Teachers College Columbia vs King's College London (URGENT)

[xaviira]

Help! I have been accepted to both Teachers College Columbia (MA in Psychology in Education) and King's College London (MSc in Forensic Mental Health) and I have to decide which one to accept in the next few days. I'm Canadian, and will be attending either school as an international student. I have a small scholarship from TC and no funding offer from KCL yet. The two schools seem extremely comparable, unless I'm missing something - both schools are very expensive, and I'd be taking out a large loan either way. Both seem to have decent reputations in their native countries. Both are one-year programs.

My goal is to get a PhD in Clinical Psychology, preferably in my native Canada or in the United States, and licence/practice in Canada.  I've spent the last two years working as a youth worker at an inner city high school, and I'm interested in working in the same vein, in forensic psychology, or just generally working with marginalized populations, but I'm not quite sure of my exact career goals yet. I graduated in 2015 with an Honours BA in Psychology from a decent Canadian school (U of A) with a 3.7 GPA. I was rejected by every Canadian PhD program I applied to (ouch), and I'm looking to take a master's program to strengthen my application to those PhD programs. I just don't know which school to pick. 

So here's my thinking: King's seems to have a really solid reputation in England, forensic mental health is very relevant to my career goals and their program offers/requires a 75-day practicum at a prison or hospital. But I'm worried that a British school won't carry much weight when applying to a Canadian PhD programs, and I have no plans to work in Britain. The program is also very rigid with its course schedule, and doesn't seem to offer much opportunity to get involved in research. 

On the other hand, I think TC might carry a little more weight when applying within Canada or the USA, and the program seems to have opportunities for more research/field experience if you're proactive. They also offer a concentration in marginalized populations that seems really relevant to my career goals, and there's more flexibility in courses you can take. On a personal level, I'd rather live in NYC than London. But on the other hand, I've heard mixed things about TC; I know two people who went there (one for education, one for psychology) who both give it absolutely glowing reviews and are very successful in their careers, but I've also seen online reviews that say it's a diploma mill that isn't taken seriously, and that has me worried.

I've been leaning toward TC, but online reviews have me worried. Is KCL more of a "real school" than TC? Is one of them going to strengthen my application more? Is there an obvious choice here? I don't have long to make my final decision, and I'm freaking out.

[COGSCI]

Which PhD programs did you apply in Canada? As far as I know, most schools require applicants to have clinical psyc MA before applying to clinical psyc PhD programs (schools like UBC, UT, and UofA). Some have direct entry programs (like McGill) but generally you need to have a clinical psyc master's with thesis for PhD programs. Perhaps that is why you were not successful this year. 

As for TC (especially your program), I decided not to attend because of the same reviews. However, if you want to apply to US institutions it might be a good idea for you to attend TC (that program will not qualify you to become a clinician). Does KCL programs has a thesis component? If you are thinking about doing a PhD after you graduate, you would need to have a research & practice based program. Also, do you want to focus on forensic psyc or educational/developmental psyc? The courses that are offered in each program can be very different. 

Even if you complete these master's programs, you might need to do another MA (clinical psyc) before you get to PhD level in Canada. I would also consider strengthening your application by doing additional research or something else rather than spending a huge amount of money pursuing a degree in US or UK. 

[thelionking]

I'm assuming when you said you applied to Canadian PhD programs in Clinical Psych that you really applied to Master's programs in Canada and you said PhD because people are admitted into these programs with the expectation of doing a PhD at the same institution after completing the master's (and they are rarely denied admission, except in rare instances). If this is not the case, then as COGSI mentioned above, you do not meet admission requirements without a master's in Clinical Psych.

I would strongly encourage you to do a program that will give you lots of research experience or to take a job that will give you this experience. I know of someone who got into UofT's Clinical Psych program with very little clinical related experience (about 100-150hrs of volunteer work, which is considered above average for that kind of program) but had 2 years of part time experience as research assistant. It was only after gaining an additional year of full time experience running a research lab that this person finally got admitted into a couple of programs. Everything else in the applications remained the same in both application cycles - references, GPA, the statement of interest only had slight modifications, and the GRE scores were actually lower in the year of acceptance than in the previous application cycle. The only significant difference was that this person had acquired lots of extra research experience. 

Clinical Psyc degrees, as I'm sure you already know, have a heavy research component. Many people describe this program as doing 2 degrees at the same time - a research based program and a clinical based program because it's very intense in both areas. I think it would be wise to improve this area of your application if it isn't particularly strong or competitive compared to other applicants.

If you do a master's degree in Psych such as a research based degree and get admitted into a Clinical Psych program afterwards, you likely won't need to do another master's thesis in the Clinical Psych program (at least that's what happened in a couple of cases I am aware of). Instead, you'd be catching up by taking master's level courses you haven't completed and complete any necessary clinical training before being allowed to take PhD level courses.

I think you should take one of those programs if you'd be happy with either of those degrees in the event that you do not get accepted into Clinical Psych afterwards. If you wouldn't, then I'd suggest working instead to gain more research experience and possibly taking a few extra courses part time if you think there are any extra courses that would make your application stronger. Perhaps courses that are related to your research interest or extra courses in stats and research methods.