Honest thoughts on the GRE

[Andrea P]

Hello All,

I was scanning through some forums about the GRE, and it occurred to me that some of you have some pretty warped perspectives on what a good GRE score is. For example, one person had a quant score of 158 and a verbal score of 162 (which she/he thought was abysmally average). As someone who actually got an abysmally average score, I am terrified about my prospects on getting into graduate school. Naturally, I spoke to my academic advisor about all of this and he told me that a high GRE score won't necessarily help you but a low GRE score may work against you. Thoughts on this?

On a slightly unrelated note, do you (as students) think less of someone with a lower GRE score?

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Andrea P
decreasing word count

[periwinkle27]

I think the GRE only really gets you in the door. Some schools may have cutoffs in order to weed applications out, especially if they receive a large volume of applications. But, I definitely don't think you should count yourself out if you have an "average" or even lower score, as long as you have other things that demonstrate your commitment to psychology and research. I had a really horrible Psych GRE subject test score, and I was still chosen to interview at one of the schools I applied to where the Psych GRE was a requirement.

[ForeverJung]

23 minutes ago, Andrea P said:

Hello All,

I was scanning through some forums about the GRE, and it occurred to me that some of you have some pretty warped perspectives on what a good GRE score is. For example, one person had a quant score of 158 and a verbal score of 162 (which she/he thought was abysmally average). As someone who actually got an abysmally average score, I am terrified about my prospects on getting into graduate school. Naturally, I spoke to my academic advisor about all of this and he told me that a high GRE score won't necessarily help you but a low GRE score may work against you. Thoughts on this?

On a slightly unrelated note, do you (as students) think less of someone with a lower GRE score?

 

Thank you for this thread. I agree that the GRE is more of a get your face in the door type of an exam. I feel that once you get invited to interviews you can essentially through the GRE out the window. If they liked you enough to have you travel and take time for interviewing you, I imagine a GRE score is not going to hurt you. By definition, an "average" score in my opinion would be the 50th percentile. Though one could probably argue that the average scores for Psychology PhD admits tend to be higher due to the volume of folks in our field. 

[C is for Caps Locks]

I think the "warped" perspective is a product of the fact that many people here are trying to get into some very competitive programs/places. At that point anything that isn't AMAZING is potentially an issue (although that in no way means there aren't exceptions), but just if you are applying to a well-ranked program by virtue of the large number of applicants chances are you will need to be above average in as many ways as possible to get accepted.

Focusing on your specific question, I've pretty much heard/been advised the same. Not every program seems to care as much about GRE scores, but in general I'd say the more competitive the program the more of an issue a low GRE score may be (like periwinkle27 said, your GRE and GPA seem to be the first check you have to survive). I've never had a professor talk about GPA or GRE scores in interviews though, so it seems like once you make it to interviews it's more about you and your fit as a researcher than such things.

There are defiantly ways to compensate for a poor/average GRE score (such as addressing it in your SOP or having LORs explain that you're score doesn't reflect your talent). However, again, that still might not help at places that just throw out anyone that isn't hitting their cap (to me this mostly means that it's valuable to look into statistics of GRE scores when universities post them and at least have a sense of what the average for the university is). That to me also doesn't mean you can't apply to super competitive programs with a low GRE, but it might be harder (however, that's really the entire grad app process, anything that isn't amazing in your past is something you will have to deal with or address in your "narrative").

Finally, I certainly don't think less (or more) of anyone based on there GRE score, it's a standardized tests which entails a whole lot of caveats. I feel the same way about GPA, another student having a perfect or low GPA isn't really something I care much about (different schools are different, people have different lives, etc.).

Edited February 8, 2017 by C is for Caps Locks

[Clinapp2017]

It probably depends on the program. I, for example, got a 158Q, 163V, 5.5AW and I wish my Q was a little higher (especially because I love stats... just not random math like laws of triangles). That being said, I have been offered interviews at 7 of 10 programs I applied to this cycle as an undergrad (some of which are extremely competitive). This GRE score, while it wasn't my "best," was enough to probabaly get me in the door at which point my strong SOP, LORs, and pubs/presentations speak for themselves. 

 

My mentor, who is the DCT at my university, refuses to take on undergrads below a 3.5 GPR and similarly highly discourages any faculty member to take a grad student who has a worse GRE than the previous year's average. There is a lot of evidence about the GRE correlating to success in graduate work, so that's his logic.

 

I wouldn't say count yourself out with a truly average score, but I would seriously consider retaking the test if you think you can study harder and improve your score. 

[Dondante_MMJ]

I was a little worried about that as well. My scores were above average but nothing spectacular. From what I have heard and spoken to via the faculty at my current institution, the GRE scores are more of a cutoff and, as the other posters above me stated, a way to weed out applicants from 300 to 150 based on GPA and GRE. I have also heard from faculty at my current institution that in certain psychology programs they don't want someone with perfect scores, because to them that can sometimes mean a little too robotic, competitive, of an individual. I would shoot for at least above a 155 on Q and V and if not then retake it. If one has low scores I think it can be made up for my research experience, research fit, and strong LOR. I know some people can afford classes that cost over $1,000, I was not one of them. I found that for $9.99/month I could get an Amazon Kindle Unlimited pass and they had multiple books for practice on the GRE that were included for free with that subscription. I canceled it after a few months and i believe they helped me quite a bit on the test.

[almondicecream]

Mm I've had 3 umich social area professors tell me that 90th percentile (the actual score kind of confuses me sometimes so I just use percentiles) or above is usually about the point where you get diminished marginal returns from an increase in your score. i.e., if you have 90th percentile for both and someone else has 99th percentile for both, it kind of doesn't matter. However, if you have 80th percentile for both and someone else has 90th percentile, then they may give some preference to the other person.

Regarding it being a thing that gets you in the door rather than into the actual program, that's definitely true at umich and University of Southern California (I assume at others schools, too, but these are the only ones where professors directly told me this). Although, I know that umich's personality and social contexts area has admitted students that are around 50th percentile for GRE.

How much professors care about GRE is really a mixed bag. It's a proxy for g-factor/intelligence and has been correlated with success in grad school, but at the same time, there's a lot of pushback against it also because it is also a reflection of your level of privilege (e.g., white males from high SES families tend to do better, even controlling for  relevant variables). So you'll get some people who have a HARD, HARD line somewhere between 85th-95th percentile whereas others are more flexible. The same goes for GPA, although according to my profs here, some people see GPA as a proxy for work ethic whereas others see it as a proxy for both work ethic and intelligence.

[eternallyephemeral]

First of all, I don't think anyone, even the person who you're referring to, OP, actually thinks those scores are mathematically average.

However, when you're applying to insanely competitive places, like my SO and I did, then it's not about average as in 50th percentile, it's about the average of admitted applicants, which has been around about 80th percentile for the schools I applied to last year. The highest cutoff for schools I had was 85th percentile. It's not about comparing to just anyone, and I wouldn't get annoyed about it - for me, the admitted average is the only thing I cared about, so I was comparing to that.

I would never look down on someone who had a worse GRE, of course not. My SO did terribly on the GRE - like, really really really terrible on the math the first time. I didn't think any differently of him, and I have always thought he's brilliant and hardworking. He just had anxiety and struggled with the math portion.

My GRE scores definitely didn't help me, given that I only got into 2/8 schools, and they were pretty much in line with the rest of my application (the GPA, LORs, SOP, research experience, publication, etc). However, it's possible that my SO's GPA and GRE did not get him past the cutoff, given that both of them were below the recommended numbers. So in that way, they can work against you. I would agree with what your prof said, and of course their opinion is more important.

I tell everyone that GRE shouldn't be a value judgement about you as a person; many people get worked up about their GRE just like people who have jobs get worked up about how much they make compared to other people. Don't compare yourself to anyone, do your best, but realize that a higher score, if you can get it without extra turmoil and stress, is obviously better than a lower one. But so are better letters, more research experience, a better statement, etc. I just believe in doing your absolute best for grad school, but that could be a function of where I applied/was trying to get into.

[jeanetics17]

6 hours ago, Andrea P said:

Hello All,

I was scanning through some forums about the GRE, and it occurred to me that some of you have some pretty warped perspectives on what a good GRE score is. For example, one person had a quant score of 158 and a verbal score of 162 (which she/he thought was abysmally average). As someone who actually got an abysmally average score, I am terrified about my prospects on getting into graduate school. Naturally, I spoke to my academic advisor about all of this and he told me that a high GRE score won't necessarily help you but a low GRE score may work against you. Thoughts on this?

On a slightly unrelated note, do you (as students) think less of someone with a lower GRE score?

 

If you are science this is my opinion:

In my experience, GRE scores matter for some schools and don't matter for others. Even for some schools, you can have both a low GRE score and GPA and still be admitted. So some schools will use it as a screening tool and others will read your application regardless. Most importantly is to have high quality research experience and outstanding letters of recommendation. It's all about selling yourself and highlighting your "relevant" strengths. 

[PNIplz]

From what my mentor told me (who is the DCT at my undergraduate university), the GRE is more to weed people out at the beginning. At my school, above 50th percentile gets your application looked at. For example, I have gotten two interviews and offers at both and I was 155V and 157Q (even though my practice scores were in the 160s......still pissed about that). But it got me in the door. At the end of the say, if you have STELLAR GPA and GRE scores but not research experience to match that...it just looks confusing and not impressive. It's all about balance but it's important to show that you can stand out nationally and not just at the university you're at.

[Andrea P]

Thank you all for the input! I have spoken to several professors who think this practice is on its way out. In fact, there are a lot of top universities (for psychology programs, anyway) that do not have a minimum GRE cut-off. That does not mean that they will accept any GRE score but, at the very least, it guarantees that the application will be reviewed. In terms of research suggesting a correlation between GRE scores and graduate school performance, the reliability of those statistics decreases significantly after the first year.

[ellieotter]

I'll be the first to say my GRE scores were AWFUL, like below average awful. To the point where I cried in front of my mentor and said applying was pointless. But I worked my butt off for the past two years (doing research in a psych lab, presenting multiple projects at national/regional/local conferences, working in a clinical setting) to off set the awfulness of my scores. This is my first cycle to apply w/o a masters and I received three interviews out of 9 PhD programs I applied to. Did it keep me from getting more? Probably. But did it keep me out of the running? Absolutely not. Not one of the schools I've interviewed at even mentioned my GRE scores. My advice is to aim for the highest you can, but don't get discouraged. Your hard work will be noticed by the right people and the right schools!

[St0chastic]

I don't have much else to add that others haven't already said. As already stated, at most places the GRE is used as a way to winnow down the number of applications. Unless you are scoring perfect or near perfect it probably won't help too much, although a below average score will hurt your chances. 

You can definitely improve your GRE score with practice and study, perhaps as much as a standard deviation or more. There are tons of resources out there that can help you achieve a good-enough score. My favorites include Magoosh, Khan Academy, the Manhattan 5 lb Book of Practice Problems, and all of the official review books and practice tests produced by ETS. Good luck! 

Edited February 17, 2017 by St0chastic