GRE Retake / Advice Query

[Bastille]

Hey, guys. So for a variety of reasons, I didn't realize I was going to be applying to graduate school until early December. I took the GRE on December 20, with basically no prep (other than a bit of math review). My scores are.

V: 580 82

Q: 800 94

AW: 4.5 63

Obviously, the V and AW are not quite as high as I'd like.

My situation is that I have applied to a bunch of the top MPP / MPA programs. My undergrad GPA is 3.9 (from a lower ivy): writing intensive social sciences major, with a good number of political theory / philosophy classes thrown in. I have two years of WE: 1 private sector (large investment bank) and 1 public sector (policy related in governor's office).

I am sure that I can do better, especially on the AW. But is it worth it to retake the GRE at this point? I would probably need until late Jan to get a reasonable amount of studying in, and am uncertain whether that's too late in the admissions cycle to matter, even if it would conceivably make a difference in my chances.

Thanks a bunch, and happy new decade.

Edited January 2, 2010 by Bastille

[greendiplomat]

As a writing-intensive social sciences major, the only thing that you needed to prove was your quantitative skills; they'll probably assume that your verbal skills are decent, and writing style can be shown through the SOP. So, given that you have an 800 in quantitative, I'd say don't worry about the GRE. Congratulations.

Even if it were worth retaking the GRE, it's definitely more worth your time to separate yourself from the rest of the applicant pool by refining your SOPs, etc.... either way, it would probably be too late at this point, given that most deadlines are in the next few weeks.

Hope that helps.

[riz1]

I agree with the Diplomat in that you don't have much time, and you should worry less about your GRE score and more about making your SoP and other writing samples pop. I disagree, however, in that your major may not compensate for your lower V score. If anything, an adcomm might wonder why your V score is so low if your major was so writing-intensive.

If I put myself in the shoes of an adcomm member, here's what I would be thinking: in addition to the above, you've listed your GPA here as a 3.9 -- is it fair to understand that's your cumulative GPA? I would definitely look into your major classes to see how well you fared in those ... perhaps your major GPA is lower than near perfect, and your overall GPA is buoyed by non-major classes. If that is the case, your lower V score would be more understandable -- though not any more excusable.

So my feeling is that if your studies for four to five years were writing-intensive, your GRE should have been a relative walk in the park, and your V score would have reflected your natural facility with the English language.

I apologize if this all seems pessimistic ... I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer. But I know adcomms and understand how they think -- especially those at HKS and Fletcher. If other "top MPP / MPA programs" think the same way -- and I think it's safe to believe they do -- you should really focus on your statements. Diplomat is also right in that you can demonstrate your English competency through those statements -- but if any of your schools require or even offer interviews, be prepared to discuss your V score then.

Best of luck, and remember to breathe!

[Bastille]

Haha.. yes, well. My Overall gpa is 3.9, major is 3.92, including an award for the best honors thesis in my dept. For what it's worth, I also had a 1600 SAT back in the day, and a 790 on the writing SATII. My problem with the GRE was, I believe, difficulty with long passages and no ability to highlight (as it's on the computer screen). I was hit with a very long reading comp pretty early in the test, which is what I think threw me off.

In any event, the plan is to apply with the score that I have, and potentially retake in late January, sending in the new scores while my app is under consideration.

My original question was whether late Jan / Early Feb is too late to be read. (The schools indicate decisions send out around mid March.)

I agree with the Diplomat in that you don't have much time, and you should worry less about your GRE score and more about making your SoP and other writing samples pop. I disagree, however, in that your major may not compensate for your lower V score. If anything, an adcomm might wonder why your V score is so low if your major was so writing-intensive.

If I put myself in the shoes of an adcomm member, here's what I would be thinking: in addition to the above, you've listed your GPA here as a 3.9 -- is it fair to understand that's your cumulative GPA? I would definitely look into your major classes to see how well you fared in those ... perhaps your major GPA is lower than near perfect, and your overall GPA is buoyed by non-major classes. If that is the case, your lower V score would be more understandable -- though not any more excusable.

So my feeling is that if your studies for four to five years were writing-intensive, your GRE should have been a relative walk in the park, and your V score would have reflected your natural facility with the English language.

I apologize if this all seems pessimistic ... I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer. But I know adcomms and understand how they think -- especially those at HKS and Fletcher. If other "top MPP / MPA programs" think the same way -- and I think it's safe to believe they do -- you should really focus on your statements. Diplomat is also right in that you can demonstrate your English competency through those statements -- but if any of your schools require or even offer interviews, be prepared to discuss your V score then.

Best of luck, and remember to breathe!

[cosmike10]

i think you'll be fine. just keep believing in your qualifications. your retake will probably arrive in time too. an aside: i know its not in the 600s or above like everyone would like, but you're still above the 80th percentile. i think the AW portion should be a higher priority than the verbal score for your retake and that you should highlight your writing talent as much as possible in the application.

[sky_blue]

i think you'll be fine. just keep believing in your qualifications. your retake will probably arrive in time too. an aside: i know its not in the 600s or above like everyone would like, but you're still above the 80th percentile. i think the AW portion should be a higher priority than the verbal score for your retake and that you should highlight your writing talent as much as possible in the application.

i agree with cosmike. GRE is but one factor taken into account and your verbal score is really not low enough to be cut off automatically. Moreover, adcomms know that not everyone is good at taking standardized tests and everyone has their off-days.

SOPs are of paramount importance so instead of worrying over your scores, do all you can to sell yourself through your SOPs!

[greendiplomat]

If I put myself in the shoes of an adcomm member, here's what I would be thinking: in addition to the above, you've listed your GPA here as a 3.9 -- is it fair to understand that's your cumulative GPA? I would definitely look into your major classes to see how well you fared in those ... perhaps your major GPA is lower than near perfect, and your overall GPA is buoyed by non-major classes. If that is the case, your lower V score would be more understandable -- though not any more excusable.

I think it's a stretch to say that his scores are "inexcusable". At the end of the day, performance at grad school has NOTHING to do with whether you know what "sartorial" means (pulling a random word that I got on test day), and I think the admissions committee recognizes that (basic math, on the other hand, is reflective of your ability to handle more advanced-level math required in econ/quant classes). If I were on the adcomm, I'd probably think the opposite of what you suggested. A stellar GPA from a 4-year undergraduate career at a "lower ivy" (though I don't like that term, since I had my school called that by a girl from a "higher ivy" that happened to be a certain 5-letter word), means that you can write, at least to the point of being successful in academia; a less-than-stellar GRE score from a 30-minute test, on the other hand, could be from a bad outing and doesn't disprove what's established by a 3.9 from an ivy.

[riz1]

I suggested something might be less excusable -- that isn't the same as it being inexcusable altogether. At any rate, the OP cleared up the question I had.

[jndaven]

You got an 800 on the Quant!!! That's all that matters. However, if you want to take it again, I have heard Harvard KSG adcoms say at an admission session in December that mid-January is the latest you can take it so that they get the scores in time--and this was pushing it. Remember, it takes a few weeks for them to get the mailed confirmation of scores.