RedDoor

It's not a matter of 'indoctrination'--which is a gross oversimplification and an implication that no other group is 'indoctrinated'--it's a very complicated matter than cannot be boiled down so easily. First, the fundamentalist/liberal controversies ended much differently in the UK and abroad, meaning it is easier to begin with evangelical presuppositions than in the US. Many universities have evangelical (or the closest thing to it) professors on staff abroad, making it a much more enjoyable environment than a university in the US that is hostile to your beliefs. This was especially the case ~20 years ago (which would explain the amount of UK PhDs in evangelical seminaries), but it seems things are loosing up. When Harvard Divinity promotes an evangelical to Dean, you know change is coming! For example, a quick glance at the faculty in Gordon-Conwell shows a majority UK PhDs from the older faculty (St. Andrews, Oxbridge, Aberdeen), but several American from the newer/adjunct faculty (Union NYC, Marquette, Drew, Notre Dame). Germany is a different case entirely. One of my professors who did his PhD in Germany told me it has been a very common practice for the last 60 or so years to fail the dissertation if any sort of conservative position is taken (e.g., historicity, chronology, etc). This would not be a reflection of any method, but simply a rejection of anything that is not classic liberalism. This also is slowly changing, though more slowly than the US. Second, many evangelical seminaries are not focused on the academy as much as universities simply because the majority of the students they are teaching will be pastors, not PhD candidates. Spending three years obtaining a PhD in Scotland is much more bearable than 5 years in a university that is training you for the academy. As I said above, the level of academic training necessary for the job is much lower. After hearing I wanted to teach at a Christian college or be an educational minister, my adviser told me just to get a PhD and not be too concerned about the place I get it. Instead of waiting several years to get into an American school (my own GPA is quite average and non-competitive), I should simply do a UK PhD and minister in some way during that time. Once again, it is all about fit. If you wish to teach at a university religion department in the future, do your best to get into an American school. If you wish to be involved in full-time church ministry or teach at a Christian organization, a UK PhD is just fine. God knows the American Church needs more quality PhDs. I'm not, of course, denying that a few of these colleages mentioned above did avoid critical issues, but I would be far more skeptical of those that receive PhDs from seminaries than UK universities.

These links should give you broad idea of the differences between the programs, dissertation proposals, and statement of purpose. They are more directly relative to a PhD in Biblical Studies, but they should still have quite a bit of information on the various facets of the UK PhD. I http://cruxsolablog.com/phd-advice/ -- Ninjay Gupta wrote an extensive blog (later reworked as a book) for preparing students for the PhD process. While this is pretty specialized in NT, you should find some helpful advice here especially on diversification and proposal tips. http://dunelm.wordpress.com/phd-pointers/the-thesis-proposal/ -- A very help blog all around. Tips on moving to the UK from the US, forming a dissertation topic/proposal, and other matters. Not as specialized as Gupta. http://ntweblog.blogspot.com/2007/04/phd-uk-or-usa.html -- Mark Goodacre's thought on US vs UK PhD http://larryhurtado.wordpress.com/2011/09/10/the-uk-phd-structure-and-pressures/ -- Larry Hurtado on the UK PhD structure, what to expect, how to get in, etc. Both Perique and motmot are quite correct. The UK application is almost solely based on the dissertation proposal (though Oxford takes into account GPA and recommendations), so you will need to contact whomever you are interested in studying under before applying. Do this your in the second semester of your penultimate year in the MA/MDiv program. Any early and you won't know what your proposal is or the current trends in research (unless you are writing a thesis). Any later and you won't have time to form a thesis (unless, again, you have already done this). Fit is just as important here as in the US--perhaps more so. Always take into account that other "less prestigious" universities (Durham, Edinburgh, Nottingham, etc) as possibilities. It is possible that they might be better fits for you. Finally, your ultimate goal should always be taken into account. Since I am focused on teaching in a small Christian college or seminary, any PhD will work for my end goal--the standards are lower than university posts (as is the pay!). It's perhaps even more important for me to be involved in Christian ministry opportunities--preaching, missions, teaching, possible ordination, denominational affiliation, etc. All of that to say, your outside experience may be just as critical for the job hunt later down the road than a US vs UK PhD distinction. Hope this helps!

Sorry you didn't get in, but hopefully Vandy or Candler are better fits. Are you going to accept either one of those offers?

As a ThM student, I'll also throw my experience in and say that an advanced masters (ThM/MSt) is only 9 months, thesis included.

http://www.hebrewsyntax.org/ has resources for several of the languages listed, but the most helpful handouts/instruction is in Biblical Hebrew. The "other languages" section (which is mainly just paradigm sheets) includes Aramaic, German, Modern Hebrew, Ugaritic, and Syriac

It is certainly a good thing, though I am not sure it will help you dramatically in your application. I certainly would go for it. In my experience, TA jobs for students pay ~$800 compared to the typical adjunct pay of ~$1,500-$3,000 per class. The TA job will also allow your references to speak on teaching ability, which should be a nice way to separate yourself from others. You'll want to make sure that it does not affect your GPA dramatically. In fact, that may be more important than the TA job.

Yikes, thanks for the update. Was pondering applying to PhD programs there next year, but I might avoid it now. Any reason they're in the gutter financially? Wiki says they have an endowment of over $100 million?

Rejected from St. Andrews. Little bummed, but wasn't my first choice so meh.

Have you gotten a notification of acceptance or rejection? I'm still waiting on that myself. The closest thing to a timetable I saw was late-March (http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/postgraduate_courses/apply/outcomes_of_your_application/). Good luck!

Thanks for the info! I hope so too. I was told I'd probably be accepted for the M.Phil. if I was accepted at all. Prof. Bockmuehl seemed to like my proposal, and I'd be fine with another degree. More time for networking and prepping the ole CV. GIF related, it's what everyone feels like right now.

UK applicants won't know anything until late March. Thanks Obama. For everyone who has been accepted...

The others have given great advice thus far. Continuing Kuriakos' last point, try to network during your year off. Go to SBL/AAR (if applicable) and get to know profs in your field. Just as in other fields, knowing the right people is incredibly important. I wish I would have begun networking sooner than I did honestly. A beaming recommendation from a well-known scholar can often cause admissions counselors to not so easily dismiss a lower GPA.

I can definitely sympathize with your position, phdapp, since I came from similar circles (KJV only, etc), but we have to accept that these distinctions do not hold weight to anyone outside the very small population of conservative Christians and is admittedly very arbitrary. While those in different circles of conservative Christianity will make much of small differences, that does not remove them from the larger crowd of conservative evangelicalism. Fundamentalist has come to mean "very, very conservative" in pop culture; the lines have been blurred in denominations as well between the two, so I don't think it is as cut and dry as we might except. I would also make a distinction that you (and I assume most American conservative evangelicals) would not make: not upholding inerrancy does not a liberal make. If you wish to study why this is an important distinction, I suggest Liberalism without Illusions by Chris Evans, which is a nice survey of liberal Christianity and its place in the Church today. And, if the OP does choose GCTS, he can study with real living and breathing liberals--he may find they're more like Christ than he imagined! If it happened with me (conservative of conservative; of the tribe of Bob Jones and Abeka Books; sat at the feet of Ken Ham), it can happen to anyone. I will agree with you on one point: conservatism nor liberalism is a precursor to academia. Certainly, both sides have powerhouses and pro's and con's. In this situation, it will be best for the OP to consider a conservative multidenominational seminary near other "liberal" universities as suggested (though seminaries can be and are more liberal than some universities and vice versa).

I would also recommend Gordon-Conwell, but it is my alma mater so I am a bit biased. Shoot me a PM for specifics. I think the faculty at GCTS is more diverse in their credentials than TEDS, but I'm a year or two behind the drastic changes occurring at TEDS.

Believe me, I was equally surprised--I don't come from a reformed background nor did I have much familiarity with it aside from the standard works. Kline was a professor at GCTS for quite some time. He and David Wells have left their reformed mark on GCTS for sure. I do see some signs of a changing of the guard with new hires (an analytic philosophy guy and a legit hermeneutics guy who is non-reformed), but I get the feeling some people want to keep it reformed or bust. The other faculty are quite varied; all are from faith backgrounds, but off the top of my head, I know several Pentecostal, Lutheran, Baptist, Congregational, Anglican, Presbyterian, and Episcopalian professors (some are also pastors/priests). It is unfortunate in my opinion that the theology faculty has not been as varied as the rest of the seminary, but the times are changing as I mentioned. It might be possible to avoid taking classes with the hardnosed reformed profs, just be sure to ask around before registering. It should be noted that inerrancy is in the statement of faith. Westminster has fine faculty for what they are supposed to be; that is, a seminary dedicated to teaching the theological positions of the OPC denomination, typically to pastors or pastor-scholars (notice their sys profs have PhDs from Westminster). I've heard from various people that the quality in theology has gone down hill recently, but I can't confirm that from first hand knowledge. I should also note my circles are PCUSA, so there might be some residual hard feelings there. I'd also what to encourage you to see what consortium the various schools offer. Even though the GCTS theology/OT dept might be down, you can supplement (replace?) those courses with Harvard Div, BC, BU, or any other school in the Boston Theological Institute. I believe Dallas has something similar, and I know that Wheaton students can take classes and U of Chicago, but outside of that I'm unsure. So, be sure to weigh the whole picture (including scholarships!) before accepting.

The professor I was interested in studying under at Durham is leaving for another university and the head professor told me he doesn't have any spaces available. After consulting with my seminary professor, I'm expanding my applications to Oxford (Bockmuehl) and Cambridge (Gathercole). St. Andrews application is in the books; Edinburgh application is ongoing (deadline is Jan 15) due to a conversation with the potential professor concerning my proposal. Hope everyone else's process is stressfree! Being a full time student, part time worker, and writing SOP, proposals, writing samples, etc. is not my favorite activity. I'll be happy when it's over--at least I think I will. :/

I would avoid going back to Liberty for gradschool. Their M.Div is not accredited by the ATS meaning it will likely not be recognized by PhD programs. Ungrad GPA is necessary for scholarships, but if you're just looking to attend school, you should be fine. Just be honest in your SOP. A year abroad might help prove yourself (frutive mentioned Oxbridge already, great idea IMO). Gordon-Conwell grad here, it depends on your field. If you're looking to do Old Testament or theology, I would go elsewhere and that pains me to say since I loved the place. The OT faculty are all Meredith Kline clones and the theology department (except for two newer hires) are Machen clones (I don't believe they attend SBL; only ETS if that tells you anything). The languages are excellent as well (as furtive put it). Plus side is that you can take your OT classes at Harvard and actually be prepared to do a PhD if you want to go that route (i'd suggest doing a MA in language and a MA at Harvard). The New Testament department, however, is incredibly diverse. I can't recommend them enough. GCTS has an excellent reputation around the UK programs for producing students with a very high completion rate, which is a big deal. Westminister has the same pros and cons, but they are far more conservative than GCTS and less open-minded (simply because they're denominational). Hope that helps

Time commitment, the desire to study abroad, and the strength of the programs/libraries are three reasons, but the main one involves my fiance getting a PhD as well. With some UK schools, you only need to appear two or three times a year (e.g., London School of Theology). If both of us are accepted, this would allows us to live essentially wherever the other gets accepted (or is cheapest) and travel by train to the other school when necessary. As a bit of an nota bene, I don't necessarily want to teach at the graduate level or at a state university. I'd rather work at a small, religious college (interdenominational if possible) at least to begin my career. A UK school will be sufficient to get one of those posts (as compared to a large state university for example). I do want to be open to the possibility of teaching at the graduate level, so I did pursue the UK TT instead of the 2nd or 3rd tier US schools or even TT US seminaries per my professor's advice. I do also plan on being productive during my PhD (I'm sure someone's laughing at my naivete right now) and afterwards so that I can build my resume and pick up some things missed by a UK PhD instead of a US PhD. I hope that makes sense!

St. Andrews, Durham, Edinburgh in that order. I'm hoping that I can get funding, but if not I will most likely take out loans. I am in the unique position where a UK degree, funding or not, will be preferable to a US degree. I wouldn't recommend people following my lead, but that is essentially my story.

While I may be the only poster here applying to the UK schools, I thought I'd give a heads up as to where I am in the process. - Met with potential adviser. He liked my proposal, gave me a few pointers and items to read, and encouraged me to apply. He said that it sound good, but it really depends on how many applicants they have per year and the quality of their applications. He encouraged me to apply to surrounding schools in case there is not room at the program, but we had a great conversation overall. Essentially, my proposal initially was too narrow from my current prof's view point, so I broaden it. My potential adviser then told me it was too broad and to narrow it. Just goes to show that you should really shape your proposals to the potential adviser/s.

Many, many jobs exist outside of the US for religious teaching positions especially in Biblical studies. My plan is to work 5-15 years outside the US and move back to care for my parents. This is, of course, if I do not get a job before then, but I really desire the experience of immersing myself in another culture to teach them what I know and to learn what they know. Right now, the horizon is wide open. South Africa? Thailand? Costa Rica? Brazil? Fiji? Who knows? But it's very exciting to dream about.

Just had a prof tell me the exact same thing. I was trying to decide between the biggest name on campus and an "up and coming" productive prof, and I was told to select the two best recommenders no matter what their title/position is.

I have heard of McMaster doing this as well as Yale and Union. The students (now faculty) I know who went through the programs graduated with both an MA and PhD and I believe the graduation was simultaneous though work must have been done previous to certain exams.

I can't decide if we should all drink more or less.