Will a post-bacc program/RA position increase my chances?

[facelessbeauty]

Undergrad institution:US top 30 liberal arts school (depending on rankings)
Major: Biology
Minor: Psychology
GPA in Major: 3.42 or something like that, should be higher when I graduate given trends in my grades
Overall GPA: 3.45, which also should be above 3.5 when I graduate
Type of student: Domestic, minority female, current senior

I have not taken the GRE yet, but I plan to after graduation in May.

Research experience: Summer research internship that I found by contacting a local PI whose research focused on the role of monoamine neurotransmitters and associated neuropeptides in stress related pathology. I got a poster and a presentation out of it, and a really good relationship with the lab. I still volunteer there from time to time, and am scheduled to present my poster at the local Society for Neuroscience chapter early next year. Additionally, I am in the processes of doing research at my home institution for a thesis. My project for the thesis is more based on neuroethology and contains more physiology than pharmacology, and even though this is not my primary interest I do like that I am getting to do electophysiological assays.

Awards/Honors: 4 Year Full Tuition Leadership scholarship from a national organization affiliated with my college. I am on track to graduate Cum Laude (as if that matters).

Activities/Jobs: I have been a TA for the introductory biology lab course for 2 years, so I have gotten to help students and do the more time consuming parts of experiments that focus heavily on molecular biology and genetics (which is the dominant focus of the bio department at my school). I am also head of a committee that advocates for the needs of students in STEM majors, where we have focused on improving career resources and advising for these students (which pales in comparison to what is available at large research institutions and probably Ivies). Heavily involved in student government all four years, as well as cultural groups on campus. These positions have taught me how to manage finances for clubs and manage larger projects and events. In my spare time, my SO and I are working on a book about mental illness or something to that effect. I'll let you know if we actually get somewhere!

Applying to Where: I'm not applying this round, but next round (Fall 2018). But here are the following schools I am looking into, ranked in order by how much I want to go there. The list is short for now as I am still trying to come up with a list of 6-7 schools worth applying to. It should be noted that I am looking to go into a master's program as opposed to a PhD, because I don't think my grades + experience are quite there and I am not sure if I want to go the PhD route. I know that in the case of Penn, you are essentially getting a master, but also are basically being streamlined into the PhD program after a year. I listed it as an option seeing as quite a few people who graduate from my school do end up going to U Penn to get graduate degrees if they don't get an RA position there after graduating.

University of Toronto - Pharmacology & Toxicology

McGill - Integrative Program in Neuroscience/Psychiatry/Pharmacology (unsure which one suits my needs)

Drexel Graduate School of Biomedical and Professional Studies - Pharmacology & Physiology (I did my internship here)

UPenn BGS - Neuroscience

Special Bonus Points: Minority status may help in the states, but I doubt it means much for Canadian schools.
 

Other Info: I am also sort of pre-med, which shows in my coursework, but unsure if I actually want to commit to going to medical school. Additionally, exposure to certain topics in some of my courses really has me interested in the research side of things. Organic chemistry was not my friend but I received merit grades (no lower than  B- though), however I did much better in lab than I did in lecture, but unfortunately the grade on my transcript does not reflect that considering that the lab course and the lecture course are combined into one grade. The same could be said for a lot of the courses in which I took lab courses actually, but my grades in all my other courses are much better. Additionally, a lot of my psych coursework is more neuroscience based or health related. Finally, I have taken two research methods/statistics courses, both of which have taught me how to use R (bio stats) and SPSS (psych stats).

My main issue is that I don't think I am competitive for any of the master's programs I want to attend, so I was planning to use my gap year to not only delve further into my research interests, but to also get more research experience. Several alums have recommended that I go for an IRTA program at NIH, and I am considering that. However, i also have a great relationship with the lab I interned at and I know the tech is leaving this spring. I may consider taking his position also. The second option is more ideal because then I could resume work with the project I worked on over the summer, assuming my PI successfully secured grant funding to do a lot more with it. Would doing either of these things make me more competitive for the programs I am interested in?

[Bioenchilada]

What do you want to do with a master's? 

[Bioenchilada]

Also, I am fairly sure that UPenn does not offer a neuroscience master's through BGS. 

2 hours ago, facelessbeauty said:

Undergrad institution:US top 30 liberal arts school (depending on rankings)
Major: Biology
Minor: Psychology
GPA in Major: 3.42 or something like that, should be higher when I graduate given trends in my grades
Overall GPA: 3.45, which also should be above 3.5 when I graduate
Type of student: Domestic, minority female, current senior

I have not taken the GRE yet, but I plan to after graduation in May.

Research experience: Summer research internship that I found by contacting a local PI whose research focused on the role of monoamine neurotransmitters and associated neuropeptides in stress related pathology. I got a poster and a presentation out of it, and a really good relationship with the lab. I still volunteer there from time to time, and am scheduled to present my poster at the local Society for Neuroscience chapter early next year. Additionally, I am in the processes of doing research at my home institution for a thesis. My project for the thesis is more based on neuroethology and contains more physiology than pharmacology, and even though this is not my primary interest I do like that I am getting to do electophysiological assays.

Awards/Honors: 4 Year Full Tuition Leadership scholarship from a national organization affiliated with my college. I am on track to graduate Cum Laude (as if that matters).

Activities/Jobs: I have been a TA for the introductory biology lab course for 2 years, so I have gotten to help students and do the more time consuming parts of experiments that focus heavily on molecular biology and genetics (which is the dominant focus of the bio department at my school). I am also head of a committee that advocates for the needs of students in STEM majors, where we have focused on improving career resources and advising for these students (which pales in comparison to what is available at large research institutions and probably Ivies). Heavily involved in student government all four years, as well as cultural groups on campus. These positions have taught me how to manage finances for clubs and manage larger projects and events. In my spare time, my SO and I are working on a book about mental illness or something to that effect. I'll let you know if we actually get somewhere!

Applying to Where: I'm not applying this round, but next round (Fall 2018). But here are the following schools I am looking into, ranked in order by how much I want to go there. The list is short for now as I am still trying to come up with a list of 6-7 schools worth applying to. It should be noted that I am looking to go into a master's program as opposed to a PhD, because I don't think my grades + experience are quite there and I am not sure if I want to go the PhD route. I know that in the case of Penn, you are essentially getting a master, but also are basically being streamlined into the PhD program after a year. I listed it as an option seeing as quite a few people who graduate from my school do end up going to U Penn to get graduate degrees if they don't get an RA position there after graduating.

University of Toronto - Pharmacology & Toxicology

McGill - Integrative Program in Neuroscience/Psychiatry/Pharmacology (unsure which one suits my needs)

Drexel Graduate School of Biomedical and Professional Studies - Pharmacology & Physiology (I did my internship here)

UPenn BGS - Neuroscience

Special Bonus Points: Minority status may help in the states, but I doubt it means much for Canadian schools.
 

Other Info: I am also sort of pre-med, which shows in my coursework, but unsure if I actually want to commit to going to medical school. Additionally, exposure to certain topics in some of my courses really has me interested in the research side of things. Organic chemistry was not my friend but I received merit grades (no lower than  B- though), however I did much better in lab than I did in lecture, but unfortunately the grade on my transcript does not reflect that considering that the lab course and the lecture course are combined into one grade. The same could be said for a lot of the courses in which I took lab courses actually, but my grades in all my other courses are much better. Additionally, a lot of my psych coursework is more neuroscience based or health related. Finally, I have taken two research methods/statistics courses, both of which have taught me how to use R (bio stats) and SPSS (psych stats).

My main issue is that I don't think I am competitive for any of the master's programs I want to attend, so I was planning to use my gap year to not only delve further into my research interests, but to also get more research experience. Several alums have recommended that I go for an IRTA program at NIH, and I am considering that. However, i also have a great relationship with the lab I interned at and I know the tech is leaving this spring. I may consider taking his position also. The second option is more ideal because then I could resume work with the project I worked on over the summer, assuming my PI successfully secured grant funding to do a lot more with it. Would doing either of these things make me more competitive for the programs I am interested in?

 

[facelessbeauty]

4 minutes ago, Bioenchilada said:

What do you want to do with a master's? 

I want to get a Master to see if I really enjoy research enough to pursue a PhD as opposed to going to medical school and working with patients or something. I know people have suggested I go the M.D./PhD programs, but from what I know of general cutoffs and stats, I don't think that I am competitive in terms of academics or experienced enough to qualify for that. That being said, I know that a PhD is a whole different ball game, but similarly to going straight for an MD/PhD I simply don't feel the least bit prepared. For my top choice (U of T), it would be best for me to apply to the master's program anyway seeing as you can always transfer in after the first 12 months in the program.

I know where my interests lie (translational research/medicine if not pre-clinical research, particularly for addiction/psychiatric illness), just not the most appropriate channels for approaching them, I guess. That being said, I definitely wouldn't stop at a master's degree.

[facelessbeauty]

13 minutes ago, Bioenchilada said:

Also, I am fairly sure that UPenn does not offer a neuroscience master's through BGS. 

 

This is information I was given by a friend who was applying to programs at Penn. That may have been relevant to her field.

[Bioenchilada]

I think having a 3.5 GPA would put you in a good position for PhD admissions, especially combined with a high GRE. Getting a master's is only really useful is you want to increase your GPA. I suggest you just try to get a job with the NIH, which you're competitive for, especially with previous experience. Extracurriculars don't matter for your PhD, unless research  related. Is there a reason why you would prefer to go to school in Canada? 

Also...

"The primary goal of the training program offered by the Neuroscience Graduate Group (NGG) is to develop first-rate scientists who excel in neuroscience research. The NGG program offers a PhD degree either alone or as part of a Combined Degree (CD) in tandem with either an MD or VMD degree.

The NGG does not have a Master of Science (MS) program and does not admit students who wish to obtain an MS degree. MS degrees are not ordinarily awarded at an intermediary point in the program. However, if a student leaves the program for compelling personal reasons or is asked to leave the program, the Academic Review Committee (ARC) may consider awarding a terminal MS degree, but only if the student: i) has completed two years of coursework and laboratory rotations, ii) is in good academic standing, and iii) has passed the Candidacy Exam."

[facelessbeauty]

1 minute ago, Bioenchilada said:

I think having a 3.5 GPA would put you in a good position for PhD admissions, especially combined with a high GRE. Getting a master's is only really useful is you want to increase your GPA. I suggest you just try to get a job with the NIH, which you're competitive for, especially with previous experience. Extracurriculars don't matter for your PhD, unless research  related. Is there a reason why you would prefer to go to school in Canada? 

Also...

"The primary goal of the training program offered by the Neuroscience Graduate Group (NGG) is to develop first-rate scientists who excel in neuroscience research. The NGG program offers a PhD degree either alone or as part of a Combined Degree (CD) in tandem with either an MD or VMD degree.

The NGG does not have a Master of Science (MS) program and does not admit students who wish to obtain an MS degree. MS degrees are not ordinarily awarded at an intermediary point in the program. However, if a student leaves the program for compelling personal reasons or is asked to leave the program, the Academic Review Committee (ARC) may consider awarding a terminal MS degree, but only if the student: i) has completed two years of coursework and laboratory rotations, ii) is in good academic standing, and iii) has passed the Candidacy Exam."

Thanks for the information about Penn. My friend made it seem as if all of Penn's PhD programs offered a Master's degree at some point during the PhD. She was applying in a different field, that actually has a master's program. The research being done by one of the faculty members at U of T (sadly, he's in the Psychiatry department at the medical school and I don't know if I would be able to work with him at all) caught my eye, and he seems to be spearheading this initiative started by NIH's National Institute of Mental Health (RDoc) in Canada to improve diagnostics and treatment for mental illnesses. There are others who are doing very similar work, and coupled with the fact that the neuroscience arm of the Pharmacology department has a couple of people working on similar things (with an albeit less clinical focus), I think that it would be a good fit for me. Having a significant other in Canada who wants to study related things and spending quite a bit of time in Eastern Ontario and the GTA really make me want to live there. But yeah, I agree that the IRTA would be great.

[Bioenchilada]

9 hours ago, facelessbeauty said:

Thanks for the information about Penn. My friend made it seem as if all of Penn's PhD programs offered a Master's degree at some point during the PhD. She was applying in a different field, that actually has a master's program. The research being done by one of the faculty members at U of T (sadly, he's in the Psychiatry department at the medical school and I don't know if I would be able to work with him at all) caught my eye, and he seems to be spearheading this initiative started by NIH's National Institute of Mental Health (RDoc) in Canada to improve diagnostics and treatment for mental illnesses. There are others who are doing very similar work, and coupled with the fact that the neuroscience arm of the Pharmacology department has a couple of people working on similar things (with an albeit less clinical focus), I think that it would be a good fit for me. Having a significant other in Canada who wants to study related things and spending quite a bit of time in Eastern Ontario and the GTA really make me want to live there. But yeah, I agree that the IRTA would be great.

If you apply to PhD programs, make sure you don't apply to a particular school because there's one person you want to work with. The number should be at least 5 because interests can change in 5 years, or the faculty member can just leave. Also, adcoms look for much more things than just faculty matching when reviewing apps and looking over your SOP. Working in the NIH will diversify your research experience and allow you to network with other people, besides adding a good rec letter to your package from a PI. It is worthy of mention that a lot of the positions are for 2 years, so make sure you can apply for Fall 2018 if you get an RA job. 

[LoveMysterious]

I am actually about to find out the answer to this question and hopefully I'll have some positive results next spring!

My uGPA is under a 3.0. Since graduating, I have worked as an RA full-time for 4 years and have co-authored several publications. To demonstrate my academic ability, I completed extra coursework and a year-long post bacc program at UC Berkeley's extension. My post-bacc GPA is 3.9 and all classes were upper division coursework. I am applying to a large spread of programs - some PhDs and some masters. We will see if this is enough to mitigate my low uGPA. 

From what I've read on this site, others have been able to overcome low GPAs with additional classes/post-bacc and research experience. I personally think that full-time research experience is invaluable, as it shows you are able to function as a scientist full time. But we will see what the adcoms think! 

[facelessbeauty]

 

8 hours ago, Bioenchilada said:

If you apply to PhD programs, make sure you don't apply to a particular school because there's one person you want to work with. The number should be at least 5 because interests can change in 5 years, or the faculty member can just leave. Also, adcoms look for much more things than just faculty matching when reviewing apps and looking over your SOP. Working in the NIH will diversify your research experience and allow you to network with other people, besides adding a good rec letter to your package from a PI. It is worthy of mention that a lot of the positions are for 2 years, so make sure you can apply for Fall 2018 if you get an RA job. 

 

I'm sorry if it wasn't clearer, but let me rephrase. While there is one researcher who I would love working with, I identified 4 or 5 other people I would also like to work with given the topics they study or the techniques they use. The same is true for McGill and Drexel, whereas there is maybe only one PI I would be interested in working with at Penn. What other elements should I incorporate into my SOP besides the obvious skills/techniques I've mastered and research interests? So far I have at least 2 if not 3 potential LORs that would be really strong, but I think having my third person be someone who is actually capable of speaking to my research abilities would be best.

 

3 hours ago, LoveMysterious said:

I am actually about to find out the answer to this question and hopefully I'll have some positive results next spring!

My uGPA is under a 3.0. Since graduating, I have worked as an RA full-time for 4 years and have co-authored several publications. To demonstrate my academic ability, I completed extra coursework and a year-long post bacc program at UC Berkeley's extension. My post-bacc GPA is 3.9 and all classes were upper division coursework. I am applying to a large spread of programs - some PhDs and some masters. We will see if this is enough to mitigate my low uGPA. 

From what I've read on this site, others have been able to overcome low GPAs with additional classes/post-bacc and research experience. I personally think that full-time research experience is invaluable, as it shows you are able to function as a scientist full time. But we will see what the adcoms think! 

 

Was your post-bacc program a PREP program or a pre-medical post-bacc? Could you speak more about what your course load was like and how classes fit in with your research schedule (assuming you did the course work while you were holding the RA position)?

[Bioenchilada]

44 minutes ago, facelessbeauty said:

 

 

I'm sorry if it wasn't clearer, but let me rephrase. While there is one researcher who I would love working with, I identified 4 or 5 other people I would also like to work with given the topics they study or the techniques they use. The same is true for McGill and Drexel, whereas there is maybe only one PI I would be interested in working with at Penn. What other elements should I incorporate into my SOP besides the obvious skills/techniques I've mastered and research interests? So far I have at least 2 if not 3 potential LORs that would be really strong, but I think having my third person be someone who is actually capable of speaking to my research abilities would be best.

 

 

Was your post-bacc program a PREP program or a pre-medical post-bacc? Could you speak more about what your course load was like and how classes fit in with your research schedule (assuming you did the course work while you were holding the RA position)?

You should state how you got interested in your research,talk about the projects you were involved with and the impact it had on your interests without getting too technical (no one cares about the techniques you learned if you cant put it into context), why you want to go to graduate school and how it will help you achieve your career goals, and why you're interested in X school/program. 

[LoveMysterious]

1 hour ago, facelessbeauty said:

Was your post-bacc program a PREP program or a pre-medical post-bacc? Could you speak more about what your course load was like and how classes fit in with your research schedule (assuming you did the course work while you were holding the RA position)?

Sure thing. This is the program I completed: http://extension.berkeley.edu/spos/advanced_biosciences.html . I also took several additional classes as well. I spent all of 2015 and 2016 taking classes and preparing myself for graduate school admission, but the program itself took me a little over a year to complete while working full time. This program is designed for scientists who are looking to either further their knowledge, or strengthen their grad school application. I believe there is a separate program for pre-med students. 

I really enjoyed the program. My professors were awesome, and they frequently interacted with me via forums and video messaging, so I felt like I got individual instruction as well. It was not easy, though. I had to work hard for As, though I did take difficult classes (immunology, medical micro...fun!). Some of the classes have a specific timeline that you follow, and others are self-paced and can be completed any time within a 3-6 month window. I generally work 8-9ish hours in the lab and then I stayed late at work to study about 5-10 hours a week, depending on the week. I'm aware that in gad school, you have to juggle research and classes, so this was a great practice run for me. You can PM me if you'd like more info.  

[ballwera]

On 11/28/2016 at 3:16 PM, LoveMysterious said:

I am actually about to find out the answer to this question and hopefully I'll have some positive results next spring!

My uGPA is under a 3.0. Since graduating, I have worked as an RA full-time for 4 years and have co-authored several publications. To demonstrate my academic ability, I completed extra coursework and a year-long post bacc program at UC Berkeley's extension. My post-bacc GPA is 3.9 and all classes were upper division coursework. I am applying to a large spread of programs - some PhDs and some masters. We will see if this is enough to mitigate my low uGPA. 

From what I've read on this site, others have been able to overcome low GPAs with additional classes/post-bacc and research experience. I personally think that full-time research experience is invaluable, as it shows you are able to function as a scientist full time. But we will see what the adcoms think! 

You'll be surprised when this was all over w/. I was in the exact same boat as you but w/ out an entire post-bacc ( took 2 online courses) and wasn't expecting much from my first application cycle. Ended up having to choose between multiple offers, and considering I wasn't expecting any at all that was an extremely difficult choice. I'm always rooting for my fellow low gpa applicants. Good luck!

[LoveMysterious]

10 minutes ago, ballwera said:

You'll be surprised when this was all over w/. I was in the exact same boat as you but w/ out an entire post-bacc ( took 2 online courses) and wasn't expecting much from my first application cycle. Ended up having to choose between multiple offers, and considering I wasn't expecting any at all that was an extremely difficult choice. I'm always rooting for my fellow low gpa applicants. Good luck!

You just made my day. I just submitted my PhD applications this morning, and now I have a tiny bit of hope :). Thank you!