When you've got no psych background...

[KevinG]

Hey everybody, 

 

I'm new here! I'd like to get a degree that'll equip me to practice counseling but also make me well-placed to compete for a Ph.D spot. Part of my would love to jump straight into a Ph.D, but I don't know of many programs who are interested in me without any psychology on my transcript. I've been out of college for a few years working with underserved teens and can articulate a clear vision for why I'm interested in studying psychology. 

My basic questions are: does anyone think I should even attempt to get into a Ph.D program? Will getting an M.S. hurt me in any way if I apply for Ph.D's down the road? Should I shoot for a high-level Master's program or can I be content with the local, affordable M.S. in Clinical Psych offered at EWU?

Here are some stats:

• B.S. in Biology, 3.7GPA
• Four semesters and a summer of biology research experience
• One co-authored publication
• Great references
• Experience working with youth in educational and non-profit program settings
• GRE: Studying for it now!
• Psychology classes: NONE!

The big worry for me is that I don't have any psychology on my transcript. I'm teaching myself out of the textbook Biology Psychology (Breedlove et al.) but I don't expect grad schools to care about that. So I'm also working to get my foot in the door with an animal lab from my undergrad to help out.

I would LOVE your advice and thoughts. I've been reading this forum for awhile but figured I'd better make my grad school journey official by joining

 

 

-- Kevin

[Oshawott]

I'm not sure if the subjects you're looking at requires it but consider taking the Psych Subject GRE to show you have basic level of knowledge in psychology. If you can talk about how your biology background can help your research in clinical psychology, I'd think it could work to your advantage.

[KevinG]

Thanks Oshawott! Have you done the subject test yourself? Would a prep book be worth the investment for the subject test?

 

[_kita]

@KevinG I wanted to touch base with you on the clinical psychology piece and licensure because you mentioned acquiring a counseling license as an end goal. You really need to check out the requirements for the state you'll want to practice in. This is a useful guide: http://www.counselor-license.com/

I'm letting you know this because depending on your state, a clinical psychology masters is useless. There are 2 main accrediting bodies CACREP (more about CACREP) and MPCAC (more about MPCAC). CACREP is currently winning the battle because it holds higher standards overall. They require 60 credit hour master programs and believe that psychology and counseling are two different fields with different specialties. Therefore, they are not accrediting clinical psychology programs any more - only counseling based ones.  For more on that here: http://www.cacrep.org/for-students/student-faqs-2/

Several states require CACREP accredited programs over MPCAC ones. Additionally, a lot of other states require a 60 credits. So they mean a CACREP program even though it's not expressly identified. I know a lot of students who graduated a MPCAC program only to find out they had to pay for the additional 12 credits after graduate to get licensed! If you look at this and thing "oh good, my state is safe" I say go for it, but be warned that the ACA is really trying to push for concrete CACREP across the board. You also run the risk of more problems than it's worth if you move into a state with CACREP requirements (or decide to start telecounseling in other states).

The CACREP programs line up for a PhD Counseling or PsyD Counseling. 

[Oshawott]

4 hours ago, KevinG said:

Thanks Oshawott! Have you done the subject test yourself? Would a prep book be worth the investment for the subject test?

 

I didn't go into clinical and my background was in psychology so I didn't do the subject test GRE. From other prospective clinical students I worked with in undergrad, they mentioned that one week's review of intro course work was sufficient to get them through the subject test. That said, they were psychology students and it was mostly review for them but getting a good score should be doable over a longer time span of studying.

[KevinG]

6 hours ago, _kita said:

@KevinG I wanted to touch base with you on the clinical psychology piece and licensure because you mentioned acquiring a counseling license as an end goal. You really need to check out the requirements for the state you'll want to practice in. This is a useful guide: http://www.counselor-license.com/

I'm letting you know this because depending on your state, a clinical psychology masters is useless. There are 2 main accrediting bodies CACREP (more about CACREP) and MPCAC (more about MPCAC). CACREP is currently winning the battle because it holds higher standards overall. They require 60 credit hour master programs and believe that psychology and counseling are two different fields with different specialties. Therefore, they are not accrediting clinical psychology programs any more - only counseling based ones.  For more on that here: http://www.cacrep.org/for-students/student-faqs-2/

Several states require CACREP accredited programs over MPCAC ones. Additionally, a lot of other states require a 60 credits. So they mean a CACREP program even though it's not expressly identified. I know a lot of students who graduated a MPCAC program only to find out they had to pay for the additional 12 credits after graduate to get licensed! If you look at this and thing "oh good, my state is safe" I say go for it, but be warned that the ACA is really trying to push for concrete CACREP across the board. You also run the risk of more problems than it's worth if you move into a state with CACREP requirements (or decide to start telecounseling in other states).

The CACREP programs line up for a PhD Counseling or PsyD Counseling. 

Kita, thank you very much for this excellent and useful post! I was aware of the importance of accreditation, but wasn't aware of the relationship between the Clinical Psych masters and CACREP. I'll check out WA State's requirements and come back, probably with more questions. 

In the mean time, Oshawott, I think I'm gong to buy a Kaplan Psych subject test prep book and study my butt off before the test date on October 28! I think it should be doable. 

 

Thanks for your help!!

[topsailpsych]

Kevin, I was a career changer too!  I had 6 hours of psych in my undergrad, and I was competing with people who were all psych majors during my multiple rounds of applications for programs.  I played up the fact that I was a unique applicant which helped get me some attention, and I had/have a very clear goal (with solid reasons for wanting to achieve that goal) of what I want to do when I complete my education, and that helped as well.  But really it depends upon the mentor you would be applying to and who else you might be competing against that application cycle.

Some pieces of advice that were given to me and proved helpful: if extra coursework is the difference between you getting in and not, there are plenty of online 12 or 15 credit hour certificate programs related to psychology which are proof to a POI that you can do well in school after a break and that you can pick up psych info in a class; if you are location bound (as I was and it sounds like you might be), learn as much as you can about the professors and the programs in your area and tailor your application specifically to the program; and play up your experience and your ability to persevere through adversity to get what you want.  Particularly if you are location bound it may take you several rounds of applications to get accepted, but the persistence will be ingrained in the memories of the faculty and honestly sometimes in grad school being able to stick with it no matter how hard it gets is a key skill.

I'm going to disagree with the others on taking the Psych GRE.  Most of the people who take it have an undergrad degree in psych, so the mean scores are very high, and that means those of us who don't have that background come in with a distinct disadvantage.  I am a very good test taker.  I studied fairly consistently for 4 months, and only scored in the 35th percentile.  Lots of the test was nuanced information about what ideas were part of what theory and in what year things happened.  I had one of the Kaplan books and I did quite well on the practice tests, so I'm not sure why I had such a poor showing on the actual test, unless it is just a matter of competing with people who spent 4 years learning material that I only had 4 months to learn.  On the whole very few programs require the Psych GRE, so at least for this round of applications, I would recommend saving your money.  If you don't get accepted this round and want to beef up your application for next round then it might be worth considering then.  That's just my 2 cents.