Narrowing Down Your List

[samman1994]

Hello everyone,

So I've been looking at various PhD programs, specifically in Structural and Integrative Structural Biology. I have my research focus primarily narrowed down to Structural/Functional protein work using NMR. Now I thought that would be specific enough, but it appears it isn't. I have a list of over 10+ schools to apply to, ranging everywhere from Yale, to University of Arizona, to the Scrippts Institute. My limiting factors have been: 1 lab I'm very interested in, and 2 back up labs that I'd also like to join if the first doesn't work. I've looked at location as well, but I don't really care about where I live. Now stipend information would be important to me, but I don't know how I would get to know that from each school. Funding is also important, but I don't want to end up emailing over 30+ professors to see if they have funding or room. I've also already gone and asked around to see if anyone knows any of the Professors I'm interested in and to see if they are immediate no no's. I'm at a point where I can't afford to send over 10 applications, but I also don't know how to narrow the list down. There are some schools who I am more interested in than others (i.e. a first choice, and second choice), but after my 3rd choice, the schools are all on the same level. Also, I don't care too much for brand name, my main focus is research opportunity. My ideas:

1) Some schools are naturally bigger and have many more options: I.e. Yale has over 20+ labs and programs in Structural Biology, whereas the University of Pittsburg only has around 8. Meaning if all 3 of my program interests end up failing, falling back into another lab will be a lot easier. So cut out some of the smaller programs?

2) There are some schools that do have higher application requirements. All schools seem to have an average GRE score, and minimum GPA 3.00, but some have a higher average than others. My GPA and GRE are both basically bare minimum, meaning my application is riding on LOR and research experience. I think those 2 are definitely enough to get me into some of the lower tier schools, but maybe not some of the higher ones (e.g. Yale or Harvard). So maybe just cut them out?

That's about it for ideas at the moment. If anyone has any ideas or tips please let me know! And thank you ahead of time!

[Sigaba]

I recommend applying to your top two schools no matter what.

For the others on your list, I recommend developing some sort of a scoring matrix that allows you to rank features and benefits for each school. The features could fall into broader categories that could have scores themselves. Once you've complex you could apply to the three or four highest scoring schools.

As an alternative, you could also have a sub matrix in which you rank admissions requirements and how well you think you meet those requirements. The scores from this matrix could be subtracted to the features and benefits scores. This approach would allow you to cross off schools that, as much as you'd like to attend, you understand that the odds are stacked against you.

A challenge of using scoring matrices is when you don't get the results that you really want. If that happens, you can start tweaking scores and calculations, sending out cocaine fueled rants on Twitter while sitting on the can, and blaming the MSM for providing fake news. (Because that's who we are now.)

What ever you do, I repeat that you absolutely should apply to your top two schools no matter what. They're going to offer admissions to applicants for Fall 2018--why not you?

[renea]

I just finished (well okay temporarily finished) narrowing down my list and it's really difficult. Whereas you have 10 as your number I wanted 5, and ended up with 6 (SO is applying as well, so really it's close to 14 apps total). For me, my SO's interests and needs helped narrowed down the list, but from there I looked at a few other things. For my method I have an excel sheet which I have the school, deadlines, cost, pros/cons, funding (estimates from the internet, gradcafe results, and colleagues), and at least 3 professors I would want to work with (for you this would also include labs).

 

What helped a lot was the pros/cons section. When I started writing out why I would want to attend I realized that for some programs, I just wasn't able to think of much other than it's a prestigious program! or wow huge stipend. Quite frankly, if that's my only reason for attending, it's probably not a good sign. To narrow it down further I started looking around at the well known programs in my field to see where they were hiring from. While placement records are great, some programs are vague and it might be too much work to email every program. Now my field is small (rhet/comp), but it seems that a lot of schools are hiring from the same school. Now going there won't guarantee that I'll find a job, but it's a pretty good indication that their students are being trained well and are hired to work in the best programs across the country.

 

I ended up with:

1. A big name school that I may not get into because it's very competitive

2. A lesser known program close to my family (but with good funding, interesting research, and good faculty)

3. A well known school in a location I'd love to live in

4. A safety school

5. A newer program, but with really cool curriculum and very interdisciplinary research

6. My current institution

 

Each school on my list serves a purpose and has 1 major benefit. A couple have more cons than others, but try to think of what each purpose of your school choices are. I agree with Sigaba, apply to your top 2 for sure.

 

[samman1994]

Hello, 

Thanks for the replies. So a bit of an update. I was able to narrow my list down to 6 schools as well (3+ professors each), but now I realized the hardest part is deciding which professor I'd like to join at each school. Applying to the school based on stipend, research, location, name, etc. is one thing, but deciding on the who to join from the 3 is a whole other issue. They all just sound so cool to me. One guy does DNA damage, another does virus work and RNA, another focuses on neurodegenerative diseases, but they are all things I'd like to do! Anyways my list came down primarily to who had the most interesting research, and so I sorta have most of the boxes checked as well:

1) Harvard (Big name school)

2) Scripps Institute (Relatively close to home)

3.4) UNC Chapel Hill and UN Conneticut (PI personally knows most of the people, pretty solid guarentee in from what she tells me, so safety school)

5/6) UN Michigan/Iowa state (Not exactly safety schools, but wanted to apply to more than just 4)

Honestly, don't really have many cons. Cambridge is expensive, Connetiticut seems boring to live in, everything but Scripps is literally other side of the country from me. Michigan is cold. But these aren't really cons. Program wise, they are all amazing, and I'd be really down to go to any school from 1-4. My number one school is actually La Jolla instead of Harvard due to location (if the programs are both great, then I might as well take the one close to home). Anyways, now I'm just in the process of choosing a professor, and I realized my research focus is no where near as specific as I had hoped. Everything sounds really cool, all the labs sound great, and now I can't pick any out. Anyways, good luck searching!

[rising_star]

@samman1994, you probably don't need to pick the specific professor right now while you're in the application process. You should be able to wait until after being accepted and visiting to decide which lab you want to join.

[TakeruK]

Glad to hear that you have a solid list of schools that excite you now! I agree with @rising_star. It was important to pick out 3 (ish) professors at each school that interests you but you do not need to narrow it down any further when writing your application. This is a decision for you to make after you visit and interact with the professors and students there. In some places, you don't pick until a few months or a year after you've started.

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

Hey guys,

I'm still in samman's previous boat, haha. I'm down to 14 schools, 15 programs total right now and having a tough time reducing it. My problem is that I intend to apply to both anth and comm schools. I have 9 comm programs that I'm interested in and 6 anth. I believe I'll be able to get the anth list down a bit more (my research interests are largely digital in nature and most anth programs are either not there or don't value it as much yet). I want to get my list down to an absolute maximum of 12 programs, with 10 or less being the ideal.

I've reached out to all of the Comm programs so far (mostly just the DGS to ask if my anth background is a problem with their program) and have heard back from all but one (all either positive and suggesting I apply or neutral and giving me a ton of information about the program and app process). The one anth program/prof I've reached out to hasn't gotten back to me since she sent a two sentence email, so I think I can take that school off the list. All programs I've included have at least 3 faculty with interests that connect to my intended research, though these connections are stronger in the Comm programs.

Any other tips for narrowing down? 

[TakeruK]

Applying to two programs generally lead to a larger application list, so you might not have to narrow down your list at all, unless you are limited by application fees (still, maybe there are some waivers you qualify for).

But if you have not yet presented your list to a faculty member or some other mentor, I found those discussions to be really helpful in narrowing down lists. They might know more information about the programs that could help you make decisions on what are good fits for you.

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

Thanks @TakeruK ! I am limited by funds so I've been keeping track of the schools with fee waivers. I have a spreadsheet with each of the schools, program, due date, rec letter number, sop/personal statement/cv requirement, fee amount, fee waiver availability, and a few other things. 

I just finished my MA and my third committee member is from Comm, so I plan to email her today or tomorrow about being an LoR and discussing the Comm programs. I'll also be emailing my advisor at the same time. 

[samman1994]

33 minutes ago, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

Thanks @TakeruK ! I am limited by funds so I've been keeping track of the schools with fee waivers. I have a spreadsheet with each of the schools, program, due date, rec letter number, sop/personal statement/cv requirement, fee amount, fee waiver availability, and a few other things. 

I just finished my MA and my third committee member is from Comm, so I plan to email her today or tomorrow about being an LoR and discussing the Comm programs. I'll also be emailing my advisor at the same time. 

So I don't know how anthro/communi field works, but a huge factor in my narrowing my list down was actually how active the POI currently was. In my field this is based off of publications, and I found the majority of the people I had on my list (along with the schools) had barely published in the last 4 years. Also, at the end of the day I went based off of "Is there another school with a better program than this? Yes? Cut" I.e. I only wanted to apply to one ivy league, and Harvard was the best out of all of them, so I cut all the others from my list. I actually theoretically had around 15 schools, but then I just compared them to one another. I would have been ok at any of them, but it came down to, who had the most interesting program. Anyways hope that helps! You may want to factor in stipend money and location. I cut out new york city early on because of stipend/living issues. The school I was looking at paid very little relative to the living costs. Anyways hope this helps!

[renea]

2 hours ago, GreenEyedTrombonist said:

Any other tips for narrowing down? 

I was potentially looking into applying to two different disciplines. I'm in rhetoric and writing which often tends to be housed in English departments, but there are a few comm departments that have solid programs for my research interests. I'm currently in a standalone rhet/comp department which has meant being able to largely focus on just rhet/comp in terms of my collegues, research, and courses. What my committee chair recommended was looking closely at the coursework/program requirements at each program.

Think about what training and methods are important to you. What do you want to spend more time on? For me, the foreign language requirment in a lot of English programs really helps me compare some programs (I mean, yeah I'm not lazy I can learn a foreign language again, but if I don't have to and it doesn't add to my studies why pick programs that have multiple requirements). Another factor is how many lit classes am I going to have to take to graduate. 

Something I've noticed in a lot of rhet/comp programs is that every school wants to market their tracks well, but not every school is as upfront about how many resources they have for their rhet/comp students. At the end of the day, if I'm only offered 1 course a semester in rhetoric and the rest are all lit classes- am I really being trained for the position I want? 

Even if the department says they focus on x, y, and z, their coursework may only cover x. Even if the department says they offer research in x, y, and z, they may only have 2-3 faculty members doing active research in those areas. 

It seems like digital research is a big factor in your application: why not see how much coursework they have in that area. Additionally, it may be helpful to start looking into what other resources the campus has in general for your work (digital humanities labs, interdisciplinary research groups, ect). 

[GreenEyedTrombonist]

@renea thanks for the advice! I'll definitely be looking into additional resources. I know I lean towards interdisciplinary approaches to research and have training in both quant and qual methods. Though it's not been the biggest deciding factor, I have been looking at foreign language requirements. I love the idea of learning a new language, but usually when this is a requirement in anth it indicates a program that still expects students to "go live among the natives." Not necessarily a bad thing, but if I need to learn Spanish to fulfill the requirement when Java or Python would actually be more useful to my research interests, that's something to consider.