PoliSci 2007-2008 Cycle

[crazypoligirl]

Just got a letter telling me I am in at Boston University... but no funding

[sundaymonday]

Just got a letter telling me I am in at Boston University... but no funding

Are there people out there who actually accept offers to go through an entire PhD program with no funding? I don't get it.

[crazypoligirl]

Are there people out there who actually accept offers to go through an entire PhD program with no funding? I don't get it.

My sentiment exactly. I thought "that's nice" and kept it moving. There is NO WAY I would EVER do that, particularly because it's in Boston!!! Seriously, one of the most expensive cities in America!

[polisciphd]

I'd like to contribute to the above discussion about qualifications and name of school. When I applied to college as a high school senior, I had no idea what I wanted to do or where I wanted to be. I had tremendous qualifications, 34 on the ACT, 3.87 gpa, national merit semifinalist. I applied to Columbia, MIT, Georgia Tech, and because it was closer to home and I had relatives who went there and loved it, Alabama. I was accepted to Columbia and Georgia Tech, as well as Bama. When my parents told me that they were in no position to help me financially, and my scholarships and loans wouldn't cover the cost of living in either Atlanta or New York, I enrolled at Bama. For three years I studied a subject that I hated, just because I thought it would be easy to get a job after (not poly sci), and did terribly. Had a miserably low gpa. It took me that long to figure out that I should pursue something that actually interested me, and switched majors. For the next 5 years of school, including my masters degree from a top 10 IR school, I had two b's and the rest A's.

I was able to increase my gpa to above a 3.0 for my undergraduate, but the damage had been done. Even though I kicked butt in my eventual major, my poor performance in a subject that has absolutely no relevance to my eventual decision to pursue a phd in poly sci has made it damn near impossible for me to get accepted at a top 10 school. Now, i feel fortunate that UIUC has looked past that stupid number, but there is a hefty bias in my opinion, not only against undergrad names, but also against people who take a while to figure out what they want to do when they grow up.

Forgive me if I didn't take that offer of admission to Columbia, immediately enroll in poly sci and multiple different languages, travel abroad extensively, have great internships and research projects with the giants in my field, study for two years for the gre, and have nobel laureates edit my SOP, I am just not that lucky...

[Canadianpolsci]

Listening to complex tales of undergrad odysseys good and bad re-enforces what I said: that rankings of schools, reputation, etc., is perhaps somewhat fair as criterion of judgment of a student, but there are always exceptions.

Again, still: the job market doesn't like asterisks. That's the harsh truth. But I think people in programs that are lower ranked or what have you are better off knowing this and internalizing it. Fight on knowing the stakes! And remember: worst case, you can go to law school. No tragedy.

[polisciphd]

Listening to complex tales of undergrad odysseys good and bad re-enforces what I said: that rankings of schools, reputation, etc., is perhaps somewhat fair as criterion of judgment of a student, but there are always exceptions.

Again, still: the job market doesn't like asterisks. That's the harsh truth. But I think people in programs that are lower ranked or what have you are better off knowing this and internalizing it. Fight on knowing the stakes! And remember: worst case, you can go to law school. No tragedy.

I think that you are overlooking a rather important point. For a lot of people, I would say an overwhelming majority, a good placement record is that a school is able to place most of their students in tt jobs in a year or two after graduation. If a school has a 95-100% employment rate, that is a damn good placement record. The point is that there are only so many openings at the top 15 schools every year, so even those grads may have to look further down the list for employment, and many people wouldn't want the stress and political bs that comes with taking a job at a top 15 school. And if you are concerned with money, many schools in the top 20 pay the same or less than the so-called "lower" schools.

In my mind, it comes down to ego. If you are only going to be happy teaching at Columbia, or Yale, or Princeton, then more power to you, you have probably wanted that for a long time and have taken the steps to get there and I commend you for it. I on the other hand have taken a long time to figure out what it is I want to do. And I am willing to bust my butt at my lowly 22nd ranked school to prove that I am just as intelligent, capable, and driven as anyone else. And you know what, Harvard and Yale and Princeton would be damn lucky to employ me after I get done, but knowing how biased they are after going through this process, I don't know if I would even want to work at any of those places...

[polisciapp]

Can we move this discussion back towards schools and which ones we all are deciding between?

[silencio1982]

Listening to complex tales of undergrad odysseys good and bad re-enforces what I said: that rankings of schools, reputation, etc., is perhaps somewhat fair as criterion of judgment of a student, but there are always exceptions.

Again, still: the job market doesn't like asterisks. That's the harsh truth. But I think people in programs that are lower ranked or what have you are better off knowing this and internalizing it. Fight on knowing the stakes! And remember: worst case, you can go to law school. No tragedy.

Re: TT jobs. the trickle down effect is real. I had several profs at my Master's institution (rated between 45 and 75 for poli sci depending on what rankings you use) that got their Ph.Ds from U Chicago, Princeton, etc. If those people from the top 10 PhD programs take those types of jobs and everything above it, it follows that the rest of us will be fighting for their leftovers. However- there are important exceptions- within the past 8 years my most likely intended program also placed someone at Cornell, and someone at Northwestern-- probably the biggest name schools in addition to several other excellent universities and liberal arts colleges. I'm not saying that getting TT jobs will be a piece of cake, but it helps to have realistic expectations. I expect if I do really well in my Ph.D. program and make a name for myself I'll have a fighting chance at a TT job somewhere. For me, being at an R-1 university is not the be-all and end-all of my existence. Sure, it would be nice, but I know I could be happy at a liberal arts college too.

[silencio1982]

Can we move this discussion back towards schools and which ones we all are deciding between?

polisciapp, what schools are you deciding between? what's your subfield?

[yoon7724]

So, when deciding which school to go to vis-a-vis the placement record and etc, is it the ranking of each sub-field that we should be looking at or the ranking of the "overall" program? I was just confused.

[AllFiredUp]

Subfield I would assume, since they are the faculty writing your letters or recommendation.

[silencio1982]

So, when deciding which school to go to vis-a-vis the placement record and etc, is it the ranking of each sub-field that we should be looking at or the ranking of the "overall" program? I was just confused.

i personally don't think you should base your final decision on any rankings system. while they are indicative of the general reputation of the program, most of them range from mildly to severely out of date. placement records do seem to be a better choice as does assessing where your work would best fit in and where you would be happiest. it's all highly subjective and i don't think rankings can help you assess your fit as an individual. what rankings are a good guide for, in my opinion, is figuring out what tier of schools you are qualified to apply to... i do think that there are probably benefits (placement and otherwise) from going to a school in the 1-25 range that you don't get from 25-50, or 50-75, or 75-100 and so on and so forth. beyond that i am not sure they are all that useful.

[yoon7724]

Dear Silencio1982,

I absolutely agree with what you said. I am simply curious as to which ranking, i.e., sub-field or overall, I should look at, when you say it would be beneficial to go to "a school in the 1-25 range that you don't get from 25-50, or 50-75, or 75-100 and so on and so forth". Could you elaborate on that? Thanks.

[silencio1982]

Dear Silencio1982,

I absolutely agree with what you said. I am simply curious as to which ranking, i.e., sub-field or overall, I should look at, when you say it would be beneficial to go to "a school in the 1-25 range that you don't get from 25-50, or 50-75, or 75-100 and so on and so forth". Could you elaborate on that? Thanks.

weeeeeeell, other than IR (the william & mary rankings someone posted here), i don't know of any subfield rankings that go beyond the top 20, which makes life kind of difficult as far as subfield rankings go. the other thing is, as someone pointed out, can you absolutely guarantee with 100% certainty that you will end up in the subfield you applied in? if you can, i guess subfield rankings would be better, if your schools are included in the limited rankings available. but, then again, if you are going to schools in the top 20 of the subfield rankings, i don't think the rankings would really help all that much to make distinctions at that high of a level. that's just my personal opinion- i'm not an expert!

[ShamPain]

in @ Delaware, funding decisions forthcoming, but some sort of offer guaranteed.

[silencio1982]

in @ Delaware, funding decisions forthcoming, but some sort of offer guaranteed.

congrats!

[iheartplato]

UMD--College Park update, for those interested:

I called to check on admissions updates and the woman I spoke to in the department said that no decisions had gone out yet--that they would start to go out tomorrow.

I know a couple of people have already posted acceptances on here so take what you will from this info, but perhaps at the very least, the majority of acceptances have yet to go out? I certainly hope so!!

[JordanJames]

I'd like to contribute to the above discussion about qualifications and name of school. When I applied to college as a high school senior, I had no idea what I wanted to do or where I wanted to be. I had tremendous qualifications, 34 on the ACT, 3.87 gpa, national merit semifinalist. I applied to Columbia, MIT, Georgia Tech, and because it was closer to home and I had relatives who went there and loved it, Alabama. I was accepted to Columbia and Georgia Tech, as well as Bama. When my parents told me that they were in no position to help me financially, and my scholarships and loans wouldn't cover the cost of living in either Atlanta or New York, I enrolled at Bama. For three years I studied a subject that I hated, just because I thought it would be easy to get a job after (not poly sci), and did terribly. Had a miserably low gpa. It took me that long to figure out that I should pursue something that actually interested me, and switched majors. For the next 5 years of school, including my masters degree from a top 10 IR school, I had two b's and the rest A's.

I was able to increase my gpa to above a 3.0 for my undergraduate, but the damage had been done. Even though I kicked butt in my eventual major, my poor performance in a subject that has absolutely no relevance to my eventual decision to pursue a phd in poly sci has made it damn near impossible for me to get accepted at a top 10 school. Now, i feel fortunate that UIUC has looked past that stupid number, but there is a hefty bias in my opinion, not only against undergrad names, but also against people who take a while to figure out what they want to do when they grow up.

Forgive me if I didn't take that offer of admission to Columbia, immediately enroll in poly sci and multiple different languages, travel abroad extensively, have great internships and research projects with the giants in my field, study for two years for the gre, and have nobel laureates edit my SOP, I am just not that lucky...

Like I said before, if you go to the top state school in your state, I think you're still in position to go anywhere. I didn't mean that you have to go to Harvard.

[Canadianpolsci]

Princeton is all over. I repeat: over. Official rejection email from the Dean of A&S.

Sorry to those who were holding their breath. Exhale. Onwards and Upwards...!

[Quarex]

For example, my topic is extremely different. In fact, I consider myself fortunate to have been admitted ANYWHERE as I was, whereas I had to fight to even have my topic seen as belonging in the field of political science. There are no full time professors in the entire country which study my topic at any top 25 schools. Because I have been told that these forums are browsed by profs and I have yet to finish w/notifications, etc., I'll leave this at that. The point, however, is that if your topic is unusual it will be a hard sell no matter what your numbers are.

Ooh, it sounds like you are the first person who I can relate to here, research-wise. I was basically run out of Criminal Justiceburg on a rail for getting too heavily into policy and theory (not really, but my committee thought it would be a natural progression to move on to public policy/political science with my work), which left me in the unfortunate position of a second field change, likely not helping my application. Do you dare to disclose your topic? I suppose you are thinking that it is so specific that you are likely to be instantly identifiable by that alone.

Are there people out there who actually accept offers to go through an entire PhD program with no funding? I don't get it.

We had a pretty substantial discussion about this in a grad school thread on another forum. I, and other people in my situation who once had no idea why they were in college (and have the grades to prove it) until suddenly "clicking" with the field that they now know they want to become professors in, talked about how we would jump at the chance to do a Ph.D. anywhere, no matter the funding. The general consensus was that if they do not offer you funding, with some exceptions for schools that are just having extremely bad financial fortunes, they do not really want you in the department anyway, and will likely not offer you much in the way of non-financial support either.

Naturally, I asked why these programs would admit you at all if they thought nothing of you, and that answer was less clear. But having still received no outright Ph.D. acceptances, I am still mulling over going into any unfunded Ph.D. I receive, versus going to one of the three M.A. programs that admitted me and trying again in two years with a vastly improved application.

The point is that there are only so many openings at the top 15 schools every year, so even those grads may have to look further down the list for employment, and many people wouldn't want the stress and political bs that comes with taking a job at a top 15 school. And if you are concerned with money, many schools in the top 20 pay the same or less than the so-called "lower" schools.

My dad got his Ph.D. with abundant honors from Princeton, complete with years of amazing field research and grants and the whole nine yards, and then settled after one year of adjuncting into a position at a state school. He was always happy there, getting several more Fulbright grants to travel and teach about what he loved, even if at the end of the day he was not at a research institution. Not only do you make your own opportunities and increase your chances of getting where you want, odds are pretty good that if you are determined, you can get what you want by doing that as well, even if you do not end up where you think you have to be to do it.

Of course, the odds that you will be revered in your field probably go down as does your institution's ranking, but I imagine most of us do not really live for that anyway.

in @ Delaware, funding decisions forthcoming, but some sort of offer guaranteed.

Aw crap. Congratulations, but Delaware was one of the last places I still had some hope might admit me. Darn you and your better application, ShamPain! This just means I have to keep hoping that my girlfriend just gets admitted somewhere I have already been admitted. So I at least do not have to face the prospects of having neither a Ph.D. program nor a short-distance relationship.

Edit: Oh man, harsh, rejected from Princeton via e-mail even as I talked about my dad's good times there. Fortunately he is not the kind of dad who will disown me for failing where he succeeded.

[sundaymonday]

Princeton is all over. I repeat: over. Official rejection email from the Dean of A&S.

Sorry to those who were holding their breath. Exhale. Onwards and Upwards...!

Yep. Just got mine via email.

[polisciphd]

I still haven't gotten anything. What does it mean?!?!?!?

[polisciphd]

Well crap, guess my email was just slow. No Princeton for me...

[iheartplato]

Ohhhh well. Princeton would have been one helluva commute from D.C. anyway.

[lenin333]

Anyone have any inside info on U of Toronto? I am a student here but I feel like its a long shot anyway.