critique my school list (applying next fall)

[lyellgeo]

Hi, so I will be applying this fall to programs. My main interest is in Deleuze though I have a fairly good analytic background as well.

Any suggestions of schools I should include or take off? I would prefer that each school have at least one person with AOS in French philosophy, though if they are strong elsewhere or seem like they could be a good fit then it's not needed.

My GPA is not amazing (3.6 cumulative, 3.9 major), but everything else should be strong enough. I'm trying to create a large enough range to avoid a complete shutout—at the same time it's hard to know whether some of the lower-end programs would really be worth it over a master's.

Anyway, just checking if there's anyone with similar interests that may have some thoughts.

This is the current (extremely tentative) list I'm working with:

Reach

University of Chicago 
Columbia 
Georgetown
Villanova
Stony Brook

Midrange

Penn State 
DePaul
Stony Brook
Boston College
UC Riverside 

Safer

Purdue
Loyola University Chicago 
University of Oregon
University of New Mexico

Masters

Toronto
Brock
Warwick
Georgia State
Kingston
LSU

Total: 20

 

Edited March 2, 2017 by lyellgeo

[Glasperlenspieler]

I'm only really familiar with three of the programs on your list (Chicago, Columbia, and UC Riverside), since those are ones I applied to. My one concern would be that those three programs seem to skew much more heavily toward German philosophy and particular areas of analytic philosophy than French philosophy. Sure, there are some faculty interests in French philosophy. Chicago is probably the strongest of the three for that with Raoul Moati and Arnold Davidson. Taylor Carman (Columbia) and Mark Wrathall (Riverside) both have an interest in Merleau-Ponty (although they're more Heidegger scholars), but it doesn't really look like there are any faculty or grad students at these programs with a serious interest in Deleuze. It really depends on what your other interests are and the sort of approach you take to these topics, but from the information you've provided, it's not clear to me that these three programs would be a great fit. I don't really know much about the other programs and French philosophy isn't an area of focus for me though, so I unfortunately can't provide you with much more insight than that.

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

If I was in your situation I'd do a funded MA program at McMaster University under Barry Allen and then apply to top PhDs 

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

Also I wouldn't consider UNM "a safe school." They only get around 50 applicants but have 2 funded spots, so ~4% acceptance rates

[Glasperlenspieler]

48 minutes ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

Also I wouldn't consider UNM "a safe school." They only get around 50 applicants but have 2 funded spots, so ~4% acceptance rates

To be honest, I'm not sure the idea of a safe school holds much water when it comes to PhD admissions because of how competitive the process has become.

[goldenstardust11]

1 hour ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

Also I wouldn't consider UNM "a safe school." They only get around 50 applicants but have 2 funded spots, so ~4% acceptance rates

Same with Oregon. I got offers to a couple of schools higher on your list and rejected from UNM / purgatory in oregon. I think it comes down to fit quite a bit more than I had realized. 

[maxhgns]

FWIW, funding is almost impossible to get in the UK, especially if you're not an EU national.

 

Have you considered Memphis and Guelph?

[lyellgeo]

14 minutes ago, maxhgns said:

FWIW, funding is almost impossible to get in the UK, especially if you're not an EU national.

 

Have you considered Memphis and Guelph?

I haven't considered these, I will look into this. 

2 hours ago, Glasperlenspieler said:

To be honest, I'm not sure the idea of a safe school holds much water when it comes to PhD admissions because of how competitive the process has become.

Yeah, the categories are primarily based on trying to decipher placement info, and "safe" schools should only be understood as 'slight safer' than the schools at the very top. But it is good to know that they only have 2 funded spots. 

 

4 hours ago, Glasperlenspieler said:

I'm only really familiar with three of the programs on your list (Chicago, Columbia, and UC Riverside), since those are ones I applied to. My one concern would be that those three programs seem to skew much more heavily toward German philosophy and particular areas of analytic philosophy than French philosophy. Sure, there are some faculty interests in French philosophy. Chicago is probably the strongest of the three for that with Raoul Moati and Arnold Davidson. Taylor Carman (Columbia) and Mark Wrathall (Riverside) both have an interest in Merleau-Ponty (although they're more Heidegger scholars), but it doesn't really look like there are any faculty or grad students at these programs with a serious interest in Deleuze. It really depends on what your other interests are and the sort of approach you take to these topics, but from the information you've provided, it's not clear to me that these three programs would be a great fit. I don't really know much about the other programs and French philosophy isn't an area of focus for me though, so I unfortunately can't provide you with much more insight than that.

I have secondary interests in Heidegger, Hegel, and Schelling on the German side of things, but I'm more (comparatively) familiar in the French side. So I will definitely keep that in mind, thanks.

[lyellgeo]

3 hours ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

If I was in your situation I'd do a funded MA program at McMaster University under Barry Allen and then apply to top PhDs 

Thanks! I will definitely add this to the list. 

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

44 minutes ago, lyellgeo said:

Thanks! I will definitely add this to the list. 

He would be a really brilliant supervisor for your project, and he placed recent students of his at Stanford, Toronto, Penn State, and so on, so you'd be in good hands. 

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

3 hours ago, Glasperlenspieler said:

To be honest, I'm not sure the idea of a safe school holds much water when it comes to PhD admissions because of how competitive the process has become.

Yeah, I'm just using the lingo. I don't think "safe schools" (meaning schools to which you will almost certainly be accepted) exist. 

[sleepingsusurrus]

Like @Glasperlenspieler said, DePaul is also one of those schools with lots of people interested in French philosophy, but they mostly focus on Derrida and Foucault. If you like the kind of topics they're covering in French Philosophy, then you could make the argument in your SOP that your work on Derrida would be under the same kind of categories, make you a better fit. 

[realmofends]

Sounds great, it would be fantastic to see more analytic involvement with Deleuze's work...

Now at the risk of being off-topic... if your main interest is Deleuze, I should think you would profit most from studying in France or Belgium (e.g. Leuven, esp. if you are also interested in Heidegger, Hegel, and Schelling). Am I missing something?

[lyellgeo]

53 minutes ago, realmofends said:

Sounds great, it would be fantastic to see more analytic involvement with Deleuze's work...

Now at the risk of being off-topic... if your main interest is Deleuze, I should think you would profit most from studying in France or Belgium (e.g. Leuven, esp. if you are also interested in Heidegger, Hegel, and Schelling). Am I missing something?

True, but I'm not fluent in French and am not sure what English-speaking options there would be. Also I'm not sure if there would be funding.  Any suggestions on where to look or how to find options? 

[hector549]

16 minutes ago, lyellgeo said:

True, but I'm not fluent in French and am not sure what English-speaking options there would be. Also I'm not sure if there would be funding.  Any suggestions on where to look or how to find options? 

KU Leuven's one-year MA program is taught in English, and is very inexpensive, even for non-EU citizens. Leuven is also very well regarded. I was going to apply myself, even though my background is in the analytic tradition. There is one drawback: they don't participate in the US federal loan program, so in order to get a student visa and pay the small tuition, you'll need to take out a private loan or have enough savings to show that you can support yourself for a year in Belgium.

Edited March 2, 2017 by hector549

[Tecumseh Valley]

Just to add to the chorus of voices saying that safe schools don't exist in PhD admissions, I would say not to infer anything about the admissions process from a school's place in rankings. Oregon received 177 applications this year for 7 funded spots. 

[lyellgeo]

21 minutes ago, hector549 said:

KU Leuven's one-year MA program is taught in English, and is very inexpensive, even for non-EU citizens. Leuven is also very well regarded. I was going to apply myself, even though my background is in the analytic tradition. There is one drawback: they don't participate in the US federal loan program, so in order to get a student visa and pay the small tuition, you'll need to take out a private loan or have enough savings to show that you can support yourself for a year in Belgium.

Thanks, this is super helpful information!

[lyellgeo]

1 hour ago, sleepingsusurrus said:

Like @Glasperlenspieler said, DePaul is also one of those schools with lots of people interested in French philosophy, but they mostly focus on Derrida and Foucault. If you like the kind of topics they're covering in French Philosophy, then you could make the argument in your SOP that your work on Derrida would be under the same kind of categories, make you a better fit. 

There is definitely some overlap, so this is good advice, thanks. 
 

[realmofends]

11 hours ago, hector549 said:

KU Leuven's one-year MA program is taught in English, and is very inexpensive, even for non-EU citizens. Leuven is also very well regarded. I was going to apply myself, even though my background is in the analytic tradition. There is one drawback: they don't participate in the US federal loan program, so in order to get a student visa and pay the small tuition, you'll need to take out a private loan or have enough savings to show that you can support yourself for a year in Belgium.

Excellent program and a lot of people working on the things you seem to be interested in (I did my undergrad there). There is a one-year and a two-year (research) MA. The research MA prepares you for doctoral work (many of its graduates choose to stay at Leuven). Check out the funding opportunities, I think they are pretty limited but there should be at least a chance of getting some $$.

 

10 hours ago, lyellgeo said:

Thanks, this is super helpful information!

You might also want to have a look at Lille: https://www.univ-lille3.fr/ufr-humanites/philosophie/formations/contemporary-philosophy/

[lyellgeo]

50 minutes ago, realmofends said:

Excellent program and a lot of people working on the things you seem to be interested in (I did my undergrad there). There is a one-year and a two-year (research) MA. The research MA prepares you for doctoral work (many of its graduates choose to stay at Leuven). Check out the funding opportunities, I think they are pretty limited but there should be at least a chance of getting some $$.

 

You might also want to have a look at Lille: https://www.univ-lille3.fr/ufr-humanites/philosophie/formations/contemporary-philosophy/

This looks really great. I think I would definitely be interested in applying, but it states the following about admissions:

Academic prerequisites
Normally, students will be expected to hold a BA in Philosophy and to have completed the first year of a MA program (60 ECTS). Students who do not have a major in Philosophy or have validated less than 60 ECTS in a MA program may be accepted on the condition that they take a certain number of supplementary courses (in French) in our BA and MA programs.


I don't have a year in a MA program, yet, and I wouldn't be fluent in French enough to take supplementary courses. I may email them to see if this is a hard requirement, though, and it could also be possible to apply after a year at another MA program (such as Leuven).


 

[Schopenhauerfanboy]

I should also add that, unless you are doing Philosophy East-West type stuff, then Brock would not be the best choice. Would likely marginalize you from getting into highly regarded PhD programs too.. 

[modalities]

Both Fordham and Memphis have Derrida scholars. Not sure about Deleuze but those are at least two U.S. programs open to French philosophy. 

Have you considered Canadian schools? McGill has Prof. Alia Al-Saji who specializes in French philosophy, and Concordia University is also very open to French philosophy (moreso Derrida & French feminism though there's one adjunct prof. specializing in French Philosophy & Deleuze).

Kingston University in London would be an obvious choice but funding is also very limited. 

Also be warned that even though Toronto has maybe ~3 (?) scholars with AOS in French philosophy the courses for the 1 year MA program vary each year and this past year no continental courses have been offered. Also there's no thesis option so you wouldn't be able to choose a continental based supervisor.

Edited March 5, 2017 by postmodernturn

[Dysexlia]

5 hours ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

I should also add that, unless you are doing Philosophy East-West type stuff, then Brock would not be the best choice. Would likely marginalize you from getting into highly regarded PhD programs too.. 

I also thought of Brock! Do you think that it would really be a poor choice to do anything other than comparative philosophy? I totally understand that their department is predominantly comparative, but they do have a few very strong faculty members who solely do continental (and specifically French, i.e., Rajiv Kaushik, and Murray Miles) philosophy, it seems.

[Coconuts&Chloroform]

I think you're being a bit too worried about this. Your overall and major GPAs are similar to mine, and I applied to only 5 programs this year, with decent results. Of course, I may have gotten lucky, and other factors like the strength of your GRE scores and recommendations are relevant, but 20 schools seems a bit much - that's a lot of money to spend on fees and test scores.

Try this exercise - it's a tough one, but useful - for every school on your list, ask yourself: if you were rejected from all schools but that one, would you go there? If it were your last chance at pursuing a future in philosophy, and there were no other options left, would you take the offer? Think very seriously about this: I don't want to paint too bleak a picture here, but given how competitive the job market for philosophers is these days, going to a low-ranked graduate program is quite likely to be a waste of your time. Would that program be worth your time? If so, keep it on the list. If not, drop it.

[lyellgeo]

8 hours ago, Schopenhauerfanboy said:

I should also add that, unless you are doing Philosophy East-West type stuff, then Brock would not be the best choice. Would likely marginalize you from getting into highly regarded PhD programs too.. 

This is helpful, as I basically have no sense at all of Canadian school rankings (or, more importantly, quality). Are there any Canadian MA programs that you would recommend looking at, besides McMaster and McGill?

 

2 hours ago, Coconuts&Chloroform said:

I think you're being a bit too worried about this. Your overall and major GPAs are similar to mine, and I applied to only 5 programs this year, with decent results. Of course, I may have gotten lucky, and other factors like the strength of your GRE scores and recommendations are relevant, but 20 schools seems a bit much - that's a lot of money to spend on fees and test scores.

Try this exercise - it's a tough one, but useful - for every school on your list, ask yourself: if you were rejected from all schools but that one, would you go there? If it were your last chance at pursuing a future in philosophy, and there were no other options left, would you take the offer? Think very seriously about this: I don't want to paint too bleak a picture here, but given how competitive the job market for philosophers is these days, going to a low-ranked graduate program is quite likely to be a waste of your time. Would that program be worth your time? If so, keep it on the list. If not, drop it.

Yeah, thank you for the advice. The idea is that I can start broad and then narrow down the list to somewhere between 12-18 programs (including MAs). Already, for example, based on more investigation, a few schools even at the top will likely be taken off due to lack of fit, including, for example, UCR, Columbia, and Georgetown. And I've also removed Kingston and Warwick for now, just because of lack of funding.

In terms of the question "if you were rejected form all schools but that one, would you go there?", the answer is 'yes' to nearly all of them—I don't have any specific career plans after graduating, and I would be happy to attend a (funded) grad program even if it was a "waste" or never turned into a career. That said, given the choice between a funded or inexpensive (e.g. Leuven) high quality MA and a lower-end/unranked PhD, I think I would prefer the MA.

The other factor to consider is fit, which is pretty difficult to determine. In terms of topics or 'continental' focus, for example, Oregon is a good "fit," though when I look at their grad courses online, most of the subjects (or rather, the way in which the subjects are discussed) don't seem to fit what I am interested in (not to take anything away from that program). On the other hand, a place like UCR seems to fit the way I like philosophy to be done, but doesn't have as great of a fit in the sense that no one there is especially interested in French philosophy.  

Overall, aside from a few programs that fit both (e.g. Chicago), the best option so far seems to be Canadian or European MA programs, which would likely open up more options and give me a stronger basis to work from.  

Edited March 6, 2017 by lyellgeo