoblotting
• Elisa
• Protein Assay
• Spectrophotometer
• Microscopy
• Write research proposal
• Knowledge of proper laboratory ethics
Computer Skills
• Proficient in using ImageJ software
• Proficient in the use of excel to do statistical analysis, using the tools data analysis and pivot.
• Familiar with R- Programming and SAS-Programing
• Proficient in using Microsoft Office, Google Documents.

 

[ShogunT]

2 hours ago, ResearchLife said:

Cons:
-I will be spending 65K for a a`1 year master program. (Very expensive)

 

 

1

Do you think this 65K one-year investment is gonna get you into any top programs? When it comes to Ph.D. applications, the things ad com people look for are your research capability materialized by publication or scientist potential illustrated through course works / interesting projects you have done. Connections are important, but without the required credentials you are not getting in any top programs, I am sorry.

I think you have to reconsider your priorities and make different questions.

Have you explored other leverage such as doing voluntary work in a research lab, becoming a lab technician, getting few years industry experience under your belt, etc.?

Edited May 20, 2016 by ShogunT

[Edotdl]

I think it depends on how confident you are about whether or not you will be able to get into the PhD programs you want after a year off as a lab tech, essentially doing full time research for a year. The MS, since it includes courses may help offset the GPA (although I think undergrad GPA still holds non-trivial weight even with a masters, since undergrad courses are fundamentally different). If you are able to find a research position in a good lab/prestigious (ie Columbia level) school, I don't think a Columbia MS would be worth the 65k.

[ballwera]

Unless you have someone paying you to do that masters, do not under any circumstance do it. Waste of time and money IMO. Take two or so years off, work as a tech and take some post bacc courses. 

[ResearchLife]

10 hours ago, ShogunT said:

Do you think this 65K one-year investment is gonna get you into any top programs? When it comes to Ph.D. applications, the things ad com people look for are your research capability materialized by publication or scientist potential illustrated through course works / interesting projects you have done. Connections are important, but without the required credentials you are not getting in any top programs, I am sorry.

I think you have to reconsider your priorities and make different questions.

Have you explored other leverage such as doing voluntary work in a research lab, becoming a lab technician, getting few years industry experience under your belt, etc.?

If i do not take the Master at Columbia, I will be continuing doing research in the same lab I did my undergraduate research in! I am doping research in the field I want to do my PhD in, Cancer biology. I am not sure yet what aspect of cancer biology I want to focus on but I know i want to do Cancer biology. I just want to fundamentally increase  my chances of getting into decent PhD program ( either the same caliber as my alma mater Rutgers or higher). I know my recommendation letters are solid, the only thing that was holding me back from applying to PhD programs was GRE. I am planning on studying for the GRE over the summer taking them in October and then applying for PhD programs if I do not take the Master program. I need to destroy the GRE, which I hope would offset my low GPA. I struggled the first year or two  but my grades drastically increased. There is a massive upward trend in my transcript. 

 

If I work in the same lab i worked in undergrad I will be volunteering. I really like my PI she is excellent mentor and she said to let her know which PhD programs I am applying to before I apply, to see if she knows anyone 

[ShogunT]

4 hours ago, ResearchLife said:

If i do not take the Master at Columbia, I will be continuing doing research in the same lab I did my undergraduate research in! I am doping research in the field I want to do my PhD in, Cancer biology. I am not sure yet what aspect of cancer biology I want to focus on but I know i want to do Cancer biology. I just want to fundamentally increase  my chances of getting into decent PhD program ( either the same caliber as my alma mater Rutgers or higher). I know my recommendation letters are solid, the only thing that was holding me back from applying to PhD programs was GRE. I am planning on studying for the GRE over the summer taking them in October and then applying for PhD programs if I do not take the Master program. I need to destroy the GRE, which I hope would offset my low GPA. I struggled the first year or two  but my grades drastically increased. There is a massive upward trend in my transcript. 

 

If I work in the same lab i worked in undergrad I will be volunteering. I really like my PI she is excellent mentor and she said to let her know which PhD programs I am applying to before I apply, to see if she knows anyone 

 

 

Then I would recommend that you focus on improving your GRE, do your volunteering work with your undergrad PI. Hopefully, you can get your name in the co-author list of a decent paper by the time you interview for admission next year. I don't think that 1-year MA at Columbia benefits you that much.

Good luck!

[biochemgirl67]

12 hours ago, ResearchLife said:

If i do not take the Master at Columbia, I will be continuing doing research in the same lab I did my undergraduate research in! I am doping research in the field I want to do my PhD in, Cancer biology. I am not sure yet what aspect of cancer biology I want to focus on but I know i want to do Cancer biology. I just want to fundamentally increase  my chances of getting into decent PhD program ( either the same caliber as my alma mater Rutgers or higher). I know my recommendation letters are solid, the only thing that was holding me back from applying to PhD programs was GRE. I am planning on studying for the GRE over the summer taking them in October and then applying for PhD programs if I do not take the Master program. I need to destroy the GRE, which I hope would offset my low GPA. I struggled the first year or two  but my grades drastically increased. There is a massive upward trend in my transcript. 

 

If I work in the same lab i worked in undergrad I will be volunteering. I really like my PI she is excellent mentor and she said to let her know which PhD programs I am applying to before I apply, to see if she knows anyone 

Unfortunately, a great GRE does in NO WAY offset GPA.  Maybe the subject GRE would do the trick, but no one can promise anything.  If this were me, I would under no circumstances pay $65,000 per year for a degree.  Maybe I'm cheap, but why not go into industry or something for 2 years and then reapply.  Applying in October will not change your profile since undergrad.  And worrying about the caliber of the school you can into right now probably isn't your best endeavor.  You will be judged by schools on your academic and scientific performance during undergrad and that judgement will then determine if adcoms think you are capable of doing research and earning a degree from their program.

In summary, go get a tech job/industry position for ~2 years to substantially increase your odds.  You can go to the master's program and get the same result, but be 130K in debt.

[ResearchLife]

On 5/20/2016 at 1:19 AM, ShogunT said:

Do you think this 65K one-year investment is gonna get you into any top programs? When it comes to Ph.D. applications, the things ad com people look for are your research capability materialized by publication or scientist potential illustrated through course works / interesting projects you have done. Connections are important, but without the required credentials you are not getting in any top programs, I am sorry.

I think you have to reconsider your priorities and make different questions.

Have you explored other leverage such as doing voluntary work in a research lab, becoming a lab technician, getting few years industry experience under your belt, etc.?

This is 1 year program! I am doing research in the exact field I want to research in, Cancer biology! In your opinion does doing a Undergraduate Honors Thesis help in application process?  I recieved highest hononrs for my thesis and it was actual research done by me. Thank you!

Edited May 21, 2016 by ResearchLife

[Bioenchilada]

9 hours ago, ResearchLife said:

This is 1 year program! I am doing research in the exact field I want to research in, Cancer biology! In your opinion does doing a Undergraduate Honors Thesis help in application process?  I recieved highest hononrs for my thesis and it was actual research done by me. Thank you!

I feel that a lot of adcoms don't look at the actual CV but rather focus on your SOP and LORs. The only way they'll actually know you receiver highest honors would be if you mentioned it in the essay. Having an honors thesis helps, but a lot of people do those, have 3+ years of research experience, and have great numbers! I'd say your best shot is to work on getting amazing letters of recommendation by any means necessary and getting the best scores possible on the general AND subject GRE. Doing so might then give you a good chance of getting into a top program. Alternatively, you could apply this season to see how things go, but I'd suggest applying to a wide range programs. 

[ShogunT]

13 hours ago, ResearchLife said:

This is 1 year program! I am doing research in the exact field I want to research in, Cancer biology! In your opinion does doing a Undergraduate Honors Thesis help in application process?  I recieved highest hononrs for my thesis and it was actual research done by me. Thank you!

 

 

 

 

 

Just want to share my understanding of the ad process (some of the top 20 schools in my field) to you:

- Screening: Standardized tests, i.e. GRE, and TOEFL for students international, are used to cut the majority of thousand of applicants off the list. GPA may also be involved in this screening process.

- Reviewing: GPA, publication, awards, recognitions (e.g. highest honor for thesis, graduating with a summa/magna cum laude) --> SOP, LoR. The order of which criteria being checked first varies among schools. Then the minority of candidates are offered interviewed, site visits while the rest goes to the waiting list. Exceptional candidates may by-pass some reviewing rounds. They are those who earn the high place in international competitions, e.g. IMO(Maths) for Maths/ECE/CSE programs, ACM programming for CSE/ECE programs.

That being said, unless you have a paper published in Nature or Cell, your chance getting into interviewing, in a top program, with a low GRE is not good. Similar logic applies to low GPA. Some outliers with great publication credential may also be offered admission with mediocre GRE, which is known but not common.

However, the more years of relevant industry work or experience in a research lab you have, the less important your GPA contributes to the Ph.D. application process. GPA is more crucial to screen students applying straight from college. In addition, publication in prestige journals can possibly offset low GPA.

Hope it helps.

Edited May 21, 2016 by ShogunT

[MastersHoping]

On 5/20/2016 at 5:49 AM, PlanB said:

Go with Columbia's master's program. Your GPA is just too low to swing a Top Ph.D. program(IMO). Plus, I hear that program has good placement rate for industry and jobs.

To the OP:

 

     I really respect PlanB's opinion, but I am going to have to respectfully disagree with it (wholeheartedly). Just to be clear, the part I disagree with is that your GPA is too low to get into a top program. Columbia may have good placement rate, I don't know anything about that. 

 

     For most Ph.D programs, they're not that interested in seeing you get close to straight A's, because it's not that meaningful to them. The higher the GPA is, the better, of course, but it's not a make or break type thing. I for example also got a 3.3 GPA in undergrad in a much less difficult major, am currently in an MA program, and am one of only two people to get into a PhD program (and I also have the lowest GPA in my grad program out of the people who are applying to Ph.Ds). What's more important are your research potential, research interests, and match with the department. 

     Even if you do the Columbia program, it's not guaranteed you'd get into a Ph.D program. Instead, you could work in a lab this year or heck just work somewhere that doesn't even have much to do with your Ph.D goals. You can do MOOCs on the side (coursera, edx, futurelearn, MITOpenCourseWare all come to mind) for FREE to increase your skills. 

     

[Bioenchilada]

1 hour ago, ShogunT said:

Just want to share my understanding of the ad process (some of the top 20 schools in my field) to you:

- Screening: Standardized tests, i.e. GRE, and TOEFL for students international, are used to cut the majority of thousand of applicants off the list. GPA may also be involved in this screening process.

- Reviewing: GPA, publication, awards, recognitions (e.g. highest honor for thesis, graduating with a summa/magna cum laude) --> SOP, LoR. The order of which criteria being checked first varies among schools. Then the minority of candidates are offered interviewed, site visits while the rest goes to the waiting list. Exceptional candidates may by-pass some reviewing rounds. They are those who earn the high place in international competitions, e.g. IMO(Maths) for Maths/ECE/CSE programs, ACM programming for CSE/ECE programs.

That being said, unless you have a paper published in Nature or Cell, your chance getting into interviewing, in a top program, with a low GRE is not good. Similar logic applies to low GPA. Some outliers with great publication credential may also be offered admission with mediocre GRE, which is known but not common.

However, the more years of relevant industry work or experience in a research lab you have, the less important your GPA contributes to the Ph.D. application process. GPA is more crucial to screen students applying straight from college. In addition, publication in prestige journals can possibly offset low GPA.

Hope it helps.

I don't know what field you're in, but I disagree with some of the points you've made. I know plenty of people without Nature/Cell publications and a "low-GRE" that have gotten jnto top 10 programs. No one can by-pass interviews in the  biological sciences. Not only this, but many programs (the majority) have also stopped using GPA/GRE cutoffs. Most of the top 10 no longer uses minimums.

[GeoDUDE!]

I don't know about biology ect, but in the Earth Sciences, going to a 1 year masters program where you pay for your degree and only take classes would not make you a stronger candidate, even if your GPA was low.  Usually candidates with a masters degree are judged by their ability to produce research, as they should have a thesis completed before they get their masters degree. 

In general, I think school name has very little weight in research based programs. I see more people from SLAC than any other type of school. 

IMO, the biggest reason people cannot get into graduate school is because they do not have the ability to articulate open problems they are interested in researching and why those open problems are interesting. 

Your GPA might be holding you back, however, you should be able to get into a funded program for a masters. I think a 2 year funded masters with a thesis would help you, but a 1 year paid degree might hurt you. 

[kimmibeans]

Your GPA is definitely low for a PhD program. Not insurmountable, but really low, which means you have to really work hard to overcome it. An honors thesis definitely helps, but I don't think that alone will be enough, even with a high GRE. There are a few ways you can overcome this:

1) Do the Master's program and to prove you have an advanced understanding of biology

2) Work a few years as a tech doing research and taking classes

3) Do a post-bacc program designed to prepare you for research, such as PREP (Einstein, Columbia, and I think NYU and Mt. Sinai have programs like this). PREP is great because you get a stipend, work full time in a lab, take grad courses, and get free GRE prep and more personalized help for the application process. 

If you can show that you are able to think like a scientist, you will be fine. But it will be hard work.

As for the Columbia program, I honestly don't know. Is the $65k just tuition, or is that including room and board and fees?

Edited May 22, 2016 by kimmibeans

[ResearchLife]

1 hour ago, kimmibeans said:

Your GPA is definitely low for a PhD program. Not insurmountable, but really low, which means you have to really work hard to overcome it. An honors thesis definitely helps, but I don't think that alone will be enough, even with a high GRE. There are a few ways you can overcome this:

1) Do the Master's program and to prove you have an advanced understanding of biology

2) Work a few years as a tech doing research and taking classes

3) Do a post-bacc program designed to prepare you for research, such as PREP (Einstein, Columbia, and I think NYU and Mt. Sinai have programs like this). PREP is great because you get a stipend, work full time in a lab, take grad courses, and get free GRE prep and more personalized help for the application process. 

If you can show that you are able to think like a scientist, you will be fine. But it will be hard work.

As for the Columbia program, I honestly don't know. Is the $65k just tuition, or is that including room and board and fees?

It is actually 50K and 15K would be apartment costs and etc for that 1 year. 

[ResearchLife]

2 hours ago, PlanB said:

OP, ask your letter writers about which step you should take next. They know you well and will be familiar with the Job market for PhD scientist.

Will do. Hopefully they will provide me insight! Thanks for  your advice! 

[ShogunT]

19 hours ago, Bioenchilada said:

I don't know what field you're in, but I disagree with some of the points you've made. I know plenty of people without Nature/Cell publications and a "low-GRE" that have gotten jnto top 10 programs. No one can by-pass interviews in the  biological sciences. Not only this, but many programs (the majority) have also stopped using GPA/GRE cutoffs. Most of the top 10 no longer uses minimums.

 

I think we agree to disagree. There are outliers as I already said in my original post; a friend of mine went to Cornell with a mediocre GRE. And I never said there were interview by-passing.

Are there any reliable sources for no-longer use of GRE cutoffs in the top 10 programs?

[Bioenchilada]

23 minutes ago, ShogunT said:

I think we agree to disagree. There are outliers as I already said in my original post; a friend of mine went to Cornell with a mediocre GRE. And I never said there were interview by-passing.

Are there any reliable sources for no-longer use of GRE cutoffs in the top 10 programs?

Lolol I misread your post and thought you said by-passing interviews instead of reviewing rounds. My apologies. However, I still think you're placing too much importance on the GRE. It's evident that the higher the score the better, but anything above the 70% percentile on both parts and 4+ on the verbal is just fine. 

Harvard (DMS) and Stanford (Biological Sciences) make it very clear in their websites that the process is holistic and that they use no minimums. Of course, I know some schools, like my alma mater, have explicit cutoff for their programs; but, if schools in the top 10 wanted to use them, I'm certain they'd make them explicit. 

[Bioenchilada]

I'm one that believes that the graduate admissions process is truly holistic. They care more about what you can bring to the program, your experience, and your drive more than your numbers. Caring too much about the GRE particularly is a common mistake, IMO. Not saying you should slack though lol

[ShogunT]

10 hours ago, Bioenchilada said:

I'm one that believes that the graduate admissions process is truly holistic. They care more about what you can bring to the program, your experience, and your drive more than your numbers. Caring too much about the GRE particularly is a common mistake, IMO. Not saying you should slack though lol

 

I agree on this. MIT EECS stopped requiring GRE when I applied years ago (because all applicants had maximized GRE scores I guess) lol

[blc073]

Experience outweighs GPA and GRE, without doubt. You can get into a top graduate program with low stats if you have strong enough LORs and enough research experience. 

If I were in your position, I would take two years off to work in a biotech lab where you are getting paid. Look at it this way: graduate programs want students who are prepared to work. If you have two years of experience in a real job in which you work rigid hours, you will be much more attractive to top graduate schools. 

Save your money, work for two years in a biotech lab, then apply to a wide range of programs (a safety, two mid-tiers, and some top-tiers). 

Good luck! 

[ResearchLife]

Thank You Everyone for their comments they were very helpful! I have decided to not take the master and continue working in the same lab! Hopefully this time next year I will be going into a PhD program!

[Crucial BBQ]

On May 22, 2016 at 0:51 AM, ResearchLife said:

It is actually 50K and 15K would be apartment costs and etc for that 1 year. 

Apartment costs?  Are you talking about buying furniture?  Or rent?  Unless you will be living in the South Bronx, average rent in NYC is something like $3K/month for a one bedroom.  

I took an offer to an MS program because I had no choice if I wanted grad school.  My uGPA is considerably lower than yours and from conversations I had with programs after my rejection letters came in GPA was not the deciding factor, if even at all.  What hurt me most were particular grades in specific courses and an average GRE performance.  The concern, to my understanding, was that my analytical abilities may not be up to par with what is expected for grad school (that is, to a Ph.D. program).  

[aberrant]

Kinda late to chime in, but I think extensive research experience outweights the prestige of school. Columbia or not, if you will not be doing research during the MS program, your profile will not be significantly improved. And, unless top programs are running low on funding or applicants, preliminary screen/cutoffs will always include the use of GPA and GRE score. A particular program (e.g. biochemistry, molecular biology, chemistry, etc.) may not have a "minimum" requirement, but a school (e.g. graduate school of art and sciences, etc.) may have one. So, even if a program nominated to for an offer of admission, the applicant's profile still need to fulfill the graduate school's expected requirement (written or not). Some people here may not realized that, but this information can be acquired by communicating with the graduate program admission officers/assistants.

That being said, I think OP should continue to do research, whether that be in industry, a thesis-MS, or volunteering in the lab you were working during undergrad.

[ResearchLife]

On 6/23/2016 at 1:47 AM, Crucial BBQ said:

@Crucial BBQ @aberrant i choose not to do the Master program, I have taken a year off doing more research and will be applying in september to PhD programs!