Cog-Neuro Guy

I am in the M.S. program at UTD. Let me know if you have any questions.

Hello fello forum members, I wanted to gauge some responses and opinions from fellow graduate students, any faculty members that lurk on here, etc. in regards to the probability or likelihood for one to be competitive enough to gain admissions or at least an interview for a Ph.D. program in either counseling or clinical psychology....the catch: the undergraduate degree is in sociology with a minor in psychology. From some basic research I have seen online, it looks like counseling psychology programs typically are more accepting of applicants of diverse backgrounds (i.e., they have an undergraduate degree not in psychology). It seems like most students that are accepted and attend a Ph.D. program in clinical psychology almost always have an undergraduate degree in psychology, or a dual degree in another field and psychology. My current master's degree is in a focused area within experimental psychology (cognitive neuroscience), however I conduct research at a different school (medical university) in clinical neuropsychology. My apprehensions lie within the fear of not being considered competitive enough because my undergraduate degree was not in psychology, but in sociology with a psychology minor. Does anyone have experience with certain schools or programs that are more accepting of student with a diverse background?

Levitin is a good source on music cognition. Interesting.

Hello forum, I wanted to see if there were any forum members who have applied to, attended or are currently attending the TWU Ph.D. program in counseling psychology? I searched around the forum and have not found any results.

In the United States, there are no such things as Ph.D. in Clinical Neuropsychology, however, you can attend a program that either has a significant research focus within neuropsychology (mostly found in clinical psychology Ph.D. programs) or you can attend a university that actually has built-in tracts within the clinical psychology program (Nova Southeastern University is one many). Here is a link that provides you the ability to search for programs that are post-doc, or Ph.D. with a neuropsychology tract built within the program: http://www.div40.org/training/index.html Much of clinical neuropsychology is clinical assessment of neuropathology and neuro-cognitive ailments or disorders. I work in a department within a major medical university in which a lot of our clients are often seen for dementia, concussion, TBI, etc. Most work conducted by these neuropsychologists is the accurate assessment of a neural disturbance with psychiatric or cognitive consequences to provide a clearer picture to the treating neurologist, psychiatrist, etc. To answer your question, it involves mostly assessment, however, you may elect to take part in some therapy such as CBT, RET, etc. If you have a chance, look at "Neuropsychological Assessment, 5th ed." by Lezak. One of the six purposes of neuropsychology is research, so, you will find that this is sounding pretty on key with your current aspirations. As far as your concerns about getting into a program; you actually sound like you would be a great fit. Most funded Ph.D. programs in clinical psychology really seek a person with strong, consistent research experience with a heavy passion in research. While clinical experience is helpful, the research component of your application is going to make up the bulk of your evaluation. If your experience is neuroscience, psychological or cognitive-related, you have a very strong acumen to work in this field. If you are unsure as to if you want to be clinically applied or more focused on research within the field of neuropsychology, I suggest you find a paid or non-paid position within a clinical neuropsychology setting (e.g. hospital, university). Most of my experience has been researching rather than clinical applications of the science, however, this will be changing in the next week for me. This will really expose you to the responsibilities that are required of a scientist-practioner. If you find that the clinical setting is not your cup of tea, that is fine, look at a program in cognitive neuroscience or an experimental psychology Ph.D. program with a neuropsychology research faculty. Neuropsychology was developed off of principles within clinical neurology, cognitive science, neuroscience, psychology...needless to say, these fields are research in focus. Hope this helps!

To become a practicing neuropsychologist in the United States, it would require a Ph.D. in counseling or clinical psychology with your practicum hours devoted to neuropsychological practices (assessment, therapy, etc.). You would also need to complete specific coursework in areas like clinical neuropsychology, neuropsychological assessment, neuroanatomy and maybe a handful of other "neuro"- based courses. All of this will provide you the basis to be competitive and attractive to apply for a post-doctoral position in clinical neuropsychology. After you have completed an ABCN-accredited post-doc position, you are now eligible to sit for the ABPP-CN board certification to become a board-certified clinical neuropsychologist. However, if you want to be a neuropsychologist in the research sense, an experimental psychology Ph.D. would be just fine. I currently work in a university hospital in which I often collaborate with cognitive neuroscientists who perform neuropsychological assessments to conduct research for their department. In fact, this month I will be assisting in administering and analyzing neuropsychological assessments for the purpose of a depression study with a fellow cognitive neuroscientist. My recommendation to you is, to find a program that really has a faculty member that you can devote your research to the research side of neuropsychology. It is often difficult to get into a program in which most faculty members are either hard-core neuroscience or hard-core cognitive science minded. My current school has two professors who use neuropsychological assessments in their research. All of the other faculty use wet-lab practices and cognitive science practices to research. FYI: If neuropsychology is what you want, becoming a clinical neuropsychologist is the better route, as most if not all of your time is just assessment.

It also depends on which form of neuroscience you would like to pursue. If you are interested in behavioral and cognitive neuroscience, many people are often taken from psychology backgrounds. I actually have my undergraduate in sociology with a minor in psychology and am currently a master's degree student in cognition and neuroscience. This is what is awesome about neuroscience; there's not one single pathway to become involved in research involving the nervous system.

I currently attend The University of Texas at Dallas where I am completing my M.S. in Applied Cognition and Neuroscience. Check them out. I do my research in clinical neuropsychology at UT Southwestern Medical School.

Exactly! I am currently doing a cognition and neuroscience master's degree while being a graduate research intern in neuropsychology at UT Southwestern. I went into this master's program with no prior coursework in neuroscience or cognition (I know only what I learned in my psychology minor since I was a sociology major). I knew that I wanted to distribute 60% of my time to practicing what I will/ have learned and the other 40 on researching. I knew that I was really fascinated with neuroscience and psychology. I knew that much of today's research for future psychotherapeutic remedies is heavily vested in cognition or cognitive science. So, I wanted to somehow combine this whole mess of things into something that I could practice (psychology) as well as apply in-depth knowledge on the neuroscience behind behavior and pathology (cog-neuroscience). I think the medical anthropology provides a good, and I would even say unique approach to understanding human and societal behavior. One topic that you could really look into is social cognition or social cognitive-neuroscience. This could combine the aspects of society and individual behavior in terms of neurological constructs and development. Again, really stressing what you find to be the most interesting thing to study and what you can see yourself committed to for a long time is key (the "fit).

I too just finished my first week of my first semester in the master's program at UT Dallas. I have a couple of things working against me at the start: I was a sociology major with a psychology minor in my undergrad. My master's is in cognition and neuroscience. The one saving grace that I have at the moment is, I studied cognitive psychology at the undergrad level and I took a lot of brick/ mortar psychology courses, including two stats classes and an experimental class in sociology. Other than that, the systems neuroscience class really hit me in the head. On top of this, the sheer amount of reading for my two classes plus my internship I am doing in neuropsychology at UT Southwestern just makes it seem like ...."what happened" Other than this, I am actually very excited to learn all of this, I am the most nervous about how the examinations may be constructed in my neuroscience class...and how the hell do you take notes at this level? This isn't a typical undergrad class where we can just notate bold-faced terms or abstract ideas and memorize them for the test. Other than that...I'm still hanging in there!

The career prospects vary. It's a subfield of experimental psychology as your probably know already. UTD states that it is a great program to leverage people into doctoral programs in neuroscience, behavioral neuroscience, cognitive science and experimental psychology. Also, you can become an IONM technologist with this M.S. (I was hesitant about doing that because the field is still underdeveloped and unregulated)...it seems like the only jobs to be had are from 3rd party medical staffing firms. Hospitals and clinics usually outsource for IONM through a staffing firm. They do have a good salary ($65-80K) if you get CNIM certification. Other than that, my main goal with this program is to get a strong cognitive-neuroscience and experimental psychology background to apply to clinical and counseling psychology doctoral programs. I am a graduate research assistant for the chief of neuropsychology and psychology at UT Southwestern, so, I am pairing relevant research opportunities with my degree to tailor it to my needs and applications. I also plan on teaching at a college, I used to teach high school and middle school instrumental studies, so I like the teaching aspect. I see you are doing school psychology (TWU?)

I am entering the M.S. program in Applied Cognition and Neuroscience- specializing in cognitive neuroscience. Anyone else tagging along?

I have heard that the analytic section is not typically weighed as much, if at all in some cases. When I applied to my master's program at UTD, my analytic score was a 4.5...needless to say the other two sections were horrendous. I find it funny that the supposed reasoning behind the GRE is to test abstract and independent thinking (which are extremely pertinent qualities to have in graduate school), yet it doesn't account for the other types of learning processes or adaptive strategies that are used by other types of highly evolved (potential) graduate students. Also, it fails to account for any testing anxiety which is constantly flaunted by many committee members. The GRE is supposed to be the best predictor (for now) as to the probability of someone's ability to think, create and understand information in a more complex manner. The analytic section actually serves as a better unit of measurement when it comes to abstract and independent thinking. It requires someone to write on two two topics that require the writer to compartmentalize and organize information deduced from the reading, then spectate as to its validity and reliability...all while providing a thesis-like component into the mix to support one's argument. Yet, it is the least-considered component in the puzzle. Admissions committees much prefer someone's ability to visualize and measure two triangles in a bilateral formation and account for the shaded portion of the top, left corner.

I did my undergraduate degree in sociology with a minor in psychology. I had zero research experience (well, maybe two months ). My GPA in both my major, minor and cumulative was very strong. I took the real brick and mortar courses in psychology because I knew I would be somewhat at a disadvantage when competing amongst psychology majors for graduate programs in counseling and clinical psychology. You will find a lot of people say that being a psychology major is important, and many will say not so much, some take a road right down the middle and say that having certain courses is ideal. I decided to pursue a master's degree in cognitive-neuroscience at my university and became a research assistant in a neuropsychology department at a medical school, where I dream of attending (UT Southwestern). I got into some sociology and social work master's programs, and the perspective from some of the directors tended to be "it's easier to go from psychology to sociology rather than sociology to psychology." I'm a rebel! However, master's programs typically are judged differently than Ph.D. programs, but I think you should go for it. I can't provide you any hardcore statistical data on your probability, but with good grades and your GRE, plus your research experience and interests...you shouldn't be nervous or skeptical. All the best!