Area Studies

[leebee]

Hi everyone! I'm hoping to apply to an MA program this fall, and I've read a lot on this board about how a post graduate degree in area studies won't help you if your end goal is a History PhD and employment as a history professor. I'm interested in women's history and LGBT history, and so I was wondering how a program like NYU's History's MA in the history of women and gender fits into this advice. I'm also looking at other programs that offer collaborative MAs with WGSS departments (UToronto). Would these be perceived as more area studies-ish by admissions committees when I'm applying for my PhD in history?

Thanks!

Edited April 12, 2017 by leebee

[Concordia]

Pivoting to history PhDs from related disciplines doesn't seem to be ridiculously uncommon.

Also, bear in mind that I'm a little cranky and cynical this morning, and you should definitely try to hear from someone on the other side of the PhD barrier.  

BUT...

do you really want to study at a place that's going to be flipped out by that sort of credential?  

[OHSP]

On 12/04/2017 at 0:47 PM, leebee said:

Hi everyone! I'm hoping to apply to an MA program this fall, and I've read a lot on this board about how a post graduate degree in area studies won't help you if your end goal is a History PhD and employment as a history professor. I'm interested in women's history and LGBT history, and so I was wondering how a program like NYU's History's MA in the history of women and gender fits into this advice. I'm also looking at other programs that offer collaborative MAs with WGSS departments (UToronto). Would these be perceived as more area studies-ish by admissions committees when I'm applying for my PhD in history?

Thanks!

If you can afford to do an MA (NYU's is unfunded), then I'd recommend it, and if you're certain that you're interested in gender and LGBT history then the women and gender history MA at NYU is likely to set you up really well (Linda Gordon's still around, Michele Mitchell is there, and the faculty is full of amazing women and feminists). But you don't need a specifically gender-focused MA to set yourself up for LGBT and gender history PhDs. I'm not entirely sure why you think women's history and gender/sexuality studies would be perceived as "area studies"... ? Women and LGBT people are historical actors; it's not beyond the realm of historical studies to focus on LGBT experiences... 

Edited April 13, 2017 by OHSP

[qkhitai]

Women and gender isn't area studies. Area studies is a blanket term for different fields pertaining to geographic areas, like the Middle East, America, Asia and so on. Gender studies is, well, gender studies, but its a similar interdisciplinary term that covers different fields pertaining to gender. There aren't usually problems transferring out of area studies and into more specific fields - I'm currently entertaining the idea of going into History from East Asian/Chinese Studies for my own PhD. You usually have to provide some evidence that you are competent in the field you are transferring into, but because area studies (and presumably gender studies) is naturally interdisciplinary, you usually have options to pursue your chosen field within the overall umbrella of the program. For example, in my UG area studies degree (and indeed in my forthcoming MA), I specialised in history and literature, as opposed to say, politics or anthropology or business. So from my own understanding and from talking to professors in specific fields such as history, there shouldn't really be in any obstacles. May of course depend on who you apply to work with and the program in question. 

[Baloch]

Consider Rutgers too.

[Concordia]

10 hours ago, qkhitai said:

Women and gender isn't area studies.  

Or, at least, it covers a fairly small area.  

[nevermind]

On 4/11/2017 at 7:47 PM, leebee said:

Hi everyone! I'm hoping to apply to an MA program this fall, and I've read a lot on this board about how a post graduate degree in area studies won't help you if your end goal is a History PhD and employment as a history professor.

2

The other responses are fantastic, but I'll add my two cents too. I have a lot of friends who are Near Eastern Studies and they're trying to position themselves for a job in a history department, but aren't grounded in the "right" methodology (or any directed methodology at all)...it's an uphill battle. I don't think WGS is like that and I don't see that getting the MA you're talking about being a "hindrance" to your PhD ambitions (in fact, it will likely help). 

For women and gender studies, I think it would really easy to do integrated within a history program (and the program I'm in even offers a WGS certificate if candidates are interested). I don't think you'd run into the same problems (as those in area studies) if you did history with a WGS certificate (or WGS as a minor field or something like this), and on the job market, you'd likely be marketable to both history departments and more interdisciplinary gender studies depts. 

[leebee]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I was worried because I've gotten some dismissive responses from people in my department who made it sound like I wouldn't be perceived as a "pure" historian when I mention I'm interested in the WGSS side of things so your perspective really helps a lot! 

3 hours ago, Concordia said:

Or, at least, it covers a fairly small area.  

5 hours ago, Baloch said:

Consider Rutgers too.

Will do, thank you!

2 hours ago, nevermind said:

The other responses are fantastic, but I'll add my two cents too. I have a lot of friends who are Near Eastern Studies and they're trying to position themselves for a job in a history department, but aren't grounded in the "right" methodology (or any directed methodology at all)...it's an uphill battle. I don't think WGS is like that and I don't see that getting the MA you're talking about being a "hindrance" to your PhD ambitions (in fact, it will likely help). 

For women and gender studies, I think it would really easy to do integrated within a history program (and the program I'm in even offers a WGS certificate if candidates are interested). I don't think you'd run into the same problems (as those in area studies) if you did history with a WGS certificate (or WGS as a minor field or something like this), and on the job market, you'd likely be marketable to both history departments and more interdisciplinary gender studies depts. 

Ahhhh this is exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thank you!!

14 hours ago, qkhitai said:

Women and gender isn't area studies. Area studies is a blanket term for different fields pertaining to geographic areas, like the Middle East, America, Asia and so on. Gender studies is, well, gender studies, but its a similar interdisciplinary term that covers different fields pertaining to gender. There aren't usually problems transferring out of area studies and into more specific fields - I'm currently entertaining the idea of going into History from East Asian/Chinese Studies for my own PhD. You usually have to provide some evidence that you are competent in the field you are transferring into, but because area studies (and presumably gender studies) is naturally interdisciplinary, you usually have options to pursue your chosen field within the overall umbrella of the program. For example, in my UG area studies degree (and indeed in my forthcoming MA), I specialised in history and literature, as opposed to say, politics or anthropology or business. So from my own understanding and from talking to professors in specific fields such as history, there shouldn't really be in any obstacles. May of course depend on who you apply to work with and the program in question. 

Super helpful, thank you! I used the term area studies bc that's what the professor who was advising against it called it and I didn't really know how else to put it. I super super appreciate your response, thank you. I was mostly concerned I wouldn't be perceived as being as "serious" a student of history by doing the WGSS route.

21 hours ago, OHSP said:

If you can afford to do an MA (NYU's is unfunded), then I'd recommend it, and if you're certain that you're interested in gender and LGBT history then the women and gender history MA at NYU is likely to set you up really well (Linda Gordon's still around, Michele Mitchell is there, and the faculty is full of amazing women and feminists). But you don't need a specifically gender-focused MA to set yourself up for LGBT and gender history PhDs. I'm not entirely sure why you think women's history and gender/sexuality studies would be perceived as "area studies"... ? Women and LGBT people are historical actors; it's not beyond the realm of historical studies to focus on LGBT experiences... 

Thank you for the advice! NYU does seem like a great fit, but I'm still trying to figure out how people make unfunded MAs work. Ahhh!!!! My perception came from a kind of grumpy professor that I probably should've ignored honestly, but I was caught up in admission anxiety and took it to heart. Thank you!

 

On 4/12/2017 at 8:11 AM, Concordia said:

Pivoting to history PhDs from related disciplines doesn't seem to be ridiculously uncommon.

Also, bear in mind that I'm a little cranky and cynical this morning, and you should definitely try to hear from someone on the other side of the PhD barrier.  

BUT...

do you really want to study at a place that's going to be flipped out by that sort of credential?  

I was initially really worried about funding and getting into places, but you're definitely right. I wouldn't be happy or comfortable at a place that wasn't excited about those topics!

[luz.colorada]

14 hours ago, leebee said:

Thanks for the advice everyone! I was worried because I've gotten some dismissive responses from people in my department who made it sound like I wouldn't be perceived as a "pure" historian when I mention I'm interested in the WGSS side of things so your perspective really helps a lot! 

This has already been mentioned above, but I think it's important to remember that studying the history of women and gender is still studying history. I would caution you against thinking that women (and transgender and GNC people) are not a part of "pure" history. The MA at NYU is a history degree, therefore you will be studying history that focuses on women and gender. 

[OHSP]

18 hours ago, leebee said:

Thanks for the advice everyone! I was worried because I've gotten some dismissive responses from people in my department who made it sound like I wouldn't be perceived as a "pure" historian when I mention I'm interested in the WGSS side of things so your perspective really helps a lot! 

Ugh. I mean, they are actually somewhat correct to the extent that you will encounter people who think gender and sexuality has no place in "real" historical studies, but basically that's just something to get used to (and to get used to arguing against). Job market-wise it can help to have a foot outside of traditional history, just because it means that you might be able to apply for jobs in WGSS departments etc etc.