Advice needed

[Wugie]

Hello Linguists,

I am an international student trying to apply to MA programs in linguistics. 

Background: BA in English (as a second language) from a no-name university in a third world country; not so impressive GPA; GRE V159Q160; TOEFL 115; one writing sample in phonetics

I am mainly looking for schools in the US and the UK because almost all the European (and Canadian) schools I looked at require a BA in linguistics or at least a certain amount of credit points taken in linguistics and I have neither of those. I do intend to go for a PhD eventually, but given my background, I don't think I'm competitive enough just yet. I also don't have an exact research interest yet, so I'm hoping to get enough exposure to different subdisciplines during my MA to help me decide what I want to pursue. Right now I'm leaning towards phonetics/phonology and also wish to maybe get into some neuro stuff, although people have been telling me comp-ling is what will get me employed. 

So, I'm still zeroing in on programs. I would probably prefer schools that

1. are in the US (because universities in the States have a better reputation in my home country than universities in the UK and Australia/New Zealand and any Asian universities, and if I need to come back to my home country to look for a job if/when I failed to get into a PhD program, a US school will look better on my CV since HRs here don't care about things like publication or research or GPA other than the name of the school) 

2. are located in a city that has a good public transportation system (because I prefer not having to buy a car as an international student on a budget)

3. will give me a boost when I apply to PhD programs

4. will give me exposure to different subdisciplines, especially neuro, hopefully

Right now I'm thinking about Boston, Georgetown, the MAPH at UChicago, and Edinburgh. Among them, UChicago and Edinburgh both have good rankings but both are one-year programs and I'm worried about having to apply to PhD programs only 2-3 months in the MA program (no good recommendations, no grades, no good paper, etc), also the MAPH sounds a bit too intimidating tbh. Does anyone have experiences with any of the schools/programs above?

*I did read Fuzzylogician's post on lists of MA programs, but I don't think they apply to my situation

** Some Canadian schools have things like a qualifying year but if I don't get admitted after the qualifying year will it look bad if I apply elsewhere?

***A friend of mine suggested applying to universities in France although my French is barely conversational. But according to them, linguistics in France is "Anglified" and I will get by before I can speak/read French at a functional level. Please verify?

Thanks for reading!

Any suggestions/advice welcome!

Edited December 21, 2017 by Wugie

[fuzzylogician]

13 minutes ago, Wugie said:

** Some Canadian schools have things like a qualifying year but if I don't get admitted after the qualifying year will it look bad if I apply elsewhere?

***A friend of mine suggested applying to universities in France although my French is barely conversational. But according to them, linguistics in France is "Anglified" and I will get by before I can speak/read French at a functional level. Please verify?

Canadian schools might be your best option. They actually fund their MA students, unlike US schools. It's fairly common for students to come into the MA program and apply to other PhD programs, no one is going to think twice about it. The top three programs to look at are: Toronto, UBC, McGill. Others: Simon Frasier and Concordia, maybe. 

Concerning France, I'm not sure how easy it would be to live and study in a country whose language you don't speak. Even if you could have meeting and write in English, as soon as you need to take classes or really do anything else (talks, reading groups, group projects), life might get hard. And that's not even mentioning the fact that living in a country/city without speaking the language can get very hard very fast. But if you are considering such things, look into Berlin and Amsterdam as well. They have very good people who do their linguistics in English, and those cities might be more tolerant of non-local-language-speakers.

[spreadglottis]

1 hour ago, fuzzylogician said:

Toronto, UBC, McGill

I'm currently applying to Canadian MA programs and these schools actually have pretty strict entry requirements. They require specific courses (semantics, phonetics, etc.) and usually a BA. McGill and Toronto offer a qualifying year but no funding for it.

[historicallinguist]

6 hours ago, Wugie said:

Hello Linguists,

I am an international student trying to apply to MA programs in linguistics. 

Background: BA in English (as a second language) from a no-name university in a third world country; not so impressive GPA; GRE V159Q160; TOEFL 115; one writing sample in phonetics

I am mainly looking for schools in the US and the UK because almost all the European (and Canadian) schools I looked at require a BA in linguistics or at least a certain amount of credit points taken in linguistics and I have neither of those. I do intend to go for a PhD eventually, but given my background, I don't think I'm competitive enough just yet. I also don't have an exact research interest yet, so I'm hoping to get enough exposure to different subdisciplines during my MA to help me decide what I want to pursue. Right now I'm leaning towards phonetics/phonology and also wish to maybe get into some neuro stuff, although people have been telling me comp-ling is what will get me employed. 

So, I'm still zeroing in on programs. I would probably prefer schools that

1. are in the US (because universities in the States have a better reputation in my home country than universities in the UK and Australia/New Zealand and any Asian universities, and if I need to come back to my home country to look for a job if/when I failed to get into a PhD program, a US school will look better on my CV since HRs here don't care about things like publication or research or GPA other than the name of the school) 

2. are located in a city that has a good public transportation system (because I prefer not having to buy a car as an international student on a budget)

3. will give me a boost when I apply to PhD programs

4. will give me exposure to different subdisciplines, especially neuro, hopefully

Right now I'm thinking about Boston, Georgetown, the MAPH at UChicago, and Edinburgh. Among them, UChicago and Edinburgh both have good rankings but both are one-year programs and I'm worried about having to apply to PhD programs only 2-3 months in the MA program (no good recommendations, no grades, no good paper, etc), also the MAPH sounds a bit too intimidating tbh. Does anyone have experiences with any of the schools/programs above?

*I did read Fuzzylogician's post on lists of MA programs, but I don't think they apply to my situation

** Some Canadian schools have things like a qualifying year but if I don't get admitted after the qualifying year will it look bad if I apply elsewhere?

***A friend of mine suggested applying to universities in France although my French is barely conversational. But according to them, linguistics in France is "Anglified" and I will get by before I can speak/read French at a functional level. Please verify?

Thanks for reading!

Any suggestions/advice welcome!

I think your best bet is Boston University. The overall ranking of this university is high, but its linguistics program is somewhat weak, meaning it is not hard for you to get in. There are some other choices you can get if you absolutely need funding to go(you didn't know specify whether you can go without funding)Other programs in the States such as the one at university of Iowa may have partial funding (ie no funding for the 1st year but full funding for the second year) for international students, but you will have much fewer opportunities for both mentoring and jobs compared with BU.

Don't go to a qualifying year program because that will get you to nowhere if you couldn't get a phd offer after that. Focus on MA program which could serve as a qualification for you to apply for a job if you couldn't get a phd offer after you graduate from the MA program.

Also, I won't recommend the one year Master program at Chicago and any one year master program. This is because being in a one year master program means you will start apply for a phd weeks after you started your Master program in the Fall, and I don't think that is a good time for you to apply. So, applying for a two year MA program should be the better option, as then you will have at least a year to prepare a good writing sample, and get good letters from professors in the MA program after they knew you well.

[Wugie]

13 hours ago, fuzzylogician said:

Concerning France, I'm not sure how easy it would be to live and study in a country whose language you don't speak. Even if you could have meeting and write in English, as soon as you need to take classes or really do anything else (talks, reading groups, group projects), life might get hard. And that's not even mentioning the fact that living in a country/city without speaking the language can get very hard very fast. But if you are considering such things, look into Berlin and Amsterdam as well. They have very good people who do their linguistics in English, and those cities might be more tolerant of non-local-language-speakers.

I thought the same thing about France, but he insisted that it will work. Just wanted to verify. Thanks:)

 

13 hours ago, fuzzylogician said:

Canadian schools might be your best option. They actually fund their MA students, unlike US schools. It's fairly common for students to come into the MA program and apply to other PhD programs, no one is going to think twice about it. The top three programs to look at are: Toronto, UBC, McGill. Others: Simon Frasier and Concordia, maybe. 

I remembered the Canadian schools all required a BA or at least enough courses taken in Linguistics. I only have a BA in English Language, probably don't have a chance there. About the qualifying year, it will probably be bad if I can't get in their PhD program and have to apply elsewhere because then it will look like I did a qualifying year at school A, was rejected by the proper degree program at school A and then turned to applied to schools B, C and D. Or maybe I'm ignorant? 

[Wugie]

12 hours ago, spreadglottis said:

I'm currently applying to Canadian MA programs and these schools actually have pretty strict entry requirements. They require specific courses (semantics, phonetics, etc.) and usually a BA. McGill and Toronto offer a qualifying year but no funding for it.

Yes, I have the same impression. 

[Wugie]

Thanks for the reply! But I still have a few questions if you don't mind.

16 hours ago, historicallinguist said:

I think your best bet is Boston University. The overall ranking of this university is high, but its linguistics program is somewhat weak, meaning it is not hard for you to get in. 

 

If the linguistics program is rather weak, would it be helpful for my application to PhD programs?  Also, are there some "reach" schools/programs that I should consider?

16 hours ago, historicallinguist said:

you didn't specify whether you can go without funding

Just talked to my parents, they told me they probably have enough money for one year, not sure if they'd be able to save up for the second year during the first year. But I guess I'll try to figure something out.

16 hours ago, historicallinguist said:

So, applying for a two year MA program should be the better option, as then you will have at least a year to prepare a good writing sample, and get good letters from professors in the MA program after they knew you well.

Found this on the webpage of the MA program at Boston University: 

"The MA program is designed to be completed in one year, though students wishing to complete a major independent research project, akin to a thesis or capstone project, may wish to consider spending three or four semesters in the program instead. Entering students are expected to have already completed introductory classes in:

• Phonetics/phonology (e.g., CAS LX 301)
• Syntax (e.g., CAS LX 321)
• Semantics/pragmatics (e.g., CAS LX 331)

Students who do not have a sufficient background in linguistics must complete additional coursework to fulfill those prerequisites prior to entry or during the first semester. Such coursework will not be counted toward the master’s degree requirements."

Does this mean I can spend 1.5 - 2 years in the program? (I haven't taken any of the courses mentioned in the above list) And does this mean I will need some kind of approval to be able to do a thesis/project (as opposed to the thesis being an integral part of the graduation requirement)? 

Also, if I can spend an extra year at Boston, can I do something similar in the one year program at Chicago (their MA program looks a bit more self-designed-ish than the one at Boston)?

[fuzzylogician]

Really, these are questions that are best addressed directly to these programs. There aren't that many of them that you're considering. Contact them, explain your situation, and ask. Best we can do is guess. 

[historicallinguist]

9 hours ago, Wugie said:

If the linguistics program is rather weak, would it be helpful for my application to PhD programs?  Also, are there some "reach" schools/programs that I should consider?

Being rather weak doesn't mean it won't be helpful for you to apply for Ph.D. programs. One thing you need to consider is private vs public schools. class size in private is usually much smaller than the public school, meaning that you will have more contact and personal attention from your professors. Also, in private school, masters level courses are almost exclusively taught by real professors, but in public school there is a good chance that masters level courses are taught by Ph.D. students. Because LORs written by Ph.D. students are rarely helpful, you probably don't want to be in a situation that you will have to ask Ph.D. students to write you letters because you have no one else to ask for. Also, some masters level courses in public schools are also online courses, which are something you probably want to avoid too.  So, everything else being equal, choose a private school over a public one, for the sake of your letter of recommendation. 

Try some reach schools, but probably not too many. I guess 3-4 reach schools are enough.

9 hours ago, Wugie said:

Does this mean I can spend 1.5 - 2 years in the program? (I haven't taken any of the courses mentioned in the above list) And does this mean I will need some kind of approval to be able to do a thesis/project (as opposed to the thesis being an integral part of the graduation requirement)? 

Also, if I can spend an extra year at Boston, can I do something similar in the one year program at Chicago (their MA program looks a bit more self-designed-ish than the one at Boston)?

I guess that you could take advantage of the fact that you never took these courses and try to spend two years in Boston. That way, in the first semester of the second year when you apply, you have in your belt some course grades in linguistics in your transcript, some term papers already written that could be used for writing samples, and some professors who know you and can write you good letters. Thesis is not necessary if you already have some good term papers that could be used for writing sample and if your masters program doesn't require a thesis. These are just my personal thoughts about it. Like fuzzy said, check with the program, and see what they have to say. 

But be sure that, when you ask, ask in a way that you do not project yourself as someone who does not know what your career goal/research goal is, because this will undermine your chance to get into the masters program.

[Wugie]

On 12/23/2017 at 3:50 AM, fuzzylogician said:

Really, these are questions that are best addressed directly to these programs. There aren't that many of them that you're considering. Contact them, explain your situation, and ask. Best we can do is guess. 

Thanks, that makes sense, I'll contact the programs. 

[Wugie]

On 12/23/2017 at 1:32 PM, historicallinguist said:

Being rather weak doesn't mean it won't be helpful for you to apply for Ph.D. programs. One thing you need to consider is private vs public schools. class size in private is usually much smaller than the public school, meaning that you will have more contact and personal attention from your professors. Also, in private school, masters level courses are almost exclusively taught by real professors, but in public school there is a good chance that masters level courses are taught by Ph.D. students. Because LORs written by Ph.D. students are rarely helpful, you probably don't want to be in a situation that you will have to ask Ph.D. students to write you letters because you have no one else to ask for. Also, some masters level courses in public schools are also online courses, which are something you probably want to avoid too.  So, everything else being equal, choose a private school over a public one, for the sake of your letter of recommendation. 

Try some reach schools, but probably not too many. I guess 3-4 reach schools are enough.

I guess that you could take advantage of the fact that you never took these courses and try to spend two years in Boston. That way, in the first semester of the second year when you apply, you have in your belt some course grades in linguistics in your transcript, some term papers already written that could be used for writing samples, and some professors who know you and can write you good letters. Thesis is not necessary if you already have some good term papers that could be used for writing sample and if your masters program doesn't require a thesis. These are just my personal thoughts about it. Like fuzzy said, check with the program, and see what they have to say. 

But be sure that, when you ask, ask in a way that you do not project yourself as someone who does not know what your career goal/research goal is, because this will undermine your chance to get into the masters program.

Thanks for the reply! It's been very helpful. I used to think the thesis will be my writing sample and that having to write a thesis is the indicator of a program being more further-education-oriented. But I suppose I can use a term paper as the writing sample too, assuming I have one that's somewhat relatively satisfactory when I apply. 

And happy holidays

[thevphone]

On 21/12/2017 at 8:33 PM, Wugie said:

Hello Linguists,

I am an international student trying to apply to MA programs in linguistics. 

Background: BA in English (as a second language) from a no-name university in a third world country; not so impressive GPA; GRE V159Q160; TOEFL 115; one writing sample in phonetics

I am mainly looking for schools in the US and the UK because almost all the European (and Canadian) schools I looked at require a BA in linguistics or at least a certain amount of credit points taken in linguistics and I have neither of those. I do intend to go for a PhD eventually, but given my background, I don't think I'm competitive enough just yet. I also don't have an exact research interest yet, so I'm hoping to get enough exposure to different subdisciplines during my MA to help me decide what I want to pursue. Right now I'm leaning towards phonetics/phonology and also wish to maybe get into some neuro stuff, although people have been telling me comp-ling is what will get me employed. 

So, I'm still zeroing in on programs. I would probably prefer schools that

1. are in the US (because universities in the States have a better reputation in my home country than universities in the UK and Australia/New Zealand and any Asian universities, and if I need to come back to my home country to look for a job if/when I failed to get into a PhD program, a US school will look better on my CV since HRs here don't care about things like publication or research or GPA other than the name of the school) 

2. are located in a city that has a good public transportation system (because I prefer not having to buy a car as an international student on a budget)

3. will give me a boost when I apply to PhD programs

4. will give me exposure to different subdisciplines, especially neuro, hopefully

Right now I'm thinking about Boston, Georgetown, the MAPH at UChicago, and Edinburgh. Among them, UChicago and Edinburgh both have good rankings but both are one-year programs and I'm worried about having to apply to PhD programs only 2-3 months in the MA program (no good recommendations, no grades, no good paper, etc), also the MAPH sounds a bit too intimidating tbh. Does anyone have experiences with any of the schools/programs above?

*I did read Fuzzylogician's post on lists of MA programs, but I don't think they apply to my situation

** Some Canadian schools have things like a qualifying year but if I don't get admitted after the qualifying year will it look bad if I apply elsewhere?

***A friend of mine suggested applying to universities in France although my French is barely conversational. But according to them, linguistics in France is "Anglified" and I will get by before I can speak/read French at a functional level. Please verify?

Thanks for reading!

Any suggestions/advice welcome!

If you're thinking about Europe, the University of Amsterdam has one of the best programs! They have very good people on Phonetics/Phonology, and you're exposed to a lot of disciplines, including clinical (and neuro I think). It's pretty easy to get into the one year MA in Linguistics, while getting into the two-year program is more difficult. Although, if you have good grades during the first semester, you can easily switch to the two-year program. So, as for 2., 3., and 4 the UVA is perfect!

Also, not speaking Dutch is not a problem at all, as the program is entirely in English and all the Dutchies speak English anyway!

 

 

[Wugie]

On 1/3/2018 at 8:30 AM, thevphone said:

If you're thinking about Europe, the University of Amsterdam has one of the best programs! They have very good people on Phonetics/Phonology, and you're exposed to a lot of disciplines, including clinical (and neuro I think). It's pretty easy to get into the one year MA in Linguistics, while getting into the two-year program is more difficult. Although, if you have good grades during the first semester, you can easily switch to the two-year program. So, as for 2., 3., and 4 the UVA is perfect!

2

Thank you for the information! The program looks great!

They did say they require at least 30 credits of undergraduate courses taken in linguistics though, do you think that would a problem for me (since I have only taken one intro course in linguistics as an undergrad), or can I prove my basic knowledge in linguistics with my writing sample and such?

On 1/3/2018 at 8:30 AM, thevphone said:

Also, not speaking Dutch is not a problem at all, as the program is entirely in English and all the Dutchies speak English anyway!

Will I be able to navigate daily life (going grocery shopping, going to the supermarkets, finding housing etc) without knowing the Dutch language? 

[khigh]

8 minutes ago, Wugie said:

Thank you for the information! The program looks great!

They did say they require at least 30 credits of undergraduate courses taken in linguistics though, do you think that would a problem for me (since I have only taken one intro course in linguistics as an undergrad), or can I prove my basic knowledge in linguistics with my writing sample and such?

Will I be able to navigate daily life (going grocery shopping, going to the supermarkets, finding housing etc) without knowing the Dutch language? 

You would be able to go anywhere and do anything in the Netherlands in English, but older Dutchies will stare at you and make condescending remarks. I have spent many an afternoon on trips to A'dam sitting in a cafe off Museumplein with a group of old men talking about the horrors of American tourists that don't know how to speak Dutch or that the red lanes are BIKE lanes. TRY to learn some Dutch. It's really not that hard- almost like a mix of English and German.

Albert Heijn is the main grocery chain there and you will find Dutch food to actually be GOOD. Het is veel lekker! <--that is phrase you should know (that is tasty) as well as Doen normaal! (be normal). Leopard print is huge in the Netherlands and Primark and Hema are the best places to shop. I could go on and on about stroopwafels, bitterballen, oliebollen, hagelslag, and nieuwe haring if you need me to.

If you have questions about the Netherlands, I've traveled all over there- Utrecht, Amsterdam, Leiden, Den Haag, Nijmegen, Groningen, and Rotterdam. 

[WatchfulWombat]

7 minutes ago, khigh said:

Het is veel lekker! <--that is phrase you should know (that is tasty) as well as Doen normaal! (be normal).

I'm so sorry about this, but I can't help myself.

Het is heel lekker.

and

Doe normaal. (imperative ≠ infinitive)

Other than that, I agree that Dutch food is heel lekker. ;-)

[thevphone]

46 minutes ago, Wugie said:

They did say they require at least 30 credits of undergraduate courses taken in linguistics though, do you think that would a problem for me (since I have only taken one intro course in linguistics as an undergrad), or can I prove my basic knowledge in linguistics with my writing sample and such?

Mmmm I'm note sure about that, but you can always try writing to one of the coordinators (Jeannette Schaeffer for the 2-year program or Silke Hamann for the 1-year). 

As for not knowing Dutch, that is not a problem, as they said above  Amsterdam is a very international city and they are used to non-Dutch speakers! You will learn some phrases with time,  and you're assisted with all basic stuff at the beginning (housing, bank and phone). The only difficulty I found is the correspondence with the municipality, which is only in Dutch, but I always ask some of my Dutch classmates. 

A tip: housing is VERY difficult to find, and it can take months, so start early! 

Ah, I'm sorry guys, but Dutch food is just meh for me (except for fries, those are the best)! 

Edited January 18, 2018 by thevphone

[khigh]

32 minutes ago, WatchfulWombat said:

I'm so sorry about this, but I can't help myself.

Het is heel lekker.

and

Doe normaal. (imperative ≠ infinitive)

Other than that, I agree that Dutch food is heel lekker. ;-)

I've been working on my Italian lately and my 17th century Dutch is better than modern; I have problems still using hy instead of hij as one example. There's always room for improvement in language and now I feel like one of "those" Americans. Just means I need to get back to the Dutch! 

Edited January 18, 2018 by khigh

[khigh]

6 minutes ago, thevphone said:

Mmmm I'm note sure about that, but you can always try writing to one of the coordinators (Jeannette Schaeffer for the 2-year program or Silke Hamann for the 1-year). 

As for not knowing Dutch, that is not a problem, as they said above  Amsterdam is a very international city and they are used to non-Dutch speakers! You will learn some phrases with time,  and you're assisted with all basic stuff at the beginning (housing, bank and phone). The only difficulty I found is the correspondence with the municipality, which is only in Dutch, but I always ask some of my Dutch classmates. 

A tip: housing is VERY difficult to find, and it can take months, so start early! 

Ah, I'm sorry guys, but Dutch food is just meh for me (except for fries, those are the best)! 

I'm obsessed with "Real American Hotdogs" on Museumplein and frites met oorlog.  I also do like Nieuwe Haring, but I'm a fan of lutefisk too, so I don't know if I have real tastebuds, haha. 

[thevphone]

5 minutes ago, khigh said:

I'm obsessed with "Real American Hotdogs" on Museumplein and frites met oorlog.  I also do like Nieuwe Haring, but I'm a fan of lutefisk too, so I don't know if I have real tastebuds, haha.

Yeah ok, the street food is good! But I'm talking about what people eat everyday and the quality of products like meat and vegetables at the supermarket. That's kinda expensive and not super good. But I guess I'm Italian and have high standards. 

[khigh]

9 minutes ago, thevphone said:

Yeah ok, the street food is good! But I'm talking about what people eat everyday and the quality of products like meat and vegetables at the supermarket. That's kinda expensive and not super good. But I guess I'm Italian and have high standards. 

Best food I have ever had was street food in Rome. I may have gained 10  One of the first things I do when I go to a new European city is go to the grocery store, and you are right, there is no comparison between Italian and Dutch markets. There are something I love in the Dutch markets- Chocomel, Sinas Lite, the AH Branded Energy Drinks, Zout en Ei botterham. 

But, honestly, the best thing I have ever tasted was chestnuts I bought off a homeless guy in Rome roasted in a trashcan. The worst food I have ever had was in London, but that was coming off two weeks in Berlin, so everything tasted bland.