LSE & Anthro

[striped]

As some might know, I've posted before about being rejected from every program I applied to last application cycle. I applied to seven schools, three of which were in California. While I did my sufficient research on the programs and faculty at each school before applying, I naively forgot that the California UC and CSU system is broke- and this lack of funding limited my opportunity even more beyond the normal fierce competition. 

With all this mind, I am going to apply again for graduate school this application cycle. However, I am not reapplying to any California schools, and I likely won't reapply to the programs I didn't believe I had a fair chance at being admitted to (Duke, for instance). All of this combined with some personal changes in my life have led me to look abroad for grad school. I currently am looking at LSE and their 12 month MSc program in Social Anthropology. I've looked at costs (about $30,000 USD) and it seems reasonable, especially given that it's a one-year program versus a traditional 2-3 MA in the U.S. I am concerned about loans and immigration. I haven't been able to find much information on how the student loan system works in the UK (or anywhere abroad, really), and how feasible it really is for a U.S. student to attend. 

I've read some experiences of MSc anthro students at LSE, but not much. I know all programs at LSE are rigorous and consuming as it is a prestigious university, and I wonder how likely it is that someone with my stats can even get in. My overall undergrad GPA was 3.5 (their minimum at LSE), but my Major GPA was 3.9. LSE's anthro department doesn't require GRE, so I don't know how I can make my application more competitive. 

Lots of ideas and questions, any input is so appreciated!

[superskorupek]

Hi!

I studied anthropology at LSE as an undergraduate and had contact with a lot of postgraduate students as we attended lectures for optional courses together. Quite a few of them were from the US!

As a US citizen unfortunately you are not eligible for a UK state loan - soon enough even we EU students may not be , but it seems you may be eligible for a US loan to study at LSE - http://www.lse.ac.uk/intranet/LSEServices/financeDivision/feesAndStudentFinance/feesAndLoans/LoansUSA.aspx.

The people who will handle your application at LSE really care more about your fit for the program than grades, assuming you meet the minimum. I would concentrate on writting an excellent personal statement in order to become competitive  Hope this helps.

[striped]

@superskorupek Thank you for the reply and input! I believe that US FAFSA actually allows loans to be taken out for international schools- and LSE does accept those loans. 

I am having trouble even getting in touch with LSE anthro faculty- on their graduate student webpage for anthro, it does not have a link for "faculty" or "current students" like U.S. programs do. I'm wondering if that is as important in their application process as it is here?  I know that if one applies for an MA or PhD in the U.S. and doesn't contact any faculty members/determine a potential POI, they have little chance at being admitted. Is it the same in the UK generally (at least for LSE), or do they just read your Statement of Purpose and determine your eligibility/fit based on that? 

[rising_star]

In addition to tuition, you'll want to keep in mind that London is an expensive city to live in. I'd guess that you'd easily spend $20K on living expenses (though that may change depending on what happens with the British pound).

Why are you interested in a 1 year MA? How do you think that will strengthen your application? I ask because a 1 year program doesn't give you a chance to strengthen your research skills, engage in fieldwork, or some of the other things that anthro PhD students do so I'm not sure why you'd do one. You'll also probably need a gap year between completing the LSE program and starting a PhD program, unless you're planning to reapply to PhD programs during your first term at LSE (and, if so, then nothing you do at LSE will count toward your admissions since you won't have actually done it yet...).

[striped]

@rising_star thanks for the response! I definitely looked into living costs and estimated 20-25k in additional loans for that reason. The reason I'm looking to consider a 1-yr study based MSc is because honestly, I'm afraid I'm still not competitive enough for a U.S. MA or PhD. I have no real guidance and am trying to figure out on my own how likely it is I will be admitted to these programs I'm reapplying/applying to. The truth is, I really am dying to be back in the academic environment. It would be heartbreaking to get rejected again and have to wait another year to reapply- putting a three-year gap total between graduating undergrad and matriculating to grad school. I really want to be in school again and begin the path to fulfilling an ultimate life goal of mine. I'm also happiest when in school- and I don't want it to be delayed any longer. Of course, I wouldn't ever enter a program I knew wasn't a good fit just because I want to be in a program. But I really want to exhaust all of my options so I can start my dream. The 1-year study program seems like it would be at least a start- I'll still apply to traditional MA programs, but I guess I came here looking for advice on that, and different international options for that equivalent.

[rising_star]

The 1 year study program isn't necessarily going to advance your goals. I wish @knp would come around to offer you some advice but, my general sense is that very, very few people get admitted to graduate programs in anthropology (esp. sociocultural) without taking a few years off. There are plenty of things you could be doing in the meantime, like gaining qualitative research experience, doing fieldwork, improving your language skills, and taking a course or two at a local university in the evenings or whenever your work schedule allows. That's the way that I would go if I were in your shoes. Taking on $50K of debt and then being in grad school for several more years will mean that you'll have some serious financial constraints when you finish your graduate education.

[striped]

@rising_star You raise some excellent points. I know that the gap between undergrad and graduate matriculation is not only recommended but often necessary in terms of maturing, determining a project, and having the right prudence in taking on such a burdensome financial responsibility. I know that extending the gap won't be the worst thing in the world, especially if I am able to fill my time in-between with things that will make me more competitive. That's why I feel the MSc is a good route- it specifically prepares students to be PhD candidates with training, theory, fieldwork, and finely developing the research proposal. These things can definitely be done on one's own, but for me personally, I have no guidance whatsoever- I just need somewhere to start, as I have no resources and no idea where to begin. I doubt that in five years I will know much more than I do now in terms of where to start, and that's why these forums are such a wealth of knowledge and help to me. 

I don't know where to begin in gaining qualitative research experience. I could do fieldwork on my own, and prepare it on my own, but how do I know it's something that can be considered for academic purposes and not just the equivalent of a personal diary? Since the research I want to be conducting is in the U.S., language skills aren't necessary- though I have been self-studying in French for almost two years just for my own personal benefit. 

[rising_star]

Well, you could look for research positions that involve qualitative work, whether in anthro or in another field. If you put "qualitative research" in as a keyword on indeed.com, you will get literally hundreds of results. If you're gaining research experience through your job, you will necessarily start to refine your research interests by figuring out some of your likes and dislikes. And, instead of being $50K in debt, you'll be making money. Doing a master's program isn't necessarily going to provide you with direction, especially a 1 year program that is going to go by very, very quickly. You're trying to use the MSc as a crutch, rather than doing the critical work on your own. There's lots of advice on these forums about what you need to be doing. You could also be trying to reach out to faculty and grad students at institutions you may want to attend so that you can get a sense of what they did or what they'd recommend.

Also, since you're going to need rec letters from your undergrad at some point, why not talk to the faculty there? There must be at least one professor who remembers you and who you could email about this stuff? Spending $50K to get advice and guidance you could get for free would be foolish.

[knp]

Hello @rising_star! Nice of you to think of me.

Striped, what's your actual academic background? That's what interests me most here. I came from a non-anthropology background, too, but I'd dabbled in anthropology for a couple courses and, I think more critically, had done a few projects that were really deep (for an undergraduate) research experiences on the region and themes I'm working on. So while I had to switch the humanities frame with which I approached those themes to a more anthropological one, I could keep a lot of my subject knowledge and language skills. Do you have anything like that? Or are your interests all new, and entirely unconnected to what you studied in college?

It's sounding like the second one, in which case I agree with you that you should be looking into master's degrees, among other options. However, I am not at all convinced that LSE is the right choice for you. Are there funded master's degrees in anthropology here in the US? Or even ones that waive tuition? I don't know that, which is a critical piece to the advice I'm giving, but if you can find some, I would strongly suggest that you apply to those. Moreover, you're an anthropologist of the United States and you want to get your master's in London? Why? Why would you want to go to a program whose faculty list you can't find? Be flexible about the composition of the faculty of your program, but surely it would behoove you to check out programs that have people who work on questions that are in the same ballpark as the ones you want to focus on. Moreover, I assume based on some of your information that you're either a citizen of or have a green card for the United States—it will be much easier for you to make some money on the side of an American master's degree than in London, where you will not be on a work-eligible visa, which would help limit your debt. (Unless I dramatically misunderstand UK immigration norms.) Given PhD stipends, let alone the likelihood of ending up on miserable adjunct wages for years if not indefinitely afterward, $50,000 of (new) debt is A LOT. I don't feel like advising you not to go into ANY (more) debt for this, but I think you should try to limit it to significantly less than $50,000.

I'm less sure than rising about the potential utility of qualitative research jobs for figuring out this sort of more high-level stuff. For my first two years out of college, I worked in a qualitative research-cum-other responsibilities sort of job, and none of my research had any bearing on anything I am now doing. I just re-grounded myself in my questions by hitting a nearby academic library a lot; it wasn't very exciting, but it worked out pretty well. Are you employed currently? In what sort of situation? I've heard people recommend academic night classes, but my experience is limited to night language classes. On the other hand, if you can find a qualitative research job that would help inform you on your questions (mine didn't), that would obviously be helpful.

I definitely second the recommendation to talk to your professors, although if we're in a "I was a chemistry major, all of my electives were art practicums, and now I want to focus on the anthropology of [something related to neither chemistry nor art]" situation, I realize you might not have an established relationship to draw on. If you do have those relationships, ask them; even if you don't, the faculty member whose interests most align with your own is still worth reaching out to for advice.

[striped]

@rising_star I was planning on moving to Ithaca and got some great advice from someone on here about what to do while reapplying to graduate programs, in a new city. She herself got an admin job at Cornell and gave me some great advice about staying in touch with faculty and attending public lectures. While I'm no longer moving to Ithaca, I've applied her advice to the city I have relocated to for the duration of a year (my hometown, San Diego). So, I am applying to jobs at the universities in the city so that I can remain close to the academic arena and be there on the scene when a professor needs a research assistant/other research opportunities. But, that is truly an ideal world. Without those connections, a place like indeed.com (where I've tried) is useless to me because I am way underqualified. The qualitative research positions are either not in my field, or I am completely underqualified. I'm trying to establish connections with professors whose work I am interested in/current grad students at the programs I am thinking of applying to/reapplying to, and I've sent probably close to a hundred emails to various people all asking for their help/insights on their program/faculty. There's not much more I can do in the way of that. I'm not trying to use MSc as a crutch- I'm trying to use it as a stepping stone given that I literally have no one to help me figure out the best path for my interests. I don't have published work, relevant research experience, I'm just a normal undergrad student trying to pursue higher education. I am more than happy to do the critical work on my own- I just need a place to start. 

@knp I actually have a BA in Anthropology and during my last semester did a somewhat substantial ethnographic project concerning identity conferment/construction by analyzing the SFMTA. I have what I feel is a solid foundation in anthropological theory/history/core ideas. The professor from the ethnography course is the one who encouraged me to apply to grad school and spent a lot of time drafting and editing my SoP for last application cycle. I've talked with her a lot about what I need to do, but she has offered little advice more than "most of academia is about the roll of the dice". So I've done a lot of outreach on my own to faculty members of the programs I want to apply to, as well as contacting the students of those programs. I wanted to consider getting my master's in London because it's a large metropolitan city and my research interests concern the West- I have focused a lot of my interest on cities in the U.S., but I also have kept in mind metro cities abroad as well. I also feel like I need a change of pace, and I feel like admitting that on here is sort of something to be ashamed of. 

 

I am considering applying to Cornell's program still, and their tuition is 60k/yr + living costs for two years. I would be 150k in debt just for a masters- I don't see why people here object so much to master's programs! They aren't useless and give one a solid foundation. I just don't see what I'm supposed to do if I can't get into a PhD program right out of undergrad- and if someone knows how I can, please let me know!  

I am actually looking for a job again now that I've relocated cities and like I said before, I am really trying to just limit my search to jobs at universities in San Diego. 

[knp]

Really? Maybe this is just me—and I have gotten heat for this opinion before*—but I think of master's programs as being great solutions for people who are changing fields and/or got noncompetitive degrees, i.e. graduated with very poor grades and/or without doing more than about ten pages of original research in a single project. If you haven't done significant research in your intended field and/or topic, a lot of the time, master's programs seem like great idea. But you have an anthropology BA, and that final-semester project you did sounds like a great introduction to independent research, and it was on a subject very close to the topic you intend to pursue. It seems like you're actually way ahead of the research curve: at the time of application, I had done three hours of ethnographic fieldwork. So because you do have that foundation, I'm not really understanding what more a master's degree would get you. 

*I got a bit of a drubbing from another poster for thinking I was "too good" to apply to master's degrees, so don't worry, opinions on this definitely go both ways. "Everybody on here" is definitely not opposed to them.

That said, of course getting a master's in London would be wonderful if it were paid for, but since the US options for that are by and large limited to Fulbright/Rhodes/Marshall, it's not a course of action I feel comfortable flat-out recommending. But if you really think you need a master's degree, you might try getting one that is less prestigious than either LSE or Cornell—there are more schools than that in the world!—but that would pay you with a TAship to attend. If I can be frank, I have some wealthy friends who, when confronted after college with too many choices to pick their ideal career within their first three months on the job market, panicked and had their parents pay tens of thousands of dollars for master's degrees, often in Britain. Now, you may not be in that situation, but when I see high-prestige, expensive master's degrees without a source of funding specified, those friends are my basis for comparison as I hm and tsk to myself and think a little bit less of that CV. I have no doubt that this is a minority opinion in academia; nevertheless, $50k is a rather expensive way to broaden your horizons. You might be rewarded for your investment, because many things in academia reward access to abundant capital; I've taken advantage of that by saving up and paying for the night classes that I believe legitimized my application, but I should stop there because nobody wants to hear all my feelings on the subject.

So, what are your interests? Women and gender studies? The environment? Politics? Are you searching for jobs in non-profits in that field, especially those that aren't based out of San Diego universities? It's an election year, so everybody is even more active than usual; I wonder if you could find a non-academic job in something vaguely related to your interests. Many to all of those non-profit jobs are low-to-no-pay, so I understand if you need something better remunerated than that, but perhaps campaigning for some ballot measure on the weekends would help you feel like you were staying connected to your end goals.

[rising_star]

Wait, we just went from $50K to $150K of debt? For the record, I'm not saying a master's degree is always a bad idea but, in your particular situation, striped, I'm also not convinced taking on that much debt is a good idea. (Also, I did a funded master's, so I clearly am not opposed to the idea.) If you really think a master's in anthropology is necessary to get into PhD programs (and it's definitely not if you look at the CV/websites of current anthro PhD students, most of whom pick up the MA along the way to the PhD), then why not do as knp has suggested and try to find one which offers at least some funding? If, for example, you establish (or already have) California residency, the in-state tuition rate would enable you to work toward a master's for WAY less than $50-150K in debt, particularly if you did a master's in the Cal State system. So I guess the questions I'm still left with are why is it LSE, Cornell, or bust to you? What do those two programs have to offer that you literally could not gain any other way?

FWIW, I think you (and anyone else looking to apply) could gain a lot by doing a ton of independent reading in and around your research area while taking a gap year (or two or three). A PhD program is intense and having that break beforehand is actually really helpful (which is also why adcoms tend not to accept people straight out of undergrad). Why are you so reluctant to pursue this path? Why is it so urgent for you to start a master's program this fall, rather than waiting to find one that is the right fit for what you need?

[knp]

Exactly, a CSU master's degree might be a great fit for you. (This is where my lack of specific knowledge of suggestions made me less helpful!) You can get master's degrees in this country for far less than $50k in debt...and if you're going to be earning $15-20k for the subsequent 15-20 years of your life, that really is something you should aim for. Cornell: bad idea. Low-debt master's: good idea. (Not a better idea than working, but both could be good options for you.)

5 hours ago, rising_star said:

Why is it so urgent for you to start a master's program this fall, rather than waiting to find one that is the right fit for what you need?

Right, I wouldn't have gotten into my program if I'd applied in any of my previous working years or if I'd applied as an undergrad; I think I probably could have gotten into a PhD program in my old humanities field with a different topic I'd been thinking about (one I wouldn't have ended up liking very much) if I'd applied in my second year "off," but the topic I'm actually excited to work on for 7-10 years and my more mature approach to it only coalesced in the June before I applied, i.e. when I was 24. Which is still young, for what it's worth—I know college distorts your sense of age, but having more working/friend peers in their 30s and 40s helped me clear my head of that faulty lens.

The two other red flags I saw in your letter was that you'd sent close to a hundred emails to students and faculty across the country (!) and say you've gotten no helpful advice from any of them. That strikes me as a bad sign; were you mass-emailing, or were they recommending things you don't want to do, or what? Can you tell us more about that? The second was that you say you have "literally have no one to help me figure out the best path for my interests." With an anthropology BA from Cornell (or one of the other good liberal arts colleges in the region), how is that possible? Okay, so your one professor was talking too much about "rolls of the dice" and that wasn't very helpful. But surely at some point in your undergrad career you've met a second anthropology professor, even if they were in a field farther removed from your own? "How (or whether) to get into graduate school" is a subject on which almost all of the anthropology professors in your department should be fluent, regardless of what they know about your specific topic, so I would suggest reaching out to the one you knew second best.

Edited June 29, 2016 by knp

[striped]

Ha, I feel like I haven't explained my situation properly! I am not set on LSE, Cornell, or bust- those are just the programs I've looked into the most since reopening my investigations into programs. Last year I applied to three UC schools, Northwestern, Duke, Notre Dame, and Michigan. I feel I was very naive, not only applying to PhD programs right out the gate, but to apply to such prestigious ones that my application was likely laughed out of. Also,  the UC system is absolutely broke and I caught wind that only >5 people were admitted to each one (Berkeley, LA, SD). Cornell and LSE are very prestigious institutions as well, but in the case of Cornell, there is a huge anthro faculty, many of whom share my specific interests and I think I would be at least competitive if I applied there (and established connections beforehand). 

The Cal state system is viable, but again, I would have to go into a substantial amount of debt- tuition is 9k and living costs in San Diego are rising steadily, it would be another 20k in loans to accommodate those costs. It would be just around 60k in debt there as well. Pell grants are great if you qualify- which I'm not sure I would at this point. 

I graduated early with my BA in 2014- I've been getting (non relevant) work experience and trying to charter my path for my future. My life was recently totally shattered by some personal events and I am trying to rebuild from nothing- instead of just humbugging along, I want to get a start on a future I am absolutely sure about. I have been doing a lot of reading in things related to my research interests (modernity, aesthetics, technology), but I just want to get a real start on things. I've been putting my dreams on hold for other people my whole life and more importantly, the last couple of years. 

@knp The emails were actually all personalized- I spent a good 12 hours one day hammering them all out, reaching out to specific people, addressing their specific research interests (that I located on faculty pages/ current student pages) and asking questions about the application process for that specific program, successfully getting in, and others I asked simply how they prepared their research- was it vague at first and became narrowed down later? What exactly should I be preparing? Clearly my SoP last year wasn't strong enough, otherwise I may have had a chance to get in. I've gotten a few responses, all which have been very disappointing- faculty members who basically just say "applying is tough, good luck", or reply with a canned response to look at the program's website. 

Oh, and I actually don't have a BA from Cornell- you see, I was moving to Ithaca because my boyfriend is attending Cornell's law school, and I started looking into Cornell's anthro program because I would be there anyway. I am no longer moving to Ithaca, but I still did a lot of research on Cornell's program and it really seemed like a potential fit for me, so that is why I am still considering it. I went to a state school in San Francisco for my BA and it's one of the largest commuter schools in the state- it was very difficult to get to know students and professors alike just because it was so large and everyone was in their own world most of the time.

So I guess my question is this: What does one do if they are not competitive enough to get into a PhD program right away? Should you not get an MA simply because of debt? I only have so many options...

[knp]

@striped I'm sorry I came down hard on you, because I really didn't like it when people did that to me when I was misconceptualizing some things when I started this process a year and a half ago; at the same time, it ended up being helpful, so thank you for listening and I hope I can eventually be helpful to you also.

I misinterpreted what was going on with your background, and now that I understand better I agree that master's programs are be one avenue that could work for you. (I hope my rhetoric about who should go to them was not too harsh...I was a little cranky based on my misconceptions about you, so I was a bit ungenerous in my description of who they serve best, but it sounds like they might serve you well!) I think it sounds like what I would do, if I were you, is do some serious calculating of how much debt is reasonable to take on for a master's—assuming you end up in the 25th percentile or so of outcomes post-PhD, so little money but not worst-case scenario—and then see if I could find master's programs that would come in under that amount. Here's where I am really not that helpful; I have a good handle on what sort of funded or semi-funded master's programs can be recommended in art history, my area studies' languages and literatures, and a couple other more humanities things, but I have no idea about anthropology. I think many programs may offer to waive tuition through a TAship? Do some provide stipends? That's what a lot of my friends in other disciplines have done, but I don't know how it would work in anthropology. It's also just easier to work part-time through a master's if you get it in this country.

Anyway, the email problem sounds like you were reaching for help from the wrong source—if you could get detailed application advice from every professor by email, everybody would ask and the professors would have no time left. Two avenues that might work better are 1) emailing professors at your undergraduate institution who got their PhDs recently, because I think "hello I am an alumnus/a/x of University and I need help with thing, even though you don't know me" sometimes tends to get better responses than "hello I am a prospective student at University and..." 2) Send short emails to a couple professors you've met at area talks or are otherwise around your area and ask to get coffee sometime; I've had professors at universities that interested me be much more receptive to "can we talk for twenty minutes/half an hour on this day" than to an unspecified amount of helping time spread out over the internet. Or do you know any students from your university who went on to any form of graduate school?

Do feel free to send me your SOP by PM sometime, whether your old one from last cycle or your new one for next year. I'd be happy to help.

[striped]

@knp You didn't come off that way at all! It's hard to give anything more than blunt, broad advice because we all don't know each other's exact situations. Your advice here and on other posts of mine has always been very insightful and appreciated! I will take you up on your offer to look at my SoP sometime! Thank you very much  

[knp]

Of course! I wish you all the best, and I'll be on sporadically to check my PMs for anything you want to send me.