Don't take on debt

[MD guy]

2 hours ago, BFreeman03 said:

Are assistantships something that we see at the Masters level frequently or no?

Depends on the school. Berkeley has lots of TAships available but apparently they're competitive. Same with Michigan. I think in general the larger the school's undergrad college, the more opportunities there are going to be, but competition is always a problem. Add in picky professors and scheduling issues, I wouldn't bank on getting an assistantship for financial aid, but it's certainly available and possible.

Also it's almost impossible to not take on any debt unless 1) you go to WWS or 2) have family money to pay. The point is to get as little as possible and be reasonable with expectations, as well as keeping an open mind for less high reputation schools that might give more money.

[Derpster0]

9 hours ago, MD guy said:

Depends on the school. Berkeley has lots of TAships available but apparently they're competitive. Same with Michigan. I think in general the larger the school's undergrad college, the more opportunities there are going to be, but competition is always a problem. Add in picky professors and scheduling issues, I wouldn't bank on getting an assistantship for financial aid, but it's certainly available and possible.

Also it's almost impossible to not take on any debt unless 1) you go to WWS or 2) have family money to pay. The point is to get as little as possible and be reasonable with expectations, as well as keeping an open mind for less high reputation schools that might give more money.

Thanks for the insight. I guess I'll just end up putting in the apps and seeing how it goes.

[Kaneisha]

@MD guy is mostly right. It's not impossible but it certainly isn't as easy to break into banking or consulting when you're several years out. Even with that said, if I reenter the "work for other people" world, I'm a better fit for a pre-IPO well-funded startup, a corporate marketing role, or human capital role. But you are right! I definitely have the "insurance" that comes with having a Harvard MBA. That's why I impress upon the policy-only candidates to minimize their student loan debt!

Edited June 13, 2016 by Kaneisha
typo

[marco_p]

On 13/06/2016 at 5:22 AM, MD guy said:

Also it's almost impossible to not take on any debt unless 1) you go to WWS or 2) have family money to pay. The point is to get as little as possible and be reasonable with expectations, as well as keeping an open mind for less high reputation schools that might give more money.

 

It's a very conservative approach, I think. I don't fall under any of these 2 categories and still I'm not planning to take on any debt. And I'm going to SIPA which is notorious for it's frugality. I was lucky to get full-tuition fellowship from the school and an extra scholarship from another source. With these two, I have already secured almost 90% of my overall costs (direct & indirect). During the second year I hope to get an assistantship or another scholarship so I will manage to avoid accruing any debt whatsoever. Of course, I am not sure I will manage to do it, but my point is that WWS is not the only school that can generously assist you financially. So it is indeed possible to graduate debt free from a policy school (I hope!).

[sp108]

People always have the option of working full time for a few years to save up money instead of jumping into MPP/MPA programs after little to no work experience.  MBA programs require at minimum 3-4 years of work experience for a damn reason.  There is also a reason why professional programs such as MPP/MPA programs are year-after-year increasing their average age/work experience of their incoming class.

This has a few advantages:

1) More money saved up so you don't have to live dirt poor on ramen during grad school or in some extremely shoddy apartment.

2) More work experience means you have a better chance of getting into a top school (with more funding too). 

3) Being in a professional environment longer will do wonders for your personality.  What you learn in the real world will help you out in grad school when you are going through recruiting, resumes, working on team assignments, etc.  You will have a more professional attitude and this extremely important.  You are not in undergrad anymore.  You will have more leadership opportunities in a professional environment which is only beneficial to you.

4) The professional connections.  The longer you work, the more professional connections you develop.  This is extremely important for any area.

5) Being in a professional environment longer will give you more opportunities to figure out what you truly want to do.

6) Guess who will have a bigger advantage when it comes to landing a job? The people with more work experience. Higher starting salaries, higher staff levels.

 

TL;DR Obtain more work experience.  It wont hurt you.  You will even able to attend that dream school you wanted to go to because budgets and more funding will make it more feasible and this debt conversation wont be as big of an issue.

 

Edited June 14, 2016 by sp108

[MD guy]

9 hours ago, marco_p said:

 

It's a very conservative approach, I think. I don't fall under any of these 2 categories and still I'm not planning to take on any debt. And I'm going to SIPA which is notorious for it's frugality. I was lucky to get full-tuition fellowship from the school and an extra scholarship from another source. With these two, I have already secured almost 90% of my overall costs (direct & indirect). During the second year I hope to get an assistantship or another scholarship so I will manage to avoid accruing any debt whatsoever. Of course, I am not sure I will manage to do it, but my point is that WWS is not the only school that can generously assist you financially. So it is indeed possible to graduate debt free from a policy school (I hope!).

Interesting, thanks for the perspective! Was your application outstanding in a certain way in comparison to the typical SIPA applicant? I guess I don't hang out with enough top tier people who can secure full-tuition grants from elite schools like SIPA heh heh, hence my impression that a very highly reputed school is hard to attract good money from.

[marco_p]

17 hours ago, MD guy said:

Was your application outstanding in a certain way in comparison to the typical SIPA applicant?

I was asking myself the same question many times. International applicant, legal background with experience from an international organisation, ~4 years of experience (+social work: student government, NGOs), good GRE (above 90th percentile). I was extremely happy to get the scholarship from the school but cannot say I was expecting it. My best bet why I got it is that I have chosen a relatively less popular concentration for my degree (Urban and Social Policy) and maybe someone really thought that I will fit this concentration well.

[MD guy]

5 hours ago, marco_p said:

I was asking myself the same question many times. International applicant, legal background with experience from an international organisation, ~4 years of experience (+social work: student government, NGOs), good GRE (above 90th percentile). I was extremely happy to get the scholarship from the school but cannot say I was expecting it. My best bet why I got it is that I have chosen a relatively less popular concentration for my degree (Urban and Social Policy) and maybe someone really thought that I will fit this concentration well.

I think it is safe to say that you were an outstanding applicant to SIPA. Congratulations. But my point was, realistically, people shouldn't expect this sort of thing to happen to you, much as you did not expect it yourself. I don't think it's unfair to say some level of debt is expected for many MPP/MPA students in this day and age of ridiculous tuition..

[MaxwellAlum]

59 minutes ago, MD guy said:

I think it is safe to say that you were an outstanding applicant to SIPA. Congratulations. But my point was, realistically, people shouldn't expect this sort of thing to happen to you, much as you did not expect it yourself. I don't think it's unfair to say some level of debt is expected for many MPP/MPA students in this day and age of ridiculous tuition..

I think it depends on where you choose to apply.  Many reputable but less prestigious schools offer good amounts of aid to attract the types of candidates who might otherwise go to SIPA/HKS etc.

[MD guy]

1 hour ago, MaxwellAlum said:

I think it depends on where you choose to apply.  Many reputable but less prestigious schools offer good amounts of aid to attract the types of candidates who might otherwise go to SIPA/HKS etc.

Yeah I mentioned this already above,

On June 12, 2016 at 11:22 PM, MD guy said:

The point is to get as little as possible and be reasonable with expectations, as well as keeping an open mind for less high reputation schools that might give more money.

Edited June 15, 2016 by MD guy

[TemujinAmbition]

On 6/12/2016 at 3:25 PM, MD guy said:

AFAIK, recruiting and networking for that needs to be done nice and early. It's not like those people will look at any HBS resume that flies their way, no sir. Once you're a couple years out I think many of those doors close, especially if OP has been working in the MPP world. Perhaps senior level policy people can get another in and transition to consulting, but the finance door is a hard one to break open again randomly mid-career.

I agree she's too late for university recruitment that is done primarily prior to MBA graduation. But that's only one way to break-in; the other is experience hire. I believe she is able to apply under the "experience hire" category, particularly for firms that do a lot of government consulting like Deloitte and Bain. Her MPP and experience would be valued in such contexts, yes? a bit harder path than just doing university recruitment from the beginning, but still feasible, yes? no?

Edited June 16, 2016 by TemujinAmbition

[TemujinAmbition]

On 6/13/2016 at 3:48 PM, Kaneisha said:

@MD guy is mostly right. It's not impossible but it certainly isn't as easy to break into banking or consulting when you're several years out. Even with that said, if I reenter the "work for other people" world, I'm a better fit for a pre-IPO well-funded startup, a corporate marketing role, or human capital role. But you are right! I definitely have the "insurance" that comes with having a Harvard MBA. That's why I impress upon the policy-only candidates to minimize their student loan debt!

I see. Well it seems like you enjoy working for yourself, so I hope it works out for you and you don't need to use your "insurance policy." best of luck!

[TemujinAmbition]

7 hours ago, MD guy said:

I think it is safe to say that you were an outstanding applicant to SIPA. Congratulations. But my point was, realistically, people shouldn't expect this sort of thing to happen to you, much as you did not expect it yourself. I don't think it's unfair to say some level of debt is expected for many MPP/MPA students in this day and age of ridiculous tuition..

Nobody should be expecting "oh I will definitely get money, 100%, no problem, there is no uncertainty." But if your numbers are reasonably higher than the average admitted student, and your application is fairly strong (assuming you have good self awareness about quality of your application), then I don't think it is totally unreasonable to think you might be able to go to top school with low debt. Of course, it's rare to have everything free, even Marco say he only has 90% covered, so you'll probably have to borrow something. But a lot of the people on gradcafe (though not all) are type A people that exceed the average qualifications of admitted students. So I'd say, don't feel like you are entitled or will definitely get money, but definitely give applying a chance if you have good credentials. You might not get big scholarship, but it certainly doesn't hurt that much to try and apply (other than a little bit of time and paying the application fee). 

[ajak568]

I'm gonna chip in with my two cents. I don't think it's out of the question to be able to minimize debt for a policy degree. It's not always easy, but I think there are a few things people can do to maximize their chances:

Warning: I read over this and it sounds kinda preachy. Sorry 'bout that.

1) Get work experience. (Already discussed in this thread.)

2) Do a lot of background research on your programs to make sure you're a good fit/the programs fit what you're looking for. I think it's underestimated how much being a good fit for a program can help your application. (I.e.: Being a stellar student/professional is one thing. Being a good fit for a program can also really help your chances. Know why you're applying to a particular program.)

3) Spend a lot of time on your apps (especially essays). Fellowships can't fall out of the sky. You have to put effort into those apps!

4) Apply to a variety of schools (reaches as well as some other programs in order to hopefully give you some leverage to negotiate when offers come in.)

5) Be willing to give the application process several shots if it doesn't go right the first time. Don't put all the eggs into the grad school basket. Grad school will be there year after year. It's not going anywhere.

If you really prioritize putting in a strong application and minimizing debt, I think coming out with a small amount of loans can be done. There is absolutely no reason why a policy student should graduate with unmanageable amounts of debt unless you were hellbent on getting that master's degree. I think in terms of academic growth, a policy degree offers a lot to aspiring public sector professionals, but if we're discussing the dollar value of that degree--it ain't much! (I say this as a policy student who is very proud to be studying policy, so don't get me wrong.)

Anyway, that's my two cents. Feel free to disagree, of course. Good luck on apps for anyone applying!