MsDarjeeling

Perhaps instead of saying you had a medical condition you could just say that you had to take a few semesters off for personal reasons, but was able to return in 2009 and finished strong. I think adcoms get that personal reasons could mean medical condition, mental illness, death in family, rehab, etc. My guess is they wouldn't probe for specific detail in an interview, but focus more on the fact that you finished and got a good amount of research experience. Also it needs to be tied in better. I agree that it makes sense to briefly explain those gaps, but it is literally dropped in out of nowhere and isn't connected to anything else. Maybe something like: "As an undergraduate, I dealt with a medical condition that made school a challenge and resulted in having to take several semesters off to seek treatment. Despite this hardship, I kept coming back and by the fall of 2009 was healthy enough to return to focus exclusively on my studies." In fact, I was doing so well that I took the opportunity to gain research experience by working with "Dr. N at [my undergrad university]. It was in assisting her with a literature review on the stigma of mental illness among adolescents that in part roused my interest in clinical research topics. In my final year as an undergraduate, I completed a senior thesis in which I examined how public perceptions of eating disorders differ according to the etiological factors attributed to them, particularly prior traumatic experiences. The paper was published in my university’s undergraduate research journal. It was an edifying experience in seeing an entire project through from start to finish, and it got me thinking about psychological trauma as a research area." You would still need to better connect it to the intro paragraph.

I don't know if this kind of transition is harder, but I do think you'll have to use your SOP to indicate that you understand the difference between counseling and clinical and highlight your research training. Also explain why you're making this transition in addition to how you're prepared.

Also, won't you have to turn in transcripts for all of the universities you've attended? So not mentioning one of your Master's and then turning in a transcript for it would be odd.

LOL!

Ahh well if you want to use a pencil for working on your scratch paper then I still recommend you bring your own for the same reason I mentioned before.

Wow those are very unfortunate responses from your advisors, but I can't say I'm surprised. Also, I'm not sure telling them that other schools work harder to get students out in 3 years is the right argument. I'm not sure they care what other schools are doing in that regard when ultimately it is up to you to design and follow your degree plan (I'm not saying you didn't, but that's likely their perspective). A sense of when classes are normally offered can be determined from past course schedules and communicating with the department/other students, however things are subject to change and it is up to each student to have a back up plan. The way my school (which I've decided not to name) presents it is that "the program is designed so that finishing in 3 years is possible" and they have stats on students who did or didn't. They don't guarantee that each student will do that, nor do they guarantee there will never be overlapping classes. They don't even mention upfront that independent study or comparable classes are an option, the student has to do their own legwork (begging) to make that an option. The departments don't have to work together at all, but most often they do. If graduating in 3 years is what you want then you need to fight for that opportunity. It won't be easy with departments that don't want to work together either, but their responses to you scream "this is your problem, deal with it." So what could you do? First stop complaining about how unfair this all is and how you feel victimized because that's not getting you anywhere. Second stop complaining about the 2 departments not working together, that clearly isn't the culture of this dual degree option and you're not going to change that. Does it suck? Sure, but again complaining is just wasting energy. So possible solutions? Independent study may work if you're given permission. Now at my school it works like this: If a student goes to the dean of the department and asks to do an independent study they're told no and to take the class the next time around. If the student first finds (begs) a professor to supervise an independent study, gets the professor to design a syllabus and create a tentative meeting schedule, finds out what paperwork is needed and fills it out all but dean signature, and THEN goes to the dean the answer is yes. It would work similarly if a student in this case found a comparable class on their own campus or at a nearby university. They would have to do all the legwork to research that comparable class, figure out the transfer of credit process, get the syllabus of the comparable class and the one for the class they need for comparison, and then present it to the dean for review. If the answer is yes, then it is still up to the student to continue doing all the legwork to make sure that credit is transferred and all paperwork is handled. I'm not aware of other options, but perhaps others will chime in. Also you need to get on board with the possibility that even after all this legwork trying to solve your own problem the dean will veto everything. If that happens you won't have a choice but to stay another year and you'll have to be ok with that.

I second that not getting in the first time around doesn't make you a failure. Professors know this and sometimes have words of wisdom to help you. Now you need another letter. I would schedule a meeting with this professor and do the following: thank them for the previous letter, state that you didn't get in, explain what you've been doing since then to improve your chances this time, explain how/why you decided to switch fields, and explain how another letter from her will help you this time. Be prepared for her answer to go either way considering that you don't know her well and that you're switching fields.

If you're taking the paper test you should bring your own. The test centers do provide them (and sharpeners), but they're not always brand new pencils. Why sit there staring at someones nasty teeth marks on a used pencil when you could have your own nice clean one?

My school offers a few dual Master's options and they are all designed to be completed in 3 years. The departments try to work together so that classes don't overlap, but every blue moon a student ends up in your situation. When that happens they will find a professor to conduct one of the classes as an independent study. The trick is that student has to request (or rather beg) for that. I have only heard of one instance where a student in this situation and pushing for independent study could not be accommodated. There just wasn't a qualified faculty member able to conduct it. So instead that student was given special permission to take a comparable course and a notation was made on their transcripts. Have you talked with your advisors about either of these options? It just seems a shame to give up and accept a 4th year when there might be an alternative.

Sounds advice from Lisa, and yes the rules for failing out are different at each school. In my current program if you get a C+ or lower you are expelled and there is no academic probation. There is an appeals process and winning means having to repeat the class you failed and understanding that if you receive another failing grade in any class the appeals process will not be available to you.

Whether the amount of volunteering is enough, I can't say. What I do think is relevant is that the experience is diverse. My friends in Counseling programs talk about how the need to work with diverse populations is hammered into them and those who didn't do that prior to starting grad school wish they had. You're working with different ages/socioeconomic statuses and very delicate issues. All of that is a selling point. I also think it is a selling point that one project lasted 7 years. How many people would spend 7 years of their lives doing something for free? I'm sure you can answer that when you think about who was volunteering alongside you and what your friends were doing while you were faithfully going to that project. I think you can express (if it's true) how your dedication to that project and your studies encouraged you to do more. The desire to do more led you to the newer projects that you're thriving in. All of them will help you decide which populations you do and do not want to work with. Also consider how volunteering will help you in the job market and not just with graduate school aspirations. I have done a lot of volunteering within diverse populations myself (my goal is Clinical Psychology) and have a 1 year project, a 2 year project, a 3.5 year and still going project, a 3 year and still going project, and a 2 month and still going project. When I apply for jobs often times my volunteer experience is used for references and at times it has launched me straight to the interview stage because employers found it so impressive. Projects I've continued are ones I love and have led me to my research interests. Projects I ended I learned from, but ultimately decided those populations weren't for me.

I think philstudent brings up some good points as to why they may ask this. Regardless I don't think it is any of their business and I would be more concerned about them assuming their school is a "safety" and I'm not really serious about attending there. On my apps (I'm in Psychology) the question wasn't mandatory so I didn't answer it. If it were mandatory I would probably just list one other school that was comparable to theirs that I had applied to instead of telling them everywhere.

The others have given you great advice so I'll direct most of my comments to the bolded statement. Ok so you know what you want to do, which is a huge step. Yes there are several routes to get you there. You know you don't want to do research so a PhD, while perhaps cost effective, will make you miserable. If you're miserable you're more likely to drop out and what will you do with half a degree? You can't just transfer those classes to another program and what you did complete may not translate to a Master's degree that would help you do what you want to do. I agree that you shouldn't waste money applying to schools you wouldn't get into. It would also be a waste of money to apply to PhD programs, when research isn't what you want to do. I heavily researched PhD and PsyD options and I agree the cost of a PsyD is a huge turn off because they aren't funded. After talking with a number of current students and professors I learned that some (I was looking primarily in California, so other states may differ) of the PsyD programs are designed so that you get your MFT/LPC/LCSW/MSW (which they work toward depends on the program) on the way. Their logic is with that you can be working part time and making much more than minimum wage while you finish the PsyD. Also if for any reason you decide not to finish the PsyD you can exit with your Master's level license and move on to a decent career. So if you don't find a PsyD program that is designed in this manner you could instead just enter a Master's only program for the MFT/LPC/LCSW/MSW, whichever you decide is the best fit for you. A number of Master's only programs are designed for working adults so you could work your way through and borrow less. Or understand that borrowing 2-3 years worth of tuition is far cheaper than 5-6 years of tuition. You may also be able to participate in a program that offers partial loan forgiveness in exchange for you working with a certain population or for a certain organization (we have programs like this in California, but other states may differ). Then if after that you want more you can go for the PsyD.

I took a lot of time off between undergrad and my Master's program and used it to explore a number of options in Psychology. Then I started to gain more interest in research, largely because I was asking my own questions and frustrated that I either couldn't find the answers or the answers I did find weren't enough. I have been using my Master's program to explore further and can't wait for even more. I don't want to wait for someone else to find my questions interesting and run with them, I'd rather get my own answers and share that information with everyone. Recently I went to a panel discussion led by a handful of PhD/PsyD Psychologists and an audience member asked how you know a PhD is right for you and what the workload is like. A member of the panel said something like this: PhD students on average work about 60hrs a week. At any given moment you're juggling at least 3 research projects which likely include you helping a professor with their work, your own independent project that may or may not relate to your thesis/dissertation, and you helping an upper level student or other professor with their work. We also expect you to publish and present so you're constantly submitting/revising manuscripts, preparing posters, and applying for grants. On top of that you're taking at least 2 courses and are expected to get a 4.0 and you're TAing and expected to conduct study sessions and hold office hours to help undergrads. So all of that is about 60hrs a week and if it doesn't sound amazing to you then you're in the wrong place. There are plenty of options at the Master's level that will allow you to make a decent living, love what you do, and have a more manageable work load. Now mind you as she was talking I was on the edge of my seat bursting with excitement over how great all that sounded. That is a good indicator a PhD is something I'll enjoy doing. Another thing I've observed when researching PhD programs is how much the students are doing things outside of the requirements of the program. They may do interdisciplinary research just because it interests them or for added experience. They may join a reading group that meets regularly to discuss recently published research. If in Clinical or Counseling Psych they may take on additional practicum hours. They may design a "minor" to have an additional specialization. Those with Master's degree's may teach a class at a community college for additional experience (and extra money). Some serve on academic or professional committees. They attend conferences not just to present, but also to network and learn what others are doing. So I would say ones willingness and desire to take on any of that extra work speaks volumes as well. If you're thinking "No way do I want to do more work, especially if it isn't required!" Then I would say a PhD probably isn't a good fit. I on the other hand am thinking "Great! If only I didn't have to bother sleeping, then I could cram even more stuff into the day!"

Oh ok that makes sense.

Perhaps your colleagues are unhappy with their experience at Cornell? Honestly who cares what they think. You should be talking to your adviser and/or professors you're interested in doing research with to get their thoughts on you staying for a PhD.

For those of you with business cards what do they say for a job title?

Schedule a meeting with her and then open up the conversation about your future goals. Make it very clear that you have learned a lot from her and have enjoyed your position, but at some point you want to do more. While yes the possibility of you leaving will be sad, I can't imagine she wouldn't be happy to hear you like the field and want more education in it.

Yep annoying isn't it? In my case the 4 year university I went to lists my community college courses and grades, but I still had to order transcripts from every single school. Apparently grad programs felt having the community college envelope and seal was more important than my interest in saving money when I asked about this lol.

Hehehe totally messed up my gender pronouns in my earlier post, glad you made sense of it. From the new information you've provided it does sound like the highly ranked professor won't be able to write you the best letter. It sounds like the Master's level professor does know you better and has a better understanding of your goals and interests. It might be a good idea to schedule a meeting with him and ask him if he'd consider writing you a letter. You could state your case for asking him just as you stated it here. If he agrees, you'll get a letter. If he disagrees he may have some suggestions on who else you might ask.

I personally do not think it is ok to go over the word limit. When you consider how many apps adcoms have to read and how finicky they can be I would not want to be the straw that broke the camels back and get my app tossed out entirely. Yes it is hard to say everything you want to say in 500 words, but not doing so indicates that you have trouble following directions or just don't care. Not a good impression. I think people like that Georgetown person may be rare. Do your programs require a CV as part of the application? If so have you noticed that there isn't a maximum length for that? As soon as I figured that out I took full advantage. Instead of detailing past research experience in my SOP I put all of that on my CV. That way I could focus on new research, how that relates to my research interests, and how that all connects to professors I want to work with and my career path. If I may make a suggestion based on the brief outline you've proposed? You can use it or not use it, just something to consider. 1. Intro Do not drone on here. Get to the point. 2. past research put this on CV 3. different past research project put this on CV 4. paragraph that links past research to new proposed area of study (well sort of. It explains why I took a slightly different direction in my MA thesis, but how this led to discovery x, which will allow me to return to the type of research I did in the past). Work this into the intro so it also acts as a nice transition to what is coming next. 5. new research 6. new research Is it absolutely necessary to talk about both new research projects to get your point across? If not then detail both on your CV and pick one to discuss here. 7. fit paragraph/conclusion *note - I tried demonstrating "fit" throughout the SOP.

When you say the Master's level professor knows you best, in what capacity do you mean? Were you just a student of hers? Did you conduct research with her? Was she just your adviser that helped you with your degree plan? All of the above? If it is all of the above I would say you might get a stronger letter from her because she can speak to your research skills. Sure she may not know as much about writing lor's, but you can greatly assist her with the process by having a sit down meeting with her and going over any required forms the school has and whatever info they're asking for. She can then reach out to other faculty for advice on how to do them. I imagine this is what many professors do when they're just learning to write them.

Yep I knew that it was likely I'd get written up for calling in sick if I had gone with that option. I just felt it was worth the risk. Yeah small offices are a huge pain when it comes to someone needing time off for any reason.

1- Should I apply to more PhD programs? I am not familiar with your field, so hopefully others will chime in. 12 seems like a good number to me. 2- Is my application process going well? Should I be doing something different? It sounds like you're on track and well organized. Don't forget to take a break once in awhile =) 3- Should I suck it up and pay the $3000 for Kaplan GRE tutoring? No. There are plenty of free resources, just search the forums here for threads. Also there are a number of books people on here recommend that can be found at the public library or purchased inexpensively online. 4- How late is too late to apply? I would say its smart to get your apps in a couple of weeks early, that way if there are any technical glitches or something isn't received you have time to correct that before the deadline. If you wait until the day before or day of you're at a greater risk of not getting everything in or dealing with some unexpected hassle like your computer crashing or their system crashing or whatever.