Anyone else thinking of an MBA vs. MPP?

[Hayek]

I've been out of college for around 8 years and currently work at one of the big federal contractors (think Deloitte, KPMG, E&Y). Before that I was in an economic analyst role. I applied and was accepted to a top 15-20 ranked MBA program last year, but decided not to go for a few different personal/financial reasons.

Working as an economist at the Treasury, the markets group at the NY Fed, a development consulting firm like Dalberg, or at the IMF/IFC are all much more interesting to me than working in consulting or banking. So, I'm considering applying to some international relations (e.g. SAIS) programs along with some re-applications to MBA programs.

Does anyone  know:

1. What sort of funding the international relations programs give their students? The average salaries seem to be absurdly low (50-70k) given that the sticker price is near-MBA level, and the average salaries at the top 30 or so MBA programs is all in the 6 figures.

2. If it would be easier for someone in my position (good private sector/"MBA quality" work experience, 700 GMAT) to get scholarship money from a place like SAIS?

If money was no object I think I'd rather go to SAIS or SFS, but the debt scares me. At least MBA programs are lower risk (almost guaranteed a 6 figure salary). Has anyone else thought about this tradeoff?

For a while it seemed to me that an MBA from a top 15-20 school could do anything that someone from SAIS could do (in terms of recruiting and job access) plus a lot more. But if I knew that I could get good scholarship money from a place like SAIS, I'd be much more comfortable applying and going.

[Nonprofitguy]

2 hours ago, Hayek said:

For a while it seemed to me that an MBA from a top 15-20 school could do anything that someone from SAIS could do (in terms of recruiting and job access) plus a lot more. But if I knew that I could get good scholarship money from a place like SAIS, I'd be much more comfortable applying and going.

I don't really understand this part. If as you say, an MBA can get you the same opportunities (if not more) as an MPP, why are you set on SAIS? 

Or why not aim for a dual degree with the MBA? I know Wharton & Tuck both have a dual degree program with SAIS (MBA/MA).

[Hayek]

2 hours ago, Nonprofitguy said:

I don't really understand this part. If as you say, an MBA can get you the same opportunities (if not more) as an MPP, why are you set on SAIS? 

Or why not aim for a dual degree with the MBA? I know Wharton & Tuck both have a dual degree program with SAIS (MBA/MA).

I would consider applying for an MPP program or two in lieu of another MBA app if I thought that I would be more likely to get grants/scholarships from an MPP program. MBA programs are generally stingy with aid. My understanding is that places like SAIS have better funding. SAIS at 100k total cost (debt + savings) seems like it would probably be better than 200k from, say, Cornell's business school.

I think that the joint degree is an awesome idea but even with scholarship money that extra year would probably cost another 100k+ between tuition, living expenses, and opportunity cost (which is getting higher as I progress in my career). If I had a trust fund or money was no object then sure, a 3 year joint degree would be great. But, alas.

[Concordia]

Yale's MBA has always been more interdisciplinary/public sector-friendly than most.  And taking courses at the rest of the university (IR, law, econ, etc.)  is less hard than at some other schools, which deliberately make it difficult.

[Hayek]

9 minutes ago, Concordia said:

Yale's MBA has always been more interdisciplinary/public sector-friendly than most.  And taking courses at the rest of the university (IR, law, econ, etc.)  is less hard than at some other schools, which deliberately make it difficult.

Yale is #1 on my list for this reason. Got dinged last time I applied there though I think I'll have a better story this time around. Love New Haven too.

[went_away]

Go to Harvard Kennedy or Yale Jackson. (SAIS is borderline, but I'd counsel against it.) Otherwise, just get an MBA if you're competitive for a top 30 program. You are 100% correct - average starting salaries are awful coming out of most international affairs programs and are completely out of line with tuition prices. The current political environment doesn't really bode well for international affairs grads either (budget cuts, federal hiring freeze). 

[kb6]

While I don't think the academic merits of the MBA are any greater than an MA/MPA/MPP, the job market still assigns a much higher value to the MBA, especially when it comes to anything with the word "finance" in it. The people with real career trajectory at the IMF/World Bank etc. tend to have PhDs in economics. In the private sector, if a policy/IR graduate can even get a job in finance, they will often come in at a much lower salary band than MBAs doing the exact same job (which a few of my SAIS friends have complained bitterly about). 

 

 

[ExponentialDecay]

14 hours ago, kb6 said:

While I don't think the academic merits of the MBA are any greater than an MA/MPA/MPP, the job market still assigns a much higher value to the MBA, especially when it comes to anything with the word "finance" in it. The people with real career trajectory at the IMF/World Bank etc. tend to have PhDs in economics. In the private sector, if a policy/IR graduate can even get a job in finance, they will often come in at a much lower salary band than MBAs doing the exact same job (which a few of my SAIS friends have complained bitterly about). 

That's true about the IMF, but the WB actually hires a diverse cohort of technical specialists, since their program foci are a lot more varied compared to the IMF. Lots of people with career trajectory come in with just the master's, sometimes MPA, even among recent hires.

That said, I think OP is being misled by the words "monetary" and "finance". Unless they want to work on the trading floor or in risk management, the work at either of those organizations has very little to do with the traditional finance industry.

Edited April 16, 2017 by ExponentialDecay

[kb6]

5 hours ago, ExponentialDecay said:

That's true about the IMF, but the WB actually hires a diverse cohort of technical specialists, since their program foci are a lot more varied compared to the IMF. Lots of people with career trajectory come in with just the master's, sometimes MPA, even among recent hires.

That said, I think OP is being misled by the words "monetary" and "finance". Unless they want to work on the trading floor or in risk management, the work at either of those organizations has very little to do with the traditional finance industry.

Sure, but most of my WB friends are stuck in a cycle of STCs (short-term contracts for the unacquainted). I do have one friend who has managed to get a staff position less than two years in, but she has a very specific and in-demand skill-set. 

[ExponentialDecay]

38 minutes ago, kb6 said:

Sure, but most of my WB friends are stuck in a cycle of STCs (short-term contracts for the unacquainted). I do have one friend who has managed to get a staff position less than two years in, but she has a very specific and in-demand skill-set. 

Most people working for the WBG are stuck as STCs. I'm legit not sure how much the PhD helps.

[datik]

On 16/4/2017 at 5:37 PM, kb6 said:

Sure, but most of my WB friends are stuck in a cycle of STCs (short-term contracts for the unacquainted). I do have one friend who has managed to get a staff position less than two years in, but she has a very specific and in-demand skill-set. 

would you mind elaborating on her profile and skill-set?

[kb6]

5 hours ago, datik said:

would you mind elaborating on her profile and skill-set?

Very quanty undergrad and native-level fluency in three in-demand languages. 

ETA: also the kind of person who doesn't mine occasionally staying at the office until 11 p.m. to help the boss

Edited April 18, 2017 by kb6

[Holiday]

I come from a finance background and I got into SAIS with a 12k/year scholarship. I also got into the other main IR programs and got a significant scholarship from one of them, zilch from the other two. I decided not to pursue an MBA because it didn't really fit my academic interests, and it was the cheaper option. However, many of the international development jobs I want prefer to hire MBAs.

The sad truth is that IR schools are a bad investment for almost everyone. Paying 6 figures and not working for two years to graduate with a $50-80k salary is very hard to justify. 

I am doing this because I want to pivot to a career that I find rewarding and to learn about the subjects I find interesting. That to me is worth the investment, but I can also afford to pay for school without taking on debt, which was a big part of my decision. 

 

 

[Damis]

I will be pursuing a joint MBA/MPA degree. I need skill sets from both areas to be more effective moving forward in my career, so the joint option therefore makes the most sense to me. Interestingly, I have a lot of folks who received IR or Policy degrees, and work in a variety of fields, who are very interested in going back to school to pursue a MBA of some sort. I figure I might as well try and get both out of the way now.

[kb6]

On 4/20/2017 at 0:38 PM, Damis said:

I will be pursuing a joint MBA/MPA degree. I need skill sets from both areas to be more effective moving forward in my career, so the joint option therefore makes the most sense to me. Interestingly, I have a lot of folks who received IR or Policy degrees, and work in a variety of fields, who are very interested in going back to school to pursue a MBA of some sort. I figure I might as well try and get both out of the way now.

I think this is a great choice - I sort of wish I had done the dual degree. Without exception, my friends who did the joint MA/MBA at SAIS have the highest salaries, usually for pretty interesting rolls.

Unfortunately, there are very few jobs where an MPA/MA-IR/MPP is preferred over an MBA, but many jobs where the MBA is preferred over an MPA/MA-IR/MPP.

[3dender]

I can't help but cringe when I read a comment that clearly de-prioritizes interesting work in relation to salary.  

Just because it seems at risk of being overlooked (at least in this thread), I'd like to point out that there are, in fact, important factors in determining your career path other than the size of your salary.  Yes, debt should still be a consideration.  So should your interest in your work, as well as the inherent value of such work to the world at large.

 

[kb6]

6 minutes ago, 3dender said:

I can't help but cringe when I read a comment that clearly de-prioritizes interesting work in relation to salary.  

Just because it seems at risk of being overlooked (at least in this thread), I'd like to point out that there are, in fact, important factors in determining your career path other than the size of your salary.  Yes, debt should still be a consideration.  So should your interest in your work, as well as the inherent value of such work to the world at large.

 

Of course. I think most people going for MPP/IR degrees are looking to find meaning and impact in their work. But some do so at their long-term financial peril. 

Take it from someone who's on the other side. Most of my SAIS friends who have debt routinely talk about the financial stress they're under. In many cases, that debt has prevented them from taking the exact kind of jobs that they supposedly got the degree for (i.e. non-profit and/or public service-type jobs). It's really easy to think you'll just "figure it out" after graduation, but if you take out 120k in loans for a degree with an average income of 65k/yr or so in the private sector, any way out besides marrying rich or winning the lottery is going to be pretty painful. 

Let me put it another way re: the joint-MBA discussion. Would you rather work for a development consulting firm and earn $45-50k/yr while paying down grad school debt, or do development work for a bigger consulting firm in their federal or government relations practices, earning $100k+ for the exact same work? Development consulting firms like Ashoka and Chemonics (which pay $45-55k starting salaries) are for-profit businesses, by the way. That's where most MA-only SAIS grads go to work, while those with dual degrees transition seamlessly into bigger consultancies with development arms.  

[Nonprofitguy]

19 minutes ago, 3dender said:

I can't help but cringe when I read a comment that clearly de-prioritizes interesting work in relation to salary.  

Just because it seems at risk of being overlooked (at least in this thread), I'd like to point out that there are, in fact, important factors in determining your career path other than the size of your salary.  Yes, debt should still be a consideration.  So should your interest in your work, as well as the inherent value of such work to the world at large.

 

You're absolutely right. But I think the point is there's no job/career (or least one that comes to my mind) that will require MPP/MPA over MBA. Whereas there are many jobs/careers that will require you to have an MBA, resulting in a higher ROI.

For example, the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation's internship program (http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Jobs/Internship-Program-FAQ) "primarily targets MBA, MPH and DrPH students" and you can see the list of schools they recruit from. The majority of those schools are MBA programs. 

But if for some reason, you decide to pivot to let's say consulting (McKinsey, Bain, BCG, etc.), you'll also notice that the majority of their recruiting for consultant roles are targeted from MBA programs - and it's not like they shy away from that. Same with nonprofit consulting firms like Bridgespan.

[ivnat]

super late this on this post but curious - @Hayek what did you land up doing? mba or mpp? do you like it?