TMP

GRE scores aside, I am going to ask you a few important questions. Your answers will certainly help me and few old-timers to steer you in the right direction. 1) Why Boston? 2) What is your research interest? 3) What do you intend on doing with your PhD? 4) How much are you willing to sacrifice to get the PhD?

ReallyNiceGuy, I faced the same dilemma too. For my specific field, I would need to know 3 languages! 2 out of 3 would be acceptable for admissions. The best advice that I receive was, "If you aren't going to go to graduate school right away, use the time to beef up your languages." I went straight to my MA program with 1 language (out of 3) and picked up the 2nd language while there. Then when I saw that I had to leave academia after my MA, I decided to use the time to pick up the 3rd language. So now I have 3 working languages, which is impressive by any standard. Not a guaranteed ticket to admissions but it can take attention away from less-than-impressive GPA or GRE. I just kept applying and used my "free" time to work on my languages. As long you make progress with languages, you can decide for yourself when you want to apply. You'll want to discuss this with potential advisers. Some may suggest that you should take another year on that language, others may deem your preparation acceptable. It depends what you really want. But you want to have the best preparation possible to have the best shot. You also want to check in programs to make sure that they have excellent resources in helping you with langauges (like FLAS and area studies centers). If you're interested in a program without or little such resource, it's in your best interest to do much of the legwork yourself before you apply because nobody is going to help you there. I don't know what kind of job you have at your university but I should hope that you're not looking to go into further debt just to delay your graduation and be able to take languages. Can't you keep your job after your graduation and use staff benefits to sit in language classes?

I totally suggest that you look up "A Piece of Bread," another Turkish applicant. His profile was quite similar to yours. Look for his posts from this past application season for some input. He turned out just fine- attending a top 5 PhD program. You may want to try emailing him (look in here http://forum.thegradcafe.com/user/3045-a-piece-of-bread/).

Be optimistically cautious about professors' encouragement. A lot of professors will encourage their top students to go on for PhD because they see potential. That is fine because they themselves know what it takes to get a PhD. However, keep it realistic. Their perspective is skewed to your current university and they won't necessarily know what is the competition you'll face (especially if they don't have their own doctoral program). If they say "You'll get in everywhere, even Harvard!" Don't take it too personally but just a compliment that you're a great candidate. In other words, take their words with a grain of salt but keep cautious optimism. They aren't going to care about this. Everything else you said is what they'll notice. What languages are you talking about, specifically? If you can, incorporate them in your senior thesis. Don't sweat the GRE too much. I have awful scores as well but nobody has complained about them. If the rest of your application is very good (flawless writing sample, clear SOP, glowing LORs, good grades, some professional activities), the GRE won't matter so much. They matter for additional fellowships but those are tough to get anyway. Now, I'd like to go back to the first thing. If your professors are encouraging you to go for the PhD, it's not clear whether or not you have thought about it before approaching them, or if they approached you and said "Get a PhD." Either way, why?

As many as your sanity allows. Do the applications for your top choices and early deadlines first. Then see how your sanity is by the end of December for January applications.

Graduate courses in history are much better. They'll show that you CAN do graduate-level work. We really do a bit more reading than what our syllabus says.

What I have gathered from talking to professors across rankings is all depended on their personal view of their own department and how it'll fare in the job market for its graduates. I'm going to talk about USNEWS rankings here for reference in terms of what schools people should look at. People in the Top 10 seemed much more confident because, well, they're the Top 10 and it's basically guaranteed. People in the 20s and 30s are likely to say that their department is excellent/growing because they are willing to acknowledge that they've struggled in the past but have identified issues and are working on them to make their graduates much more marketable. Like guaranteeing funding. I would take StrangeLight's word for it, as my SLAC UG adviser confirmed her perspective a few months back, that if you go to a school ranked in the 20s and 30s, you may be in an excellent position down the road because the departments give its graduate students much more leeway on their dissertation topics. Both StrangeLight and UG adviser have gone through search committees recently and they've found people from these kind of schools to have much more "interesting" work. The goal is to be able to relate to undergraduates on many levels and be able to teach a broad range of courses, should you end up applying and interviewing for jobs at liberal arts colleges (LACs), where it is the norm for professors to teach beyond the departmental courses to core courses and first year seminars. My first year seminar was taught by a Japanese Lit professor who gave us an interdisciplinary approach to studying Kyoto's history and culture. I've noticed this range of approaches to graduate students' education through personal conversations with professors at departments ranging from Top 10 to Top 90. I found myself leaning much more towards those in the 20s and 30s because their departments were still reputable and they seemed incredibly interested in my work because my work was exciting to begin with. I've seen professors at one Ivy League, a public Ivy, and another top 10 cringe when I described my ideal project and plans for my doctorate. They acknowledged how interesting it was but questioned my fit within the department. Two claimed that transnational history was awesome but the boundaries were still so rigid, in a way that graduate students have to decide which geographical area they want to "major" in prior to applying. The key is, OP, you have to decide how you want to approach your graduate education. Be a conservative or a risk-taker. You won't know what the SCs (search committees) really want when you apply for jobs. They can surprise you. Maybe not. At the end, you need to be able to sell your work, your research interests, and teaching ability. So, as Sheryl Sandberg said in her first piece of advice to Barnard graduates recently, "Think Big." Think big from day 1- think about what else can you do with your PhD, think about who you can network with, think about summer internships if you don't need to be doing research or language work after your first year, think of all the possibilities to create marketable skills for that Plan B.

Ditto with Strangelight. You really have to decide what is it that you want to do with your history degree. It'll give you some kind of goal to work towards when you hit rough patches in your MA program. I've been in the museum world and you do need to have some kind of MA degree and several internships with excellent connections to even make it through the door (although volunteering for a while will certainly help!). My suggestion is to get your state residency ASAP and just work until you can qualify for the low in-state tuition so you won't have to take out so many loans to finance your MA. That's how some people get their MAs cheaply enroute to the PhD.

What would you want your primary field exam to be in? What would you want to teach? If it's US history, don't bother learning Russian. Really. It's a very difficult language that even 2 years of college-level Russian won't be enough to handle the Soviet archives. Learn it when you have to through intensive summer program (which hopefully will be supported by a FLAS fellowship or some other grant).

Just make sure that whatever MA programs you get in offers SOME kind of funding opportunities, like a summer grant for research that you can throw on your CV for PhD. Everyone knows that MA students have to pay out of their pockets one way or another. Do you or anyone you know have access to online journals? There is usually a "state of the field" article every now and then so you will need to do some searching to see what is going on in relevant journals. In my field, the best way to track trends, as it seems as of late, is to pay attention to edited books on specific issue, which contain articles by various contributors. These articles, usually, are the basis for their future research. The articles themselves ask critical questions, which opens up avenues for others to explore. I actually like these books better than journals because articles are tied to one central theme/problem/question and makes it easier to compare views and they're published at the same time, with the latest research available (as opposed to comparing journal articles on similar topics published at various times, with the most recent ones being much more sophisticated than the earlier ones).

Apply to a range. Try not to go into debt if you wind up with only terminal MA programs at the end. It's possible. You just need to spend some time sitting down and thinking about how your previous coursework and interests led you to your current research questions. Show that you understand the historians' arguments. Previous history degrees aren't required for the PhD. I connected with a student in a top 20 program who did her MA in German Studies and BA in biology!

There always seems to be at least one or two religious/medieval history people on these boards each year- take a look in the past threads for them.

1) You're only just starting your history major. Have you taken classes in other geographical areas and time period? Have you taken any foreign languages yet? Like you, I realized that I wanted to go to graduate school for history when I finished my sophomore year (had pretty awesome professors). My geographical focus, at the time, was in Eastern European/Russian history. Then I shifted to American history in my senior year and wrote a thesis relating to the Great Depression/WWII in America. I thought I would stick with this when I went for my interdisciplinary MA. I had a balance of coursework both on the US and Europe. For my MA thesis, I stuck with American history (after all, my MA thesis adviser was the reason why I went to this program and she's an Americanist.). But as I did my research, it took me ALL over the world. Because I was studying a refugee group, I had to do some reading in American, European, and Asian history (no joke!). I've done some Latin American for comparative study in order to make my analysis stronger. As a result? I've gone transnational. There were times that I was tempted to go back to European history but I realized that it's not really for me. Neither is American history although I'd be willing to take the bait. Despite "traveling" all over, my time period remains in 20th century. Keep an open mind as you go through your courses and get out of your comfort zone a little if you have an open topic for your papers. You'll learn so much more. You may not have such depth as your classmates (or future cohort) but your breadth will serve extremely well as you begin to narrow your focus in graduate school (because you know what's out there that needs to be studied) and choosing programs based on their strengths. I've actually been asked if I'm interested in becoming Latin Americanist because I've taken some courses in it, written papers relating to Argentina, and can read Spanish. As for foreign language, just get started if you can. If you're looking ahead to American history, try to choose French, German, or Spanish (although right now, you may be well served with German because of US occupation in Germany, unless you want to read Soviet documents). You'll save yourself some headaches down the road. Foreign languages trump GRE scores. It's an unspoken fact. 2) Consider taking some time off between undergrad and grad if you haven't thought of it. It's something that I wish I did before I went for my MA but am now as I await for another chance to apply for PhD and it's been SO rewarding. 3) You'll pretty much need a PhD if you really want to go for those jobs. There are SO many history PhDs out there who can't find tenure-track jobs so they go to private schools and community colleges. You'll most likely be competing with those people. Who do you think the department and private schools will really hire? 4) Funding. If you want to become a high school history teacher, consider focusing on getting some teaching experiences and certified in the state you want to teach first just to get hired. Then, depending on the distract and state, you may be able to get them to pay for your MA instead of you paying for it. There are also funded MA programs out there- the easiest way would be to look for MA-granting institutions, not doctoral. You'll get to TA and get paid for it.

Read that thread about what prior applicants have said about GPA and GRE. You've already cleared the hurdle of just having met the 3.0 GPA minimum for many universities. The GRE is going to change, don't bother re-taking it. Why are you looking only at Canadian universities? You need to learn this fast: Take everything that professors tell you with a grain of salt. The encouraging professors just have a lot of faith you and see potential in your work and you should keep their optimism in mind when you're struggling with the application process. The discouraging professors are (mostly) being realistic about the life of an academic, especially these days when competition is insane. Some of them just want you to get out in the real world and work for a while to be sure that academia is where you REALLY want to be. Nobody can truly assess your chances until they've stacked you up with other applicants, which they won't know about until January. Ultimately, you will need to learn to believe in yourself in order to feel confident. Be self-aware about your confidence level. Too much can lead to deep disappointment, anger, and regret down the road if things don't work out and you are more likely to make unrealistic decisions about your school list. If your confidence level is too low, people will notice it through your statement of purpose and any conversations you may have with the programs. Also, you are more likely to be at risk for the "imposter syndrome," which is basically underestimating your ability to succeed and this is absolutely prevalent in academia.

No, I did not. I'm critical because I'm an American. We're wary of cash-cow programs here because higher education is already quite expensive in the US (as opposed to many other countries in the world). So we just ask ourselves, "For its high tuition fees and COL (in NYC and London), is it really all worth the investment?" It's also because Columbia's taking advantage of its location in New York and is doing what it can (as well as NYU) to use the city to draw students in for all degrees imaginable. This program is fairly new- its first cohort was in Fall 2008, so these students graduated just only last year. So you may want to be in touch with the program to see how these students are faring with their new degrees. Good luck making the decision!

Uh, my question would be... why did you get a second MA?

It's a cash cow program. Are you willing to pay for all of this just for the experience? If you're not looking to get much out of this program other than experience, it's up to you. But if you're looking for the PhD, go with the cheapest option, because you'll probably have more debt down the road. It's really tempting and attractive but if you already have the option of going to London with King's College, go for it!

Simple. Tell the other schools that you have an offer with partial funding in hand and you need to decide by May 2nd, and, at the same time, ask that school if you can have a few days' extension because you're still waiting on decisions from other places.

Try not to get into too much debt in this process!

*climbs out from burning trenches, face covered in ashes and dirt* Do I have blood on my face? I think my right eye is swollen...Who punched me? I think it was NYU... no, was it Northwestern? Argh, I can't remember because Brandeis threw a pretty big grenade. My ears are still ringing form that blast... Truly, the only thing I can add to above comments is that History has indeed become a very competitive field. These days with so many smart, bright, capable students terrified of the *real world* along with clueless professors, especially common in smaller schools, are applying to graduate schools. The economy sucks. Thus applications are up and funding is down. As long as this trend holds, expect to re-apply for PhD, which is likely. Make other plans as you apply to PhD programs, especially those that have winter deadlines, not April or May. Keep an open mind. Ask what your friends are doing and if they're applying to something that's interesting to you, go for it! I completely regretted not doing so in my first two cycles and during this cycle, I bucked up and started applying for other opportunities beginning in late March. Frankly, I'm excited about moving forward in my non-academic life and see where this path takes me. If you want this degree bad enough, you will fight a good fight each cycle. You will be prepared to re-apply every time because right now it's rather unusually difficult time to get into graduate schools. You will be in touch with your professors and network with other academics if you can so you can get some outside opinions on your application. You will continue to keep your language skills sharp. You will continue to explore other interests as the time away from academia gives you opportunities to do things you wouldn't get to do during a PhD program. As one of my motto goes, "Life has no pause button." As historians, we probably dream about what we'd tell our grandkids what we did in our 20s and 30s and, gosh darn it, you better have something else to say besides "I did nothing but apply to PhD programs." It's a battlefield out there, comrades. Anything can happen. Don't worry, I will recover and be back.

Yes, I really strongly urge you to take time off. And this is coming from someone who went straight from undergraduate to a MA program... and was hoping to go straight to a PhD program, which didn't work out, and then had to take a year off and now with a possibility of a few more! I thought it was a terrible thing that one of my professors said to me about not getting in anywhere last year, "It's a blessing in disguise." i wanted to punch her because going for my PhD was my dream. However, a year later, she was right. I stopped and evaluated my life. Going into my MA program and seeing what academia's like first hand made me realize that I really should do things that I wouldn't otherwise have a chance to do while in a PhD program. So I started doing a few things like volunteer work in a completely unrelated field (but of other personal interests) and travel abroad. It was quite well worth it. And I do actually look forward to taking more time off and keep exploring what's out there so I can A) really, really be sure that this is what I want to do and take advantage of what life has to offer. Don't get me wrong, I love my research but with graduate schools being uber-competitive these days due to the recession, you're so much better served to get yourself busy so that when rejections do roll around, you already have something to do and there's less of that "the sky's gonna fall!" feeling. In terms of doing your applications, because it's your first time, you really should have the luxury of time to research programs, study for the GRE, and so forth. Applying to graduate school is a part-time job itself that doesn't pay. My first two cycles were while I was a student and it was hard even though I did put a lot of thought into the process. However, my writing wasn't *shiny* as it could be because I felt rushed at times. For my current cycle, I had the luxury of time to do everything (more research, re-took the GRE, etc) and I realized what a big difference it made! It did result in a stronger application in a way that if I need to re-apply, all I have to do is write the SOP again. Everything else is all set. Also as someone said, getting into the real world and applying to 50-100 job positions and only getting a handful of interviews (or none!) will thicken your skin. You need a very thick skin to survive in academia as rejections happen by the buckets and you can't take everything personally. Also if you went to a LAC, you are indeed better served to get out there because attending a LAC only gives you a limited view. When I attended my MA program at HUGE university, I was amazed by all the opportunities and different fields of study that I was sure that if I had gone there for undergraduate, I probably wouldn't be a history major, or at least not have thought too much about a PhD in History. Who knows. But do participate in all senior events put on by the senior class and career services next year so you can talk to alums and find out all the life decisions they've made and how and why they got there. Above all, please don't apply to graduate school because the general job market isn't good. Apply only when you are VERY sure and would apply in ANY situation and are willing to re-apply if necessary (which is likely).

You can't really do anything about a ranked list. If you've already told him your interest in staying on the list and said that the school is your top choice (well I hope you did), they WILL get back to you. Things don't really happen until April 14/15 when people accept/decline offers and the DGSs are busy trying to keep track of all the offers and see how far the list can go. You made it this far, you can wait another week! I'm also in the same position... *sigh* But I'm moving on with my life because... that's just one aspect of my life that I actually do have control over.

KMD, you've been pulling up quite a few old threads. Please keep the date in mind, the OP may already be attending a program.