BeingThere

Got it. Your stats are certainly comparable to mine as far as GRE and GPA. But I'm in a different psych discipline. I don't know how it is with MA programs in Canada, but PhD programs here - all other things being similar - put the most emphasis on research interest fit with faculty. I take this to mean, for two candidates who both meet the minimum qualifications, they would just as likely accept the student with the lower GPA and GRE scores who is the better research fit rather than the student with the higher scores who does not fit as well with the faculty research. US schools also tend to value research experience and I think the same logic would apply for choosing between two candidates with comparable grades/GRE scores; the one with the better research experience would likely have the edge. Am I understanding correctly that in many programs in Canada, you are accepted into the master's program and then from the master's you go on into the PhD program? So research fit might be as important there as it is here. . .? Sadly, one's chances for any given application cycle seem to be contigent on the field of other applicants. And outside of folks posting here, there is no way to really gauge that.

Social_treehugger, I don't know about Canadian schools, but most US schools post admissions criteria on their program websites. (At least for I/O and clinical, they do.) Do they not have this information on the Canadian social psych program websites?

I have been contacting professors and a couple have replied back with "I don't know yet whether I'll be accepting new students". It looks like I'll be applying to some schools at which I will not be sure whether my POIs are taking new students. I was going to contact POIs in July but was told that some won't know their plans for the following year at that point. Glad I waited til August, but obviously I could have waited a bit longer for a couple of them. Has anyone else been experiencing this? I have been keeping the initial email short and to the point. Profs are busy people and surely get flooded with emails daily - especially now at the start of a new semester and with a flood of hopefuls emailing them about next year. Some replies have been more engaged and encouraging than others. I've decided to wait a couple weeks to resume emailing profs so that they can get their class rosters settled and hopefully get past the mania of the first rush of new students and start-of-semester meetings and events. Maybe by then, things will be clearer about funding or current student progress or whatever it is that determines the taking of new students. In the meantime, I'll continue with my assembly line of transcript requests, GRE score report requests, and applications. Three short months til the first deadlines!

Thanks for the input, Sdt13. Yes, making myself more marketable is my motive. I have learned multiple regression over the summer and feel pretty comfortable with much of it. I also got introduced to factor analysis, and with the math behind path analysis with the Li book. I know I will be using AMOS if I do path analysis. I had heard SAS is used, but that was just from one person. I suppose I should investigate what I/O doctoral programs tend to use the most. Anyone have info on this? I'm up for doing whatever will be most useful later on. So, if you suggest learning syntax in SPSS, then do you know of a good book for that? Or a good book for AMOS?

My undergrad program only teaches the basics of SPSS (point and click; not syntax.) I'd like to familiarize myself with SAS and AMOS in this last year of undergrad. Does anyone have suggestions for good books with which to learn SAS and AMOS?

You may also want to check on the APA division 23's website for information: http://apa.org/about/division/div23.aspx

Do you know if a PhD is the usual degree to enter that career path? I would go at it from that end first. Do a little recon on what kinds of degrees are held by the people who do what you want to do. Not sure why you would need more than a master's in marketing to do that kind of work. ???

I have a similar situation, Wildflower. My first two years GPA was probably around 3.6. But my last two years and my major GPA are 4.0. In reading the information on various programs' websites, it seems that some do put more weight on the last two years' GPA. However, that doesn't seem to be true for all schools. In talking with my advisor about how to couch the rough patch in my SOP, he said that it is better to stay focused on the positive. In other words, acknowledge the situation but don't dwell on it or go into long explanations. And frame it in terms of what has changed for the better (i.e. how you've grown/matured; how the situation has changed; how you figured something out and moved on, or whatever applies.) At least, this is what I was advised.

Well, I'm not an application veteran, but I can tell you that each school has their own price and process for transcripts. I, too, went to two other schools before my current one. I found the websites for the schools and looked for their respective transcript request processes. Each school listed the cost, request process, and the time it takes to get the transcripts sent. What I don't know yet is whether I can have my transcripts sent to schools before I open applications with them. I imagine this would be a school-specific thing as well? In another couple of weeks, I'll have the funds it's going to cost to open apps at all my schools. Then I will immediately request transcripts. Some of the programs I'm applying to require two copies of each transcript.

1) Which one of those is your Quantitative score? 2) It depends on the school/program to which you apply.

PsychGirl1, I do think you were the one to suggest it. And I have been considering it; I didn't discount it completely. Just had some doubts. Your experience probably should trump my doubt. And you make a good point that they don't have to look at it if they don't want to. Thanks for the further reassurance (via your experience.)

I think my two goals in initial contact are: 1)Tell them I am interested in pursuing research in their specific area/topic and maybe especially why I want to work with them (in one or two sentences - no more!) 2) Ask if they will be taking students next year. Someone on here suggested sending your CV along with that initial contact, but I don't know whether to do this or not. I am torn. I certainly wouldn't want to presume that they will take the time to read my CV; they have better things to do with their time and will have to suffer through stacks and stacks of CVs in December and January. Maybe others who've gone before have experience to share???

Not yet. That is on my list for the beginning of next week.

Looks like our research interests are somewhat different. :-) Beier and Motowidlo at Rice; Jagacinski at Purdue; and Spector and Borman at USF.

Hi PhDplease, If I may ask, who are your POIs at USF, Purdue, and Rice? You could send me a private message if you don't want to post them on here. Thanks!

From what I have read on program websites, going in to a PhD program with a master's does not mean that you get credit for all the coursework you did for a master's. I don't know how PhD programs look at the BA+MA versus a full MA after a bachelor's. I do see some reputable schools offer the 5-year BA to master's so I would assume it is legit. Though I don't know how those 5-year programs are set up. I would want to know what the coursework looked like and whether there was some sort of qualifying exams or a thesis. You would have to keep in mind what PhD programs are really looking for. They are looking for folks with some background in psychology, high grades, above average GRE scores (at least), research experience (the more the better), presentation experience, outstanding letters of recommendation, and a good fit with their faculty research interests. The other thing that getting an advanced degree does for you is set you up with career connections. Being in too much of a hurry to speed through a master's might hinder your opportunities to get good research experience and make solid career connections, which would in turn possibly hinder your job prospects post graduating.

I haven't heard any any downside to taking an extra year for your undergrad - as long as it's not to fluff up your GPA. A double major in comm and psych would probably be looked on favorably for I/O psychology. Not sure about clinical. If you are worried about spending the next decade in school, then I suggest you consider a master's degree in I/O. The job market is decent for folks with this degree. If you seriously are considering I/O, then I say drop the comm and go for it. The job market is probably as strong for I/O as it is for comm. But don't take my word for it. Go to O*net and research what the next few years will look like in both fields. Final consideration: if you can get two years of undergrad research experience in psych now at your current school, you would be adequately prepared to apply for master's programs in I/O right out of undergrad.

Kareen, Are you familiar with SIOP? You can search through I/O programs here: http://www.siop.org/gtp/gtplookup.asp I have read on many program websites that GPA is only one of the many factors considered. The difficulty of your coursework (e.g. organic chemistry versus basket-weaving) is sometimes considered with GPA. If you have read through programs' websites, I'm sure you've seen that some schools give more consideration to the last 60 hours of GPA. If you rock the GRE and have great references and research experience, then you could still be in the running for many PhD programs. You should spend some time figuring out what your research interests are and then look for schools with faculty that have similar interests or are doing research you'd like to be a part of. Research fit is a huge factor in whether you would be accepted, even if you had stellar grades and every other factor working in your favor. You might want to consider also applying to some master's programs as they are usually a bit less competitive than PhD programs. Many students get a master's first and then apply to PhD programs from there. You can search for master's programs or PhD programs through the link above.

Personally, I use all three lifelines (phone a friend, ask the audience, and 50/50 - hopefully someone gets the reference.) Depending on how many respond, posting a question on here can be either like phoning a friend or asking the audience. The difference between this and Who Wants to Be a Millionaire is not in the quality of the responses. It's in the quality of the questions. I think most of us know that, unlike the gameshow, we are asking questions that don't have absolute definitive answers that hold true under all circumstances. In some ways it's like asking, "Does this hairstyle make me look old?" We want reassurance. We wouldn't even be applying if we absolutely didn't think we had a snowball's chance in the Mojave. I consider the Chance Me questions as more of an attempt to gauge what other peoples' qualifications are without coming right out and saying, "I'll show you mine if you show me yours." There is nothing wrong with that at all. In fact, I would love everyone to just state their qualifications so I can get a good idea of a sample of the population I'll be competing in. But that is because I personally find hope to be a tyrant. Coming from an undergrad institution that doesn't have a PhD program, and working with faculty that are years out from their experiences in grad school, I don't have the opportunity to walk down the hall and ask a professor if they would take someone like me on as a grad student. I read the websites of the programs I'm interested in. In the next couple of weeks, I'll email the POIs. And in the meantime, I'll check in here to get reassurance, camaraderie, and a be encouraged by the reminder that even though there will always be star players, the playing field is probably pretty even.

I just read an article about the predictive value of standardized tests on grad school success. While it may be true that most schools don't ask for, and presumably don't care about, the Subject test, Kuncel and Hezlett (2007) found that the Subject GRE tests had stronger correlations than the general GRE with such outcomes as degree completion, research productivity, graduate GPA, first year graduate GPA, and qualifying exams. This study was a meta-analysis examining data from a wide range of fields so the data probably includes all the GRE subject tests under the single variable of GRE-S. It's likely that not all subject test are created equal. It's possible that grasping the breadth of subject content in some fields matters more than it does in psychology. However, in looking over the content areas of the other GRE subject tests as listed on the ETS website -- and admitting that I know very little about any of the other fields -- my guess is that biochemistry is the most unified in content applicable to grad studies. The rest of the subject tests look about as diverse in scope of their respective fields as the psychology test is. The subject tests may be tapping cognitive ability (or semantic memory, at least) as well as interest in the field in general. Greater general interest may translate to greater motivation to achieve. I just thought the meta-analysis was interesting. Kuncel, N.R., & Hezlett, S.A. (2007). Standardized tests predict graduate students' success. Science, 315(5815),1080-1081.

I am wondering if there is a qualitative difference (for purposes of assessment by an admissions committee) in independent research (Honors thesis or independent research project where the student is the PI) versus working in a lab or working as a research assistant on a project initiated and headed by a professor or graduate student. I've got four independent research projects (three completed, one in progress) and one semester as a research assistant for a professor in which I conducted a literature review. My independent projects have led to posters, presentations, and one is being written up to be submitted for publication. Will the fact that I haven't worked on larger or "more important" research projects with faculty be considered a negative, even though I have a good amount of independent research? Do admissions committees give more weight to one type of research experience than another?

That sounds like a tough spot to be in. I certainly do not mean to rub it in, but did you not know all of those things (about job prospects, etc.) before you accepted the master's program? There is a wealth of information on things like that here in the states that applicants can look up before they even apply to a program. Maybe it's not so available in Canada - I don't know. Sounds like a tricky situation to navigate, but I don't imagine you are the first person to change their mind once they get in a grad program. If you did not get into any I/O programs, you could always try to get a couple of year's work experience in a human resources or related field or a lab assistant job. If you are young (in your early 20's?) you have more time than you feel like you have.

I don't know how it works in Canada, but in the U.S. it is my understanding that if you are accepted into a master's program, you would usually still have to apply to get into the PhD program at the same school. Is your issue with your current program something you can talk out with your current professor? Maybe you both can come to a consensus about what your next step should be. (Maybe you will even get his/her blessing and full support for you switching programs?) It might at least be worth opening up the conversation. If you are truly gravitating more toward I/O topics, maybe you could let that interest be known. A good professor might see that it's also in his/her interest to not hold back a student who has other stronger interests. However, if you just think you should have chosen the I/O program because there are things you don't like about your current program, then I am not sure how best to handle that. And I agree that if you apply to PhD programs you should definitely apply to many more than one. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

Some of the websites for the programs I am applying to specifically ask applicants to submit their apps as far before the deadline as they can. They say things such as "Do not wait until the deadline to submit your application," or "You should submit your application six weeks before the deadline." Then there is the dreaded, "Submitting your application on the deadline date could delay review of your application." All I can recommend is carefully reviewing the application procedures on each program's website to see if there are nudges such as these. I am aiming to have all my material together to submit everywhere in about the middle of October. I'm giving my referees a requested deadline date of Nov. 1. About half of my programs have Jan deadlines. It's not conscientiousness on my part as much as it is stress and wanting to be done with it all as soon as possible!

Thanks, Clarkboyo. I think that I am within the score range of all my programs, but for my top choices, I am below the average. That bothers me. But what bothers me more is the thought that I could do better on the math with more study and practice. (I did not study for the verbal at all; I knew I would do well with that.) I had set aside four months in which to study (March - June). Not to make excuses, but due to unforeseen circumstances beyond my control, I didn't use all that time. I studied for the math here and there over the course of those first three months, but I wasn't regular enough about it (maybe an hour a week.) I only got to really get down and prep regularly in the last month. In that period of time, I prepped about two to three hours a week. I needed to do that for another two months. More hours per week would of course be great, but I did not have it. I used the Manhattan books (the Quantitative Comparison and Word Problems volumes), which, aside from a couple of disconcerting typos (!), were very helpful. The ETS practice book was good too. A couple of my actual math problems were identical in structure to the practice problems in the ETS book. You get access to five online practice tests with either of those Manhattan volumes. I would highly suggest taking all the practice tests over the course of your prep. I only took two so far. I'm going to take Mewtoo's suggestion. I'm continuing to prep, and if my timed practice scores are better than my last test score, I'll take the test again at the end of August or beginning of September. I am comfortable that I can do as well on the verbal again, so I have only the math to focus on. For what it's worth, there probably is no ideal number of hours/week or number of months. I am probably much farther away from my last high school or college math class than you are. Also, natural math ability is a factor in how much prep time you need. At any rate, you probably cannot prep too much. If you're unsure, and if you have the time in your schedule (and you don't get flooded out of your apartment or overrun by locusts), then go with the larger amount of prep time.