Yetanotherdegree

It sounds to me like you do not have all of the information that you need to make a decision. Can you wait until next Monday (April 1) and then follow up by phone with the other programs? If you let them know about your circumstances and the need to make a decision by April 4, they may be able to tell you what you need to know. For now, which program is your first choice? How important is funding? What will you decide if you get in everywhere but the only $ is the 25% from BC? That's a real possibility because most ThM programs are not funded. does the money change your decision? Or is 25% tuition not enough to make a difference? In which case, where do you want to go? And if money is an issue, which degrees cost less overall? Including cost of living in the area as well as tuition and other costs/opportunities. I think BC and BU are both good schools, Duke is top-tier but does not fund ThMs at all. If you're looking for future possibilities and doctoral options, then pick the best school that you can. Good luck.

I've been looking at the course list for next fall and there are more courses that I want to take than hours in which to take them Anyway, assuming that the courses themselves are interesting and relevant, what sorts of courses lead to better or worse references for someone who plans on applying for doctoral programs in the fall? Is it better to take courses with more senior faculty? Does the level matter (assuming it's not an introductory course?) And are some courses more or less helpful for this? There are so many great choices!

You're looking at three different degrees. If you have any interest in possible ordination at a future, maybe-one-day point, take the MDiv. It's best to just get it over with now and have the possibility in place if it might be a real possibility. They are all good institutions, and your education and opportunities coming out of them will all be fine. The money is a big deal. The less you will end up owing, the better. If I were you, I would 1) think seriously at the MDiv/ordination piece and decide if that is important, and 2) crunch the numbers (once you hear from duke) and figure out how much you'll owe at the end of the degree.

I don't know about the specific programs you're asking about, but the information will be available on their website. If you can't find it tonight, they will tell you tomorrow if you call. As for funding, I have never heard of deferred scholarships and fellowships. If the money is offered one year, the offer is good for that year only. If you defer and still want the cash, you need to reapply.

I know quite a few people with MTS degrees. A significant number work in church settings, but not in ordained ministry, think educators, administrators, regional or national positions within their denomination. Another group work for Christian schools, as teachers or administrators, and a third group do something utterly unrelated to the degree. It is not a typical route into government or counter-terrorism. If that's what you really want to do, look into a degree in middle eastern studies or international relations or similar. Not an MTS.

It can't hurt to follow up. When you interviewed with them, was there anything in your conversation that might have indicated which degree they were considering you for? In other words, do you think they interviewed you for the wrong degree?

I'm sorry to hear that.

I expect to hear back from my application in about a week. I'm not checking my email any more than usual, but I am starting to look expecting that maybe there will be something in there re my application. I'm also logging in to the website every day to see of there's any change to the "thanks for applying, we'll review your application soon" message So, how am I likely to find out? Is checking the website any help at all? Or should I just sit back and wait for a call or email? How did you find out?

I think you can call now. Let them know that you're calling because a friend has already heard and you're wondering if they have made a decision on your application yet. I would call. There's no sense in waiting and torturing yourself when a brief phone call will let you know what's up. Good luck.

Congratulations. I don't think you need to contact your POI until you get there. You're enrolling in a two year basic masters program, not an advanced degree. You don't need a specific POI to potentially advise on a dissertation or even to supervise a thesis in September for you. If you're really excited, send off a quick introductory email and let them know how excited you are about the program and their courses. That's all you need to do. They'll have plenty of time to get to know you once classes start. If you have specific and relevant questions that need answering now, then by all means, ask. But if it's just to connect, then that can wait until September.

I'm a Canadian, now in the US. I did my first two degrees (BA and MDiv) at the University of Toronto/Toronto School of Theology. The tuition is lower there AND there was a ton of money for students so I left with only minimal debt from my MDiv (and I went in with not-stellar grades.) If you're worried about debt and $, then you should look closer to home for now, if someone will pay you to go to school for a PhD or similar, then by all means, branch out. But the debts I see here vs those of people I went to school with, well you wouldn't want the American option if you could have the Canadian. So no, 50K (and it will end up costing more) for a 2-year MTS or similar just isn't worth it. Find another way, either by taking another year to strengthen your application and then reapplying in the hopes of $, or by applying to somewhere cheaper with more money for students (TST? VST?)

It's to differentiate between the div school's academic doctorate and the more secular departments. There may be in-house politics that affect which schools can grant which degrees, but the basic reason for it is simply to indicate where in the broader academic institution the degree came from. It's not complicated, just annoying.

A ThD is offered through a divinity school, a PhD through a department of religion. The ThD allows the divinity school to offer and administer its own academic doctorate and is often more appealing to people whose background is ministry and/or divinity school. They also have separate funding and sometimes slightly different ideas about the relevance of ministry or faith in the academic process, even if the committees are made up of the same people. I can see why a divinity faculty would want to offer their own academic doctorate. I think perhaps they just need to own up to the fact that it's basically interchangeable with the PhD and call it that instead of a ThD...

Wow, thanks everyone! These answers are incredibly helpful. For the French, the internship I did was an MDiv summer placement in West Africa, in a country where very little English was spoken. I taught confirmation classes, led bible studies, preached and socialized in French for three+ months. I guess I'll just make sure my application spells this out clearly and then take any exams they offer. I'm not going to worry about it too much for now. I also did a couple of courses of German as an undergraduate, and I guess I can state that in my application. Modern languages = fine. I know I need more Greek and Latin. I'm pretty sure I need Latin first and I have Wheelock's Latin text sitting beside me right now. I guess it's time to get started. I may scrounge up the $ for the summer course if I can find it, and I'll aim to take a Latin reading course in September. And I'll ask about the Greek. I might be able to find another summer intensive, which would at least get me some history/credit before September. Thanks, everyone!

So most doctoral programs seem to require 2 modern languages, plus appropriate ancient languages depending on area. I understand that you need one modern language going in, and that they like to see evidence of courses or achievement in the languages. I have also heard (from a faculty member) that it's better to have actual credits than to just learn a language on your own, even if the end result is the same. How did you prep for the language requirements? And is there any way to "prove" fluency if it's not on a transcript somewhere? I have two small issues. I have near-native fluency in French, having graduated from a French immersion high school. I also completed an internship in a francophone country, but I have never taken a university-level course. I speak French better than most, but I'm not sure how I show this in my application. Any ideas? My other issue is ancient languages. I need them. For my proposed course of study, it seems I need Greek and Latin. I anticipate applying for doctoral programs next fall and the year following. I can either 1) work my way through introductory Greek or Latin between now and September and then ask for permission to take an intermediate level reading course as part of my ThM studies, 2) sign up for introductory Latin parts 1 and 2 this summer at a local college, not the same place as the ThM, or 3) do the introductory courses as part of the ThM. 3) seems like a waste of ThM time (and a potential challenge for my GPA!), 2 is going to cost $2k+ that I didn't budget for (and it's going to mess with a prearranged family vacation), and 1) only allows me to get one language out of the way, although it is probably the best plan. So what would you do if you wanted some evidence of languages before applying for a doctoral program in historical theology with a focus on late antiquity/early medieval Christianity? And which should I focus on first, Greek or Latin? What have you done to prepare for the language component of a PhD/ThD application?

Right. The degrees are basically the same. But you can use a PhD at a faculty of religion or a div school and nobody will question your qualifications. A ThD works fine at a divinity school or seminary but may be seen as "too religious" for the more secular departments of religion. I think a PhD is just slightly more mainstream and therefore slightly more useful for those who might be interested in secular institutions.

Depends.. What's your denomination? Plans re ordination etc? What culture is a better fit? And how does the $$$ work out? (I know there's no funding, not sure what the overall costs are for either place, if one is significantly cheaper for you, that's worth considering) what areas are you most interested in studying, are there specific people you want to work with and/or a faculty "fit" that works for you? Do you have friends or family in either place? And where do you want to go? Do you feel more drawn or called to one place? All else being equal, pick Duke. Weather's better. Good luck deciding.

Have you read this? http://www.andyrowell.net/andy_rowell/2009/03/advice-about-duke-thd-and-phd-programs-in-theology.html I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I'm planning on applying to one ThD and about 4 PhD programs next year. I think the ThD is a good program for me as I anticipate that most of my future work will be in Christian institutions. I am limited in where I can apply due to spouse and family obligations, so I'm choosing programs within a certain area. If I were to get into both the ThD and the PhD at the one really excellent institution in my location, I would probably pick the PhD, all other things being equal. But a top-tier ThD is better than a second-rate PhD... I'm interested to see the responses here.

Thanks for your answer. In January, as I was deciding to apply, I thought I had a pretty strong application. Now that it's in and out of my hands, I've convinced myself that it's a disaster. Which I suppose says more about how I handle stress than my actual application

My ThM application is in and I expect to hear back in a couple of weeks. Now that it's out of my hands, I'm starting to second-guess my chances. I meet or exceed all of the published admissions requirements for the degree, including having an MDiv GPA well above the program's published minimum. If a program lists a series of requirements for admission and does not fund applicants, do applicants who meet or exceed the admission requirements usually get in?

Thanks everyone. I gues it's time for me to start to think about studying!

I know I could post this on the GRE board, but I'm interested specifically in GRE scores etc for our academic area. How did you do on the GRE test? Did you want or need to retake? Where your scores high enough for your program? And how did you prep? Any tips for someone planning on taking the GRE this summer? Thanks for any info!

The vast majority of doctoral programs do not allow deferred admission. Probably because people will do exactly what you're suggesting, which ties up places for other candidates and messes with the delicate balance of areas and POIs.

Well doesn't it depend on the circumstances and the reason for your rejection? I mean if you only apply to a couple of really excellent programs, should you give up on the whole idea even though a lower ranked school might really want you? Or what if your first choices just aren't a fit? We've seen enough posts on here that suggest that one school's top candidate might be another school's first-round rejection. On the other hand, if after several tries, it's just not working out the way you hope, then perhaps it's time to move on... Honestly, I'll be shocked if I don't get into my program of choice for this September. But in November, I plan to apply for the doctoral program, and I expect that I will be rejected the first year I try. I also expect that I will be told to reapply and that I will probably get in the following year. Why? Because a few more classes (current references!) and an opportunity to write and maybe even publish will push my application from ok to excellent. I'm going to apply even though it's a long shot because I want the experience of the application process and I want my name on the radar for the doctoral program. As I've said before, I can't move for school so my options depend on one institution. Should I not apply for the doctoral program x2 just because my first (weaker) application is likely to get rejected?

What's the plan for September if you don't get in? Do you have options or schools that you know you can attend, just maybe not first or second choice? Or do you have an alternate plan? Will you reapply next year? Or move on? I don't really have any other academic options. I live where I live for family reasons and can't just pick up and move for another degree. I guess if I don't get in, I'll take a course as a special student and try again next year.