Thanks4Downvoting

I'm going to be working on this during the summer, and I hope to have a good score.
I'm also going to be working on my SOP during the summer. They're all different programs, but they are all programs that appeal to me in one or more of their foci.

Appreciate the reply, Febronia, and congrats on your acceptances! You were an HDS MDiv'er right?




Yeah, I know my languages probably aren't in perfect condition right now, but I also feel like my proficiencies in Medieval Latin are standout quality for Undergrads, so I hope that those proficiencies overshadow my lack of Greek/Research languages coming out of undergrad.

Thanks for the advice about keeping the GPA up, and the GRE. I'll be working on the GRE this summer, and hope to come away with a score I want to send out to programs, even ones that don't require it.

My SOPs should be pretty much complete by the end of summer, and as far as my LORs, my pastor will write me an outstanding one!

Thanks for your help!

Dude, my application to M* programs was about 1/3 the quality of yours, and I got in everywhere I applied. You'll be fine.

The biggest thing "missing" I can see is a scholarship language. German or French; which one doesn't particularly matter for admissions purposes.

Most places let you submit up to 4 LORs, so I wouldn't stress too much about who to ask yet. Just make sure you get your LOR writers in line early. One thing you might want to keep in mind is that some MDiv programs prefer one of your recommendations come from a pastor. I don't know if that's in addition to academic ones, though, or a substitute for one of them.

For PhD applications, I would make sure that you used Latin (or another primary source language, or at the very least a secondary source in another language) in your writing sample--every school I contacted specifically said they wanted to see this. However, recalling the writing sample I submitted to MA/MTS programs, there was not an ounce of anything but English in it, and I did fine.

Start your SOPs early, over the summer, even. Have at least one person look over each draft of all of them.

Keep your grades up, including next spring! Undergrad GPA matters for PhD admissions, too--a 4.0 or near-4.0 graduate GPA is sort of expected, so schools look to UGPA again. No senioritis for undergrad religion PhD hopefuls, unfortunately. You can get 'masteritis' after your Ph.D acceptance.

Good luck and blessings! It's intimidating, but exciting. And most importantly: it is SO, SO WORTH IT.

Your chances are very good, but obviously there are no certainties in this game....

Areas to improve?

GRE. Harvard might be the only program you're applying to that requires it, but at most others you can choose to submit it, and if you score well then it's a good plan to do so. This is worth spending some time on, because scores are good for 5 years, and there is much to be said for not having to retake it again later.....!

Languages. Honestly, Latin is probably sufficient to be admitted....I applied to M.Div. programs with hardly any language background...but I would start another language (Greek or German or French) in the fall if you can. It not only looks good, but it will save you trouble down the road....!

If anything, more ministry experience would probably help you, but I don't think it's essential, and I'm not sure what to recommend.

Probably the most important thing will be to really spend some time with your statements of purpose. You're applying to some very different programs, which is fine, but you'll probably want to be crafting quite different statements of purpose for them, rather than a generic one with a "fit paragraph".

Yeah, I remember you talking specifically about the program's flexibility, which really interests me in preparing for my PhD.

Chicago is NOT a cheap place to live. If you live there already and are not paying rent, you could get away with the budget you're proposing. All the same, if it's $22k per year, that's $44k over two years, and I don't know anyone who can survive on $3k a year (based on your estimate of $50k total debt, or even $8k, based on your calculation of $60k) in Chicago. Please remember that you have to factor in things like insurance and food, as well as transportation. I got into UChicago a couple of years ago, and declined the offer. I calculated that it would cost about $100k for the degree (AM). Thankfully I had a good offer at Boston College, so it made the decision easier. I grant that there are lots of great folks at UChicago, but as with everything else, it depends on what you're looking for. It might be wise to see if you could get in touch with students who are currently in the program to see what their budget is like (most students get 50% tuition). Best of luck in your discernment!

P.S. Most of my friends have been devoting about $20k to living expenses (rent, utilities, insurance, transportation, food, books) in Boston, and I'd imagine that the figure would be somewhat similar in Chicago (I lived there for four years, and it's slightly less expensive there, depending on where you live).

Generally, language requirements for Ph.D HT are: Latin, ancient Greek, modern French, modern German.

The rule is that you have to be proficient in those by the time you pass comps, NOT by the time you enter the program. However, it is not a good idea to *start* a Ph.D with zero languages. Most people can knock off 1-2 tests immediately.

If your specific focus lends itself to a substitution, you are often allowed to make one (that is, "one" the number; 2 subs is rare)--if you study liberation theology, for example, swapping Spanish for German or French. BUT in other cases you might just have to add. If I stay with HT, I will have to add Italian, but will be able to swap MIddle High German for Greek. So I'll wind up having to pass 5 proficiency tests.

THis is how the profs at my current school explained it to me. We're typical for HT.

ETA: Proficiency tests

Generally, of two types. In one type, you pick an article/text in another language, give X pages to the department; they give you back a few of those pages to translate. In the other type, the department picks a short text (like, a page or so) and you translate it, sight unseen. It's not as bad as you're probably thinking--your Latin does not have to be perfect to pass the Latin proficiency, in other words.

I always call people Dr. LastName in correspondence until explicitly told not to. In fact, I think most of my MA calling my advisor Dr.LastName in emails, even though I called her FirstName in person. But maybe I'm just weird/overly formal.

And like this <poof> he was gone.

Your results may vary.

My advice: end it with Fin.

Looks like it was a pretty active month for the forum.

Looks like Chicago to me.

Well....I actually did an M.Phil. in ecumenical studies before the M.Div., which is pretty much equivalent to an MA. That's pretty unusual, though.

Applying to both and weighing your options is never a bad thing, but I think I would still probably recommend the M.Div. first if you are sure you want an M.Div. at some point. Most M.Div. programs require a certain amount of introductory coursework, which you would probably find frustrating if you had a previous master's degree in a related area. (I must confess that I certainly did....) And you would most likely need the M.Div. since you want to be ordained, whereas with the MA, it might be best to wait and see whether you felt the M.Div. had given you sufficient preparation in early Christianity or if you still wanted more.

I think your best bet would be a very flexible M.Div. program. Some programs have so many requirements that you don't have many electives, but other programs (such as Harvard, where I am currently an M.Div. student) are much more flexible. If you go in with a clear focus and choose your electives accordingly, you can still end up with very solid and extensive preparation in early Christianity through the M.Div. Most programs will require a certain amount of coursework in that area anyway, in addition to theology.

Now, admittedly, I am quite possibly the strangest M.Div. student ever, focusing on Syriac Christianity, with smaller amounts of Coptic, Armenian, and Byzantine stuff, and I haven't taken any ministry related classes beyond the required ones. But you wouldn't have to go to that extreme (!), and could still put together an M.Div. program that was very focused in a particular area.

I'm not actually convinced that the MA would have you on a better track for the PhD. It looks like their program is normally only 1 year, and while you can stretch it out to 2 years, it's only by going part time. One year is not very long to prepare for doctoral programs. You would need to be applying during your very first semester of the program! Also, while their website doesn't say this (based on a brief glance, anyway), my suspicion would be that there would be more financial aid available through the divinity school, since departments of religion very often reserve most of their money for their doctoral students. Even with the six introductory courses, since the MTS prorgam is 2 years long you would still get to take more non-introductory courses than you would in the MA, and if you're able to opt out of some of them, so much the better! And a two year program would give you more time to get to know faculty and a full year's worth of grades at the graduate level by the time you are applying for doctoral programs, both of which would certainly be a great help...

I wish you the best!