Difficulty with choosing between two labs for PhD based on interest

[EIA0010]

So I applied to two programs at my first choice university, and was fortunate enough to be accepted into both. I also had a PI in mind from each program, one of which I have been working with as a research analyst for the past few months (let's call PI A). I've also had extensive meetings with the other PI (PI B ) over the last couple of months, discussing the lab culture, the type of projects potentially available, and other things I thought were important to ask. I've had the offers of admission to both for almost a month now, but the time to make a decision (which I've been avoiding) has come.

My struggle to make a decision really comes down to which research topic I "feel" I would be more passionate about. Both are research topics I would feel more than happy to be involved with, but PI's B topic is something I dreamed of working on for some time, even when I was just barely starting my masters. However, after being able to have some private conversations with one of PI B's senior doctoral students, there were definitely some red flags that came up. Most of these regarded his lack of supervision at times, with helping his students achieve success not being high on his priority list (this was according to the student). He also was said to be an unpleasant person to work with sometimes, having no issue with scolding his students in front of their peers, thus keeping his students on their toes when he's around. The student also said that he's noticed that the senior students (3+ years into their PhD) have few publications (I attribute this simply due to the nature of the work itself however (developmental neurobiology), where experiments can easily take over a year just to complete data collection), leading to students to scramble to complete other projects not of their interest/not related to their thesis topic, just to reach the minimum paper count to graduate (3 papers for this department). However, like I mentioned, the research is just so interesting to me, and he's well funded (and I mean EXTREMELY well funded). The work is a bit outside of my masters, so there would be a lot of new things to learn as well (but that's always a part of grad school anyways).

I've worked with PI A for some time (few months) so I'm becoming familiar with the research being done. I can seriously not think of working for a better PI. He is always available for discussions, always willing to offer advice/help if requested, always comes off with warmth and friendliness, and you can just see that he has a genuine investment in helping his students succeed. His lab is also well funded (numerous experiments are ongoing or will be soon), it's just not close to the dollar amount of PI B, but the nature of their experiments are very different, with PI B being much more intensive and expensive (so I don't think it's fair to compare dollars). Students part of this bigger group he is part of do get great publications (he just started his lab, so there were no senior PhD students to talk to, although I spoke to other students who he mentors in this bigger group he's apart of). This is a lab environment I would feel lucky to be a part of, and I think I can succeed here as well.

At this time, I'm heavily leaning towards PI A. I think what this conflict comes down to (and what I was hoping for you advice on) is the decision between working on what you see as your number one "passion" topic, versus choosing another topic/group that you feel you may achieve more success with. From what I've read on other forums (as well as to speaking to some former mentors), only willing to work on a topic that you view as your dream research field can hinder you in the long run, and remaining flexible in what you want to work on is important. Also, I know that the advisor/work environment is so important, and in my eyes, A "wins" this hands down.

Any advice would really be appreciated. Thank you.

Edited July 6, 2016 by EIA0010

[St Andrews Lynx]

1 hour ago, EIA0010 said:

At this time, I'm heavily leaning towards PI A. I think what this conflict comes down to (and what I was hoping for you advice on) is the decision between working on what you see as your number one "passion" topic, versus choosing another topic/group that you feel you may achieve more success with. From what I've read on other forums (as well as to speaking to some former mentors), only willing to work on a topic that you view as your dream research field can hinder you in the long run, and remaining flexible in what you want to work on is important. Also, I know that the advisor/work environment is so important, and in my eyes, A "wins" this hands down.

I agree with how you're thinking about this, and think that PI A sounds like a good choice. 

You shouldn't be working on a research project that bores you to tears...but nor should you sacrifice your own happiness and professional development/training just to do that one research project. There's always the risk that your dream project will fall through: PI doesn't want you to work on that; project fails completely and you need to work on something totally different; you realise you weren't as interested in the topic as you thought you'd be. 

[MathCat]

I agree with your reasoning entirely: A seems like the better choice. 

[rising_star]

It only took me about 20 seconds of skimming to know that A is the better choice for you based on what you're outlined. The part St Andrews Lynx quoted above is precisely what stood out to me too when I read your whole post.

[EIA0010]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm still debating between the two at this point, but am heavily leaning towards A.

[TakeruK]

A. A. A. A. A. A. A.

Definitely A. 

In addition what is said above, everyone I know (including myself) who has heard warning signs about an advisor and thought "oh, but it will be different for me", was wrong. Most people who hear warning signs will think they will be okay, and I think that's normal because as academics, we are trained in the value of determining things for ourselves. But everyone I know who thought this was wrong. Some people were able to still make it work, or change advisor after a year or two, so it's not like it's the end of your career if it doesn't work out. So go with PI B if you're willing to take the risk. However, from your post, it's so clear that A is the only sensible choice, for me.

Finally, to reiterate St Andrews Lynx's advice: your research interests and passions will change over time but an advisor's style is almost certainly fixed. For a better work experience, I'd pick advising style and working relationship fit over research topic on any day.

[EIA0010]

On 2016-07-10 at 3:41 AM, TakeruK said:

A. A. A. A. A. A. A.

Definitely A. 

In addition what is said above, everyone I know (including myself) who has heard warning signs about an advisor and thought "oh, but it will be different for me", was wrong. Most people who hear warning signs will think they will be okay, and I think that's normal because as academics, we are trained in the value of determining things for ourselves. But everyone I know who thought this was wrong. Some people were able to still make it work, or change advisor after a year or two, so it's not like it's the end of your career if it doesn't work out. So go with PI B if you're willing to take the risk. However, from your post, it's so clear that A is the only sensible choice, for me.

Finally, to reiterate St Andrews Lynx's advice: your research interests and passions will change over time but an advisor's style is almost certainly fixed. For a better work experience, I'd pick advising style and working relationship fit over research topic on any day.

Thanks for that. You perfectly described what was going through my head, the idea that "things will be different for me" compared to what his 4/5 students he's had thus far have gone through. The field of research was perfect (in regards to my interests) but like you and others have said, I rather go with something I'm a bit less interested in comparison (but still interested), but have the opportunity to work with a great supervisor in a wonderful lab environment, all of which I think can help me more in the long run, and something I don't want to risk losing simply based on chasing what I feel is like my passion topic at the time.

Edited July 17, 2016 by EIA0010