International PhD Market?

[Imenol]

I have not seen any recent discussion on the international job market for PhD students in History. It seems to me that, while some people might do Post-Docs abroad, most return to the US for longterm teaching positions. Is there any reason for this? Is the international market more dire or less welcoming of American PhD students, or does this reflect geographical preferences? While a fair share of people do go to the UK, I am struck by the low numbers of people who decide to teach in other countries with strong academic communities, such as France or Germany. Do language skills also play a part? Or are those positions tilted towards domestic applicants? As someone from Italy considering to do a PhD at the US, I wonder about opportunity o return to Europe. 

[psstein]

2 hours ago, Imenol said:

I have not seen any recent discussion on the international job market for PhD students in History. It seems to me that, while some people might do Post-Docs abroad, most return to the US for longterm teaching positions. Is there any reason for this? Is the international market more dire or less welcoming of American PhD students, or does this reflect geographical preferences? While a fair share of people do go to the UK, I am struck by the low numbers of people who decide to teach in other countries with strong academic communities, such as France or Germany. Do language skills also play a part? Or are those positions tilted towards domestic applicants? As someone from Italy considering to do a PhD at the US, I wonder about opportunity o return to Europe. 

The job market in multiple European countries is arguably worse than it is in the US. I know of a German history PhD who works at a Christmas market.

[fortsibut]

1 hour ago, psstein said:

The job market in multiple European countries is arguably worse than it is in the US. I know of a German history PhD who works at a Christmas market.

Well that's one of the more depressing things I've read in awhile.  =(

[AP]

Many friends of mine are applying for jobs abroad, especially Australia, Norway, England, and the Netherlands. So I am talking of people that want some job, they are not even weighing in the lack of moving funds or other perks that they might get in the US. Yet, this is highly field-dependent. As a latinamericanist, I am leaning more towards Spain and Portugal, and Latin America (Mexico, Colombia, Peru, and Chile). 

In both cases, Europe and Latin America, it's not only a question of language but of higher education structure, access to research funds in the long term, and demand. For example, an East-Asianist will most probably find a market in Australia and New Zealand (I think, please people correct if I'm wrong) than Chile. I have more chances of landing a job in the Iberian world than in China. 

I do think it is worth looking at the international market, to keep it as an option, and to prepare for it if needed. 

[dr. t]

Yeah, it depends a lot. American medievalists frequently place in British universities, but, in what I can only call a massive fulfillment of stereotype, the French only really hire the French for such positions. Germany seems to come somewhere in between - German academic networking and production is pretty different from the American model. A lot of universities in southeast Asia with English as the primary language of instruction are looking for European/American academics, and I have a couple of friends who went that route.

In general, the wider you cast your net, the more likely it is you'll find something, but there's still nothing even close to a guarantee that the something will be any good.

[psstein]

5 hours ago, fortsibut said:

Well that's one of the more depressing things I've read in awhile.  =(

It is rather upsetting. I would add, though, that China and several E. Bloc countries are looking for English-speaking scholars. 

In my undergrad, a professor told me to go on H-Net to look at job listings. Some university in Kazakhstan was interested in hiring historians. There are options on the international market, it's just that some of them aren't great. I think there's a listing for a university in Saudi Arabia on H-Net right now, actually.

Edited December 19, 2017 by psstein

[khigh]

21 minutes ago, psstein said:

It is rather upsetting. I would add, though, that China and several E. Bloc countries are looking for English-speaking scholars. 

In my undergrad, a professor told me to go on H-Net to look at job listings. Some university in Kazakhstan was interested in hiring historians. There are options on the international market, it's just that some of them aren't great. I think there's a listing for a university in Saudi Arabia on H-Net right now, actually.

I too know a German history PhD working at a Christmas Market.  The Netherlands are also notoriously hard to find a job in unless you are specific in your studies, though their intermediate levels (equivalent to high school here, but university track, so maybe more equivalent to community college) pay very well and are easier to get hired on.  There's also the chance to work at DOD schools in Germany, but those too are high school level, or American universities in other countries.  From what I've seen, it's not easy, but it's not impossible.  

Boyfriend and I actually talked about SA for awhile, or UAE, but I wouldn't take too well to the culture because I am female, love driving, and we both like wine with our meals.

Edited December 19, 2017 by khigh

[TMP]

OP, it's really about casting a wide net as well as opportunities to live abroad for a bit. It's not that the international market is any better than being in the US/Canada. With English increasingly becoming lingua franca in higher education, native/fluent English speakers are able to look at the world as their oyster.

[lordtiandao]

Both of my advisers are department heads at two of the eight UGC funded universities in Hong Kong. Both have told me that Hong Kong universities highly prefer candidates who graduated out of the top ten universities in the US, especially Ivies. In fact, for the institution I'm currently attending, the policy established by the dean is that if you're not from a top ten US school, you won't even get an interview (unless you graduate out of Cambridge or Oxford). Publication record is the next important thing after the prestige of the university you attended. Hong Kong universities compete with one another for rankings (since rankings determine funding), so they all want top US graduates who can pump out books, book chapters, and journal articles.

Edited December 19, 2017 by lordtiandao

[psstein]

2 hours ago, khigh said:

I too know a German history PhD working at a Christmas Market.  The Netherlands are also notoriously hard to find a job in unless you are specific in your studies, though their intermediate levels (equivalent to high school here, but university track, so maybe more equivalent to community college) pay very well and are easier to get hired on.  There's also the chance to work at DOD schools in Germany, but those too are high school level, or American universities in other countries.  From what I've seen, it's not easy, but it's not impossible.  

Boyfriend and I actually talked about SA for awhile, or UAE, but I wouldn't take too well to the culture because I am female, love driving, and we both like wine with our meals.

In honesty, I might have lifted that from you. I said "I know of," so I think we're referring to the same person. I can think of another example: a very well-known British New Testament scholar, when he first graduated from his PhD, worked at Euro Disneyland because he couldn't find another job. 

As @telkanuru said, you'll have more options the more you search, but they're not always attractive options.

[AP]

4 hours ago, psstein said:

It is rather upsetting. I would add, though, that China and several E. Bloc countries are looking for English-speaking scholars. 

In my undergrad, a professor told me to go on H-Net to look at job listings. Some university in Kazakhstan was interested in hiring historians. There are options on the international market, it's just that some of them aren't great. I think there's a listing for a university in Saudi Arabia on H-Net right now, actually.

Yes! A friend of my bf is a temporary instructor in Kazakhstan (his research country) (he is still ABD).

[khigh]

10 hours ago, psstein said:

In honesty, I might have lifted that from you. I said "I know of," so I think we're referring to the same person. I can think of another example: a very well-known British New Testament scholar, when he first graduated from his PhD, worked at Euro Disneyland because he couldn't find another job. 

As @telkanuru said, you'll have more options the more you search, but they're not always attractive options.

That actually makes me feel a lot better. I was hoping there wasn’t a rash of German history PhDs working at Christmas Markets! Granted, he went for research, but was looking for a job at the same time. It’s hard for us because I’m supporting two households in my gap year by selling luxury cars. If I get into graduate school, he will be supporting the both of us. Either way, he’s coming home in a month or so. 

That is one thing that I honestly think helps underemployed or unemployed academics: having a partner that understands and will support your dreams. The depression still hits hard, but is tempered by someone who will tell you that everything is going to be okay even if we live like Diogenes.