How are my GRE scores?

[mfafiction2019]

So I took the test today and got 163V/150Q, which met my personal goal of getting at least 160 on verbal and at least 150 on quant (I feel pretty proud of my quant score since before I started studying, I would score in the low 140s on quant). I know that most programs like to see better quant scores but one of my LORs is from my undergrad stats professor (I made an A in the class; stats is actually the only kind of math that I'm fairly good at/don't mind) and in my SOP I talk about wanting to learn statistics, even though I'm primarily a qual person/ethnographer (so I guess I show initiative)? I've read a lot that excellent GRE scores don't necessarily get you in but bad ones can keep you out, so I hope that my scores pass whatever cutoff that departments might have. My cumulative UG GPA is mediocre (3.3) but the last 2 years of undergrad are 3.75 (my UG didn't do + and -, so if you got a B, that showed up as a 3.0 on your transcript, even if it was an 89.9) and my GPA for my Master's coursework is basically a 4.0. What do you guys think? Everyone around me is telling me these are good scores, but I'm still extremely nervous, based on my UG cumulative GPA. 

[European Lumpi]

So what kind of schools are you aiming for? T25 schools with strong ethnographers? Different schools are bound to have different points they focus on during the application phase. People on here are going to be able to help you more precisely once they know what you are aiming at.

[cowgirlsdontcry]

11 hours ago, nywnorb120191 said:

So I took the test today and got 163V/150Q, which met my personal goal of getting at least 160 on verbal and at least 150 on quant (I feel pretty proud of my quant score since before I started studying, I would score in the low 140s on quant). I know that most programs like to see better quant scores but one of my LORs is from my undergrad stats professor (I made an A in the class; stats is actually the only kind of math that I'm fairly good at/don't mind) and in my SOP I talk about wanting to learn statistics, even though I'm primarily a qual person/ethnographer (so I guess I show initiative)? I've read a lot that excellent GRE scores don't necessarily get you in but bad ones can keep you out, so I hope that my scores pass whatever cutoff that departments might have. My cumulative UG GPA is mediocre (3.3) but the last 2 years of undergrad are 3.75 (my UG didn't do + and -, so if you got a B, that showed up as a 3.0 on your transcript, even if it was an 89.9) and my GPA for my Master's coursework is basically a 4.0. What do you guys think? Everyone around me is telling me these are good scores, but I'm still extremely nervous, based on my UG cumulative GPA. 

What is the exact field you want to apply to? Ethnography falls into a combination of history, anthropology and other doesn't it. Below is a link (copy & paste into browser) that shows Magoosh research indicating what top humanities programs' GRE scores are and it's rumored that humanities usually care less about Q than V. But look for yourself. 

https://magoosh.com/gre/2013/gre-scores-for-arts-and-humanities-programs/

 

[mfafiction2019]

2 hours ago, European Lumpi said:

So what kind of schools are you aiming for? T25 schools with strong ethnographers? Different schools are bound to have different points they focus on during the application phase. People on here are going to be able to help you more precisely once they know what you are aiming at.

I'm applying to Sociology programs (in the Top 30 roughly, and a couple of Top 5 programs as well, because of fit/research interests). Most of the programs have ethnography/qualitative methods well represented (some more than others). I'd like to get into the highest ranked program possible (obviously fit is important, but I'm not applying to any programs where I can't make a case for why my research would be a fit there). 

[European Lumpi]

@nywnorb120191 First of all: Congratulations for achieving the scores you aimed for! Every small victory along this strenuous process should be enjoyed

I think you don't have too worry too much about your scores. Your graduate GPA should help and make up a little for your somewhat lower UG GPA (Berkeley even states that they are interested in the GPA of your last two years) and I'm sure a letter from your Stats prof will help as well. Now, my best guess would be that your GRE scores are fine as long as you are applying to schools that have strong ethnographers and you are making clear that you aim to mostly work qualitatively. If I were you I might be a little hesitant to stress stats too much in your personal statement (other than showing that you are decent at stats, if not the rest of the GRE math), because I could see your quant score becoming a bit of a burden should the committee think that you'd want to work primarily quantitatively. As long as that's the case your scores should be competitive. Your verbal might be around or just below average for the higher-ranked programs and should be above the average the further you go down the list. You quant will be somewhat below the average for the most part, but you might be able to make up for that with your coursework or it might not even matter that much.

tldr: Considering your interest, most (qualitative) schools will probably not sort you out based on any of your scores. Neither will anybody jump to give you funding based on what you've written here. Apply for everything that interests you. You miss all the shots you don't take.

[mfafiction2019]

2 minutes ago, European Lumpi said:

@nywnorb120191 First of all: Congratulations for achieving the scores you aimed for! Every small victory along this strenuous process should be enjoyed

I think you don't have too worry too much about your scores. Your graduate GPA should help and make up a little for your somewhat lower UG GPA (Berkeley even states that they are interested in the GPA of your last two years) and I'm sure a letter from your Stats prof will help as well. Now, my best guess would be that your GRE scores are fine as long as you are applying to schools that have strong ethnographers and you are making clear that you aim to mostly work qualitatively. If I were you I might be a little hesitant to stress stats too much in your personal statement (other than showing that you are decent at stats, if not the rest of the GRE math), because I could see your quant score becoming a bit of a burden should the committee think that you'd want to work primarily quantitatively. As long as that's the case your scores should be competitive. Your verbal might be around or just below average for the higher-ranked programs and should be above the average the further you go down the list. You quant will be somewhat below the average for the most part, but you might be able to make up for that with your coursework or it might not even matter that much.

tldr: Considering your interest, most (qualitative) schools will probably not sort you out based on any of your scores. Neither will anybody jump to give you funding based on what you've written here. Apply for everything that interests you. You miss all the shots you don't take.

Thanks for your advice! I was wondering how I should approach stats in my SOP. Part of me was thinking that showing some interest would be good, but now that I've reflected on what you've said, perhaps emphasizing that I'm a qualitative person/ethnographer would be better (I come from anthropology and have a lot of experience in qualitative/ethnographic research). I guess my only question would be about your comment about funding...I've heard that's very much based on GRE scores and like most people applying to PhD programs, I won't go to a program that's unfunded, and some schools don't even admit people they can't fund. So I hope that my profile/scores/etc are good enough to get into one place (perhaps not a Top 5 school) with decent enough funding (even if that means TA/RA work). I've been accepted to another Master's program (in an unrelated discipline that's more professionally oriented) but they didn't give me enough merit scholarship money (I'd have to take out like $50k in loans....yikes), so I'm hoping that I get in with funding at least somewhere.

[European Lumpi]

It sounds like you're on the right track. Don't feel like you have to take out everything stats-related from your SOP though. You can still show that you're good at it and that your "low" GRE quant doesn't reflect your actual ability. Again, I'd just focus more on on qualitative work and structure around that.

Woops, sorry if that was unclear. I meant to insinuate something along the lines of your scores and GPAs not being good enough either that they'll get you accepted right away, no matter the rest of your application (mostly since scores like that don't really exist, I believe/hope). So yeah, like you said, don't go anywhere that's unfunded, but overall that's something to worry about once you get some acceptances. You should get fully funded at most of the better schools (like you realized though, the amount of TA/RA work might vary). 

Also, as far as what I can hear from all of these message boards, there is obviously a strong correlation between scores/grades and the rank of the program, but the margin for error is quite enormous. Don't count yourself out anywhere!

[cowgirlsdontcry]

53 minutes ago, European Lumpi said:

 I think you don't have too worry too much about your scores. Your graduate GPA should help and make up a little for your somewhat lower UG GPA (Berkeley even states that they are interested in the GPA of your last two years) and I'm sure a letter from your Stats prof will help as well. Now, my best guess would be that your GRE scores are fine as long as you are applying to schools that have strong ethnographers and you are making clear that you aim to mostly work qualitatively. If I were you I might be a little hesitant to stress stats too much in your personal statement (other than showing that you are decent at stats, if not the rest of the GRE math), because I could see your quant score becoming a bit of a burden should the committee think that you'd want to work primarily quantitatively. As long as that's the case your scores should be competitive. Your verbal might be around or just below average for the higher-ranked programs and should be above the average the further you go down the list. You quant will be somewhat below the average for the most part, but you might be able to make up for that with your coursework or it might not even matter that much.

If you look at the humanities chart I posted by Magoosh, you can see that  nywnorb's verbals are right in the middle of all of the top 10 humanities and social science programs ranking each by field. Since he also states he is looking at the social sciences, I am posting those scores below. I would be more concerned about his Q scores because they are either on the edge of the average or lower than the average top 50 in either field, especially because he is seeking to emphasize ethnography. I had GPAs of UG-3.85 and G-4.0 with scores like his, with SOP and WS vetted by three full professors (also my recommenders), and every T25 English dept. I applied to rejected me, which leaves to me to think that my Q score, the fact that I went to a Southern UG/G school, or my age (non-traditional) were contributing factors. 

Magoosh Social Sciences: https://magoosh.com/gre/2013/gre-scores-for-social-science-programs/

 

[European Lumpi]

hey @cowgirlsdontcry, thanks for the input. As you rightly point out, I have not been referring to humanities and social sciences in general, but rather just to sociology.

So the quant score is quite low, no doubt, but I don't think that should be in any way keeping @nywnorb120191 from applying anywhere (other than the previously mentioned stats-heavy programs). I would also recommend against using magoosh's GRE overview to that detail. The problem is that it bunches together too many different things and is not a lot more than a best guess. Taking Berkeley and UT-Austin as (very selectively chosen) examples (that help me make my argument): Berkeley (T5) average GRE scores 161V; 154Q, UT-Austin (T15) 159V, 151Q. While both quant scores are above 150, these are still averages. There's going to be plenty of people below that measure that got admitted. It would certainly not hurt to have higher scores, but I think it fit and motivation can make up for a lot of things. As I said before, for the qualitative schools scores of 163/150 will probably mean that you get your application looked at. From there on it is up to your SOP to seal the deal.

2 hours ago, cowgirlsdontcry said:

I would be more concerned about his Q scores because they are either on the edge of the average or lower than the average top 50 in either field, especially because he is seeking to emphasize ethnography.

Could you explain this again please? I don't quite follow why Q would be especially important if you're trying to focus on ethnography. 

I obviously can't venture any guesses into why the T25 schools you applied to didn't work out, but what I gather from working my way through all of these forums is that the amount of arbitrariness in admissions is quite significant. I'm therefore a little hesitant to make any specific guesses about which inferences to draw from your case about GRE scores. 

[cowgirlsdontcry]

57 minutes ago, European Lumpi said:

hey @cowgirlsdontcry, thanks for the input. As you rightly point out, I have not been referring to humanities and social sciences in general, but rather just to sociology.

So the quant score is quite low, no doubt, but I don't think that should be in any way keeping @nywnorb120191 from applying anywhere (other than the previously mentioned stats-heavy programs). I would also recommend against using magoosh's GRE overview to that detail. The problem is that it bunches together too many different things and is not a lot more than a best guess. Taking Berkeley and UT-Austin as (very selectively chosen) examples (that help me make my argument): Berkeley (T5) average GRE scores 161V; 154Q, UT-Austin (T15) 159V, 151Q. While both quant scores are above 150, these are still averages. There's going to be plenty of people below that measure that got admitted. It would certainly not hurt to have higher scores, but I think it fit and motivation can make up for a lot of things. As I said before, for the qualitative schools scores of 163/150 will probably mean that you get your application looked at. From there on it is up to your SOP to seal the deal.

Could you explain this again please? I don't quite follow why Q would be especially important if you're trying to focus on ethnography. 

I obviously can't venture any guesses into why the T25 schools you applied to didn't work out, but what I gather from working my way through all of these forums is that the amount of arbitrariness in admissions is quite significant. I'm therefore a little hesitant to make any specific guesses about which inferences to draw from your case about GRE scores. 

nywnorb states he is interested in statistical ethnographical studies, at least from what I can tell. That would imply a need for a statistical basis, which his Q score doesn't support, even though his grades in statistics were above his other math grades. I'm just saying that his Q score is low enough that, based on the both the Magoosh humanities and social science charts, it is the one to be concerned about. I didn't ever say he shouldn't apply, but I think that many opinions given on this site are way more optimistic about chances of getting admitted to top programs, which then leads applicants being even more upset, if they are rejected by programs than they should be. I was in the pool last year and to say some of the people appeared very distraught about not being admitted to their top choices is putting it mildly. The odds of getting admitted to top programs is very slim even with superior GPAs/GREs, which is why selection of programs must be a very close fit, in order to be admitted. There are also unknown variables that cannot be measured. 

My SOP and WS were vetted by 3 full professors, as well as my 3 recommenders (associate professors) who looked at them through several drafts. I had excellent specimens, not because of my superior ability, but because I had superior people making comments, which I followed. Having said all of that, the reasons why I said what I did about mine become more apparent. I only applied to programs that were good fits and I still was not admitted, which leads to the unknown variables that could possibly affect admission. I believe that it is very interesting to note that while I was not admitted to any T25 program outside the South, I was admitted to the one T25 program in the South I applied to. However, their funding was not as good as the large flagship university I eventually chose to accept. Programs are all different, but very similar in their requirements and actions within humanities and social sciences.

[European Lumpi]

56 minutes ago, cowgirlsdontcry said:

nywnorb states he is interested in statistical ethnographical studies, at least from what I can tell. That would imply a need for a statistical basis, which his Q score doesn't support, even though his grades in statistics were above his other math grades. I'm just saying that his Q score is low enough that, based on the both the Magoosh humanities and social science charts, it is the one to be concerned about. I didn't ever say he shouldn't apply, but I think that many opinions given on this site are way more optimistic about chances of getting admitted to top programs, which then leads applicants being even more upset, if they are rejected by programs than they should be. I was in the pool last year and to say some of the people appeared very distraught about not being admitted to their top choices is putting it mildly. The odds of getting admitted to top programs is very slim even with superior GPAs/GREs, which is why selection of programs must be a very close fit, in order to be admitted. There are also unknown variables that cannot be measured. 

My SOP and WS were vetted by 3 full professors, as well as my 3 recommenders (associate professors) who looked at them through several drafts. I had excellent specimens, not because of my superior ability, but because I had superior people making comments, which I followed. Having said all of that, the reasons why I said what I did about mine become more apparent. I only applied to programs that were good fits and I still was not admitted, which leads to the unknown variables that could possibly affect admission. I believe that it is very interesting to note that while I was not admitted to any T25 program outside the South, I was admitted to the one T25 program in the South I applied to. However, their funding was not as good as the large flagship university I eventually chose to accept. Programs are all different, but very similar in their requirements and actions within humanities and social sciences.

Ah okay. The way I understood nywnorb is that he is mainly interested in qual/ethnographic research. This usually does not entail a lot of statistics and therefore the programs do not expect quite as much on the quant front. I know that everybody is going to be aiming at good schools first on here and, of course, you are absolutely correct in that one should apply widely. A couple of things I just want to stress again:

1. I just really think that a lower Q is not as decisive of a factor as you might think if you target the right programs. Being above average in V and below average in Q, by a similar amount, probably means that you're pretty much on par for applications with a qualitative research preference. A better GRE would help, but it should mean that the GRE is unlikely to be the reason for your rejection.
2. Don't just take the Magoosh scores at face value. They are aggregates and won't help with individual decisions. Just looking at their websites one can see that nywnorb's scores are not too far off Berkeley's, but rather far away (at least Q) from Stanford's. Both of these schools are bunched up (somehow) in the Magoosh rankings and following these to decide where to apply will leave one to miss out on opportunities (or overestimate one's competitiveness). 
3. Point 1 and 2 are the reason why I think that nywnorb has a shot with several T25 schools. It is going to be difficult, but that is unfortunately the nature of PhD apps.
4. There is an argument to be made that a sociology phd below the T25 is quite a risk. The job market is incredibly tough as it is, even if you come from one of the better schools. I've heard many professors (and people on here) make the argument that it is much better to wait another year and try again than to settle for a T100 school. So while I would advise to apply widely, one has to think about how far down the list one would be willing to go. That is something everybody has to find out for themselves. And yes it sucks (!) to get rejected. And yes most people are going to get rejected. The game is tough for everybody, but don't let 4 missing points on the GRE be the reason you curb your enthusiasm. You'll need it to write your SOPs  

That you were accepted to a better school in the south is in fact interesting (I'm also a little jealous of the amount of help you've managed to receive from your letter writers hehe). I really wish there'd be more feedback on applications. Currently we all, more or less, seem to be relying on anecdotal evidence...

[mfafiction2019]

I'm honestly more interested in ethnography than anything (and only switched over from anthropology because my interests align more theoretically/thematically with sociology than with anthropology), but I've heard people say that if you focus exclusively on qual/ethnography, people won't take you seriously as a "social scientist" in sociology/will wonder why you're applying to sociology programs (this is also why I kept talking about my UG stats class). In some cases, I named quant professors who share similar thematic interests (i.e. a quant professor that does soc of education or social movements) as POI, but should I not do that, since my quant score is mediocre? And coincidentally enough, I'm planning on applying to the two schools that @European Lumpi mentioned

Edited October 22, 2017 by nywnorb120191

[European Lumpi]

I wouldn't worry about that @nywnorb120191. There are certainly a few people/departments where qual is still not quite accepted, but generally that is not the case. At least I wouldn't worry about it during the application phase. I don't know whether you should mention those people or not. I think if you're planning on doing purely/primarily ethnographic research, you might want to consider other professors to mention in your statement. Not so much because of your GRE score, but rather of your fit. You mainly want to identify people as POI that could act as your supervisor I believe. So if the people you mention use different methods, they might question your fit into the program.

You might still have reasons to mention them. I'm not sure. Just keep these things in mind. I hope some of this helps.

Good luck with those applications. Both schools sound like they have incredible programs. Give it your best shot (I'm assuming you meant UT as the second school and not Stanford, right?)

[mfafiction2019]

1 minute ago, European Lumpi said:

I wouldn't worry about that @nywnorb120191. There are certainly a few people/departments where qual is still not quite accepted, but generally that is not the case. At least I wouldn't worry about it during the application phase. I don't know whether you should mention those people or not. I think if you're planning on doing purely/primarily ethnographic research, you might want to consider other professors to mention in your statement. Not so much because of your GRE score, but rather of your fit. You mainly want to identify people as POI that could act as your supervisor I believe. So if the people you mention use different methods, they might question your fit into the program.

You might still have reasons to mention them. I'm not sure. Just keep these things in mind. I hope some of this helps.

Good luck with those applications. Both schools sound like they have incredible programs. Give it your best shot (I'm assuming you meant UT as the second school and not Stanford, right?)

Thank you so much!

And yes, UT was the second school. Stanford (like you've shown and like I've read) is way too quant-y for me lol

[cowgirlsdontcry]

5 hours ago, European Lumpi said:

That you were accepted to a better school in the south is in fact interesting (I'm also a little jealous of the amount of help you've managed to receive from your letter writers hehe). I really wish there'd be more feedback on applications. Currently we all, more or less, seem to be relying on anecdotal evidence...

There were only 4 English MA students on campus. The rest were far away and online. Three out of the four of us applied to PhD programs and we received enormous support and assistance from the department's professors. I might add all three of us were accepted into PhD programs.

[ereoupupup]

Hello~I am preparing to apply for Phd program (quantitative focus), and my GRE scores 164+168+3, I am wondering will my writting score too low to be accepted? Hope to get some suggestions.

[European Lumpi]

On 11/25/2017 at 7:54 AM, ereoupupup said:

Hello~I am preparing to apply for Phd program (quantitative focus), and my GRE scores 164+168+3, I am wondering will my writting score too low to be accepted? Hope to get some suggestions.

Depends on your writing sample and, assuming you're an international student, toefl, I'd say. Those should easily give you the opportunity to balance out your GRE writing. If those aren't that great either some programs might be hesitant to offer you a spot though. It's hard to say more given that we only know your GRE scores.

[MSilves]

Hi everyone, 

I have a similar question regarding GRE scores for top sociology PhD programs - I recently took the GRE and scored 165V, 154Q, and 6 AW - basically I am trying to gauge whether my relatively low math score will limit my application. From what I've researched so far, it seems as though the averages for GRE scores for top programs is much higher in verbal than in quant, but I'm deciding on whether I need to take it again or whether it will not count against me considering my verbal and writing score. I am interested in primarily qualitative sociology, not quantitative. I am also aware that most schools take your whole application into consideration but use the GREs as an initial weeding out process. Any advice would be super helpful. Thank you!