So why do schools need to know other schools I'm applying to anyway?

[Anita]

See, every app has a section where you're supposed to list all the other schools you're applying to. I remember them doing that for college apps too, and back then nobody knew what that was for either I presume this time it actually has a purpose though, which I guess is so schools can see what other schools can scoop you from under their nose. I imagine in that case, there must be an optimal, game-theory-backed way to fill out that field based on what other schools are most likely to make them nervous, but...well, what do I know about game theory?

[NEPA]

I think only two of mine had that section, one of which assured me it would have no bearing on my application, which I thought was a bit obvious. I kind of shrugged them off as attempts by the grad school and/or department to get some statistics on where else their applicants are applying. Maybe they use some sort of ranking system and like to compare the other schools to their rank and vice versa.

[fuzzylogician]

Mostly schools want to know who their competition is. I assume they use this info to make themselves more attractive to applicants in the following years.

[JustChill]

I left all of those sections blank. There is no need to tell them unless the department asks specifically.

[fancypants09]

Mostly schools want to know who their competition is. I assume they use this info to make themselves more attractive to applicants in the following years.

Agreed. It gives the schools factual data for stating in future admissions brochures that admitted students also applied to other competitive programs.

Edited January 14, 2010 by fancypants09

[socialpsych]

It could be that they just want the factual data and statistics. Or it could be that they are going to use the list in determining whether to admit you, as a basis for speculating about where you're most likely to go given your interests.

Programs do occasionally engage in the latter. Actually, the more dangerous question for that is, later on in the season, "Have you heard back from anywhere?" or "Are you considering any other offers right now?" -- of course they can't know what options you'll actually have just from where you applied, but once they know something more concrete, they are free to speculate.

I don't think this is enough of a problem that you should leave that section blank on the application, but it's something to be aware of in a few weeks when the interviews start.

[Tam]

None of my (eight) applications asked that. Interesting.

[jordy]

Only one of mine asked this. Not entirely surprisingly, it was the Ivy.

On another note, I went for an informal visit/interview at my favorite program (by invitation, following a great phone call with POI) and most people (except the POI) asked me this directly. They didn't seem to have an issue with it, and I didn't feel uncomfortable telling them. Now I'm not so naive to think there isn't a possibility that it could have a negative effect, but based on the tone and context of conversations, it seemed like a genuine curiosity rather than an attempt to weigh my value as an applicant. If it did have some practical purpose, it seemed much more likely that they wanted to know how "easy" it might be for them to get me to accept, rather than an assessment of what kind of student I am (though it could possibly convey how wise you were in your choices; you can make certain inferences about someone who blindly applies to only the top 10 programs versus someone with a well-thought out range based on research interests). After all, these programs have the same sufficient information about you to make their own decisions. Plus, I would think that if they like you, they are just as curious about who *you* would choose from among a range of offers, just as we want to know about the application pool.

Just my thoughts.

Edited January 16, 2010 by jordy

[socialpsych]

On another note, I went for an informal visit/interview at my favorite program (by invitation, following a great phone call with POI) and most people (except the POI) asked me this directly. They didn't seem to have an issue with it, and I didn't feel uncomfortable telling them. Now I'm not so naive to think there isn't a possibility that it could have a negative effect, but based on the tone and context of conversations, it seemed like a genuine curiosity rather than an attempt to weigh my value as an applicant.

Of course, this happens a lot too. People have opinions about different programs, and often they just want to give you advice! I think you can trust your instincts here. Once you are aware of the possibility that programs might actually use your expressed interest in considering whether to give you an offer, it is often easy to tell when people are fishing for that info for a reason vs. when they are just curious. The only danger is if, in a committee meeting, someone who got some info through being honestly well-meaning is suddenly under pressure to share when it could actually affect whether you get an offer...

I probably sound completely crazy to some of you, but I experienced a lot of this when I applied -- way more than I expected -- and I think it puts applicants in a somewhat unfair position. As savvy applicants, we should all try to prevent people from taking advantage of our honesty!

If it did have some practical purpose, it seemed much more likely that they wanted to know how "easy" it might be for them to get me to accept, rather than an assessment of what kind of student I am

Yes, I think this is the more common way programs use this information. It can still affect your chances negatively if they have the sense that you are unlikely to accept an offer from them.

Edited January 16, 2010 by socialpsych

[whereiscarmen]

So should we list schools that are higher, similar, or less ranked than the school that is asking this question?

[jordy]

Of course, this happens a lot too. People have opinions about different programs, and often they just want to give you advice! I think you can trust your instincts here. Once you are aware of the possibility that programs might actually use your expressed interest in considering whether to give you an offer, it is often easy to tell when people are fishing for that info for a reason vs. when they are just curious. The only danger is if, in a committee meeting, someone who got some info through being honestly well-meaning is suddenly under pressure to share when it could actually affect whether you get an offer...

I probably sound completely crazy to some of you, but I experienced a lot of this when I applied -- way more than I expected -- and I think it puts applicants in a somewhat unfair position. As savvy applicants, we should all try to prevent people from taking advantage of our honesty!

Yes, I think this is the more common way programs use this information. It can still affect your chances negatively if they have the sense that you are unlikely to accept an offer from them.

I agree that it is up to you whether or not to share this information, though also that it could be uncomfortable in a certain context. I'm starting to think about how I would handle that if I wasn't exactly comfortable....I suppose something that could work in this case is to say something general and then steer the topic a little ("Oh, a range of programs, but mostly ones that also have a focus on [subtopic]", or something like that). Hmm, would that give them the hint that you aren't exactly comfortable with that question?

I admit that even if I wasn't bothered by the question, I was a little surprised. It seems like a personal question...like "So, are you seeing other people?"

(Luckily, things were going very well during my visit, and at the very least I was clear that I reciprocated the interest...)

[jacib]

So should we list schools that are higher, similar, or less ranked than the school that is asking this question?

I was told to put down similar institutions, meaning especially similarity in program structure, rather than just ranking. You don't need to list any, or all of them, but my ten schools split nicely into two categories, (all about equally ranked) so I put five on for each app that asked.

Edited January 16, 2010 by jacib

[socialpsych]

I'm starting to think about how I would handle that if I wasn't exactly comfortable....I suppose something that could work in this case is to say something general and then steer the topic a little ("Oh, a range of programs, but mostly ones that also have a focus on [subtopic]", or something like that).

Yeah, I think vague and diplomatic is the way to go, especially with the more dangerous questions like "So where have you heard back from?" and "So what offers are you considering at this point?".

[kismetcapitan]

I can only speak for U Michigan from my sister as a source, but they use it solely for statistical purposes and to work on yield on acceptances. They do not use it in the admissions process at all.

[Lantern]

I admit that even if I wasn't bothered by the question, I was a little surprised. It seems like a personal question...like "So, are you seeing other people?"

This sums it up exactly! I was not asked on any of my applications, but most potential advisors I have spoken with have asked. I don't think it was true at the time, but when I replay the scene in my mind, I even picture the professor asking me in a sheepish way, as though they know they really shouldn't, but they just can't help asking to see how they measure up, and who might get you if they don't (like someone you're dating).

One professor even asked me who I would be working with at other schools. That much detail did make me uncomfortable, but mainly because I am applying for two different types of programs at different schools, and I didn't exactly want schools to know that I have two different interests. (I've discussed this here before - I would absolutely love to do either thing, but I'm afraid it makes me look like I don't know what I want to do since I have two very different interests.)

I agree that it is probably for statistics, but I think curiosity also plays a part. We all know that our individual fields are small communities, and a lot of professors know and work with each other at different schools. I think it just gives them an idea of how much work you've done to find your "fit" at other schools.

[katalytik]

This sums it up exactly! I was not asked on any of my applications, but most potential advisors I have spoken with have asked. I don't think it was true at the time, but when I replay the scene in my mind, I even picture the professor asking me in a sheepish way, as though they know they really shouldn't, but they just can't help asking to see how they measure up, and who might get you if they don't (like someone you're dating).

One professor even asked me who I would be working with at other schools. That much detail did make me uncomfortable, but mainly because I am applying for two different types of programs at different schools, and I didn't exactly want schools to know that I have two different interests. (I've discussed this here before - I would absolutely love to do either thing, but I'm afraid it makes me look like I don't know what I want to do since I have two very different interests.)

I agree that it is probably for statistics, but I think curiosity also plays a part. We all know that our individual fields are small communities, and a lot of professors know and work with each other at different schools. I think it just gives them an idea of how much work you've done to find your "fit" at other schools.

I was actually asked this question directly in my interview. I said I have applied to other schools, but I picked one thing that this school was the best at and then let them know that is why I would come to their school.

[EelAwaits]

I'd love advice on this. I'm only applying to one program, on the east coast (I'm currently in LA); if I don't get in, I have a job more or less lined up (I hope!). Now I've been told I made the first cut and invited to visit, which is exciting - but if they ask me this question, does it look bad if I answer that they're the only program I applied to? Should I try to deflect the question? I don't wnat to actually lie, eg, say something like above "a range of programs". Thoughts?

Edited February 2, 2010 by EelAwaits

[jordy]

I agree that it is probably for statistics, but I think curiosity also plays a part. We all know that our individual fields are small communities, and a lot of professors know and work with each other at different schools. I think it just gives them an idea of how much work you've done to find your "fit" at other schools.

Definitely. In some cases, when I've shared the name of the other institutions, the people I was talking with automatically knew (aka: assumed correctly) who I had applied to work with there. And some names were met with "Oh I know him really well!" followed by praise for their research and an occasional personal story. So yes, even though they are in competition for us, these are often their close colleagues and friends we're talking about. I agree that it probably demonstrates that an applicant took the application process seriously if she applied to work with people whose research is similar to that particular professor's program of research (not to say that having multiple areas of interest is a bad thing as long as there is some visible focus in your plan).

Though I'm sure that's a whole other story if they dislike some of your POIs...eek!

(Luckily, I've been told that my specific interest area of my subfield is particularly nice and friendly and I really hope that continues to prove true!)

[eucalyptus]

Definitely. In some cases, when I've shared the name of the other institutions, the people I was talking with automatically knew (aka: assumed correctly) who I had applied to work with there. And some names were met with "Oh I know him really well!" followed by praise for their research and an occasional personal story. So yes, even though they are in competition for us, these are often their close colleagues and friends we're talking about. I agree that it probably demonstrates that an applicant took the application process seriously if she applied to work with people whose research is similar to that particular professor's program of research (not to say that having multiple areas of interest is a bad thing as long as there is some visible focus in your plan).

Yeah this has happened to me as well. One of the profs correctly guessed who I would be working with at every other school I applied to (except 1, which was for a different project). He's friends with several of them, including his old PhD supervisor, so he gave me some details about them and kind of jokingly trash-talked them so I would be more inclined to go to his program. With one of the departments, he actually told me straight out not to go there - he didn't give me the exact reason, but he'd spoken to several students there who were trying to get out. While I know that his opinion is obviously biased, I really enjoyed hearing his take on the places I'm applying to. He also mentioned that my list of schools looked like I really knew what I wanted and I'd put some thought into where to apply. In that sense, I think asking about where else you're applying really does say something about how committed you are to your project and how much thought you've put into your applications.

[Lantern]

With one of the departments, he actually told me straight out not to go there - he didn't give me the exact reason, but he'd spoken to several students there who were trying to get out. While I know that his opinion is obviously biased, I really enjoyed hearing his take on the places I'm applying to.

A very similar thing happened to me, when asked specificially who I was hoping to work with at another school. The professor with whom I was having the conversation didn't tell me straight out not to go there, but he did say it's an extremely "cut-throat" place to do your master's - not the getting accepted part, the actual doing your research part. It made me uncomfortable to hear one professor kind of slamming another, and I think if the professor I was discussing it with had any kind of ego, I would have dismissed it immediately. Instead, it just kind of put me on guard for that other school.

Sometimes the reactions I get are almost comical. I had one professor ask where else I was applying, then put that school in a category below his school. By common knowledge of the programs at both schools, the one he put down is very much above the one he works at. I think it's only human nature, so you really have to take all professor's views and judgements with a grain of salt.

[jordy]

With one of the departments, he actually told me straight out not to go there - he didn't give me the exact reason, but he'd spoken to several students there who were trying to get out.

See, I think this is the kind of feedback that is OK from a trusted professor, like one of your LORs, but I think it reflects poorly on the POI to launch into something like this. Even if they have your best interests in mind, how are we supposed to know the difference between that and game-playing?

When speaking with one POI, after some positive discussion about where else I applied, she said something along the lines of "Well I think it sounds like you've made some really wise choices and... [hesitates for a half second, changes tone] well I won't say anything negative about any other departments. But I think you're headed toward good things!" (Again, this is paraphrased, and the hesitancy seemed genuine and not like an act).

I think it was classy that she backtracked even when it was clear she felt compelled to warn me. Even if it was somehow intended, I'd take it as a more respectful way to warn me to double check my schools with someone in the position to do so. In this particular case, I am sure I know which place she wanted to say something about because one of my LORs warned me about it (I have since decided not to apply there).

Edited February 2, 2010 by jordy

[eucalyptus]

See, I think this is the kind of feedback that is OK from a trusted professor, like one of your LORs, but I think it reflects poorly on the POI to launch into something like this. Even if they have your best interests in mind, how are we supposed to know the difference between that and game-playing?

I found it fairly easy to tell the difference between this genuine warning and the jokey trash-talking that he did with the other schools. With other places, he mentioned things he thought were worse than his department, but also good things about them, and it was very light-hearted. With this one program, he was very clear: don't go there. He didn't tell me the specifics because he didn't want to be spreading rumors, but I've heard other rumors from professors that I've known longer, and all the negative talk seems to center on one program. If it was any more ambiguous, I would agree with you.

[jordy]

I found it fairly easy to tell the difference between this genuine warning and the jokey trash-talking that he did with the other schools. With other places, he mentioned things he thought were worse than his department, but also good things about them, and it was very light-hearted. With this one program, he was very clear: don't go there. He didn't tell me the specifics because he didn't want to be spreading rumors, but I've heard other rumors from professors that I've known longer, and all the negative talk seems to center on one program. If it was any more ambiguous, I would agree with you.

Ah, that makes sense. I guess it's a case-by-case thing.

[Smaudge]

I felt weird about this too... especially when I was applying to MA programs and filled in the PhD programs I was also applying to. (I think I regret doing that now). At the time I was thinking that they might notice that all of my programs were in Boston, and think "She really wants to be in this region"? Hmm... maybe not.

[javagdss]

I'd love advice on this. I'm only applying to one program, on the east coast (I'm currently in LA); if I don't get in, I have a job more or less lined up (I hope!). Now I've been told I made the first cut and invited to visit, which is exciting - but if they ask me this question, does it look bad if I answer that they're the only program I applied to? Should I try to deflect the question? I don't wnat to actually lie, eg, say something like above "a range of programs". Thoughts?

Although I haven't been in this situation, I imagine there's no harm in saying "Actually, I only applied to this program because x, y, z." It shows you're serious about this specific program as much as the field, and if they make you an offer, you'll definitely accept it. I can't really imagine any drawbacks, but maybe other people can.