Justin123

Unrealistic expectations=wanting a school to review my application. SO UNREALISTIC! What was I thinking?

Yeah... That's exactly what I said... That UWM is an unethical institution... Could you please stop inventing what I said? I said that I believe that the way the genetics department is managing the graduate admissions is unethical. I have no idea how you jumped from this to the idea that I'm calling an institution unethical.

By the way, I think that you should make a distinction between undergrads and grad students here. And I don't think that that's the sole reason they exist. Universities can also be seen as research institutes. However, research does not exist only for undergrads... That's absurd.

Why do I need to keep on repeating the same thing? I'm not stupid. I know that international students are more expensive. And I completely understand why there are less international students who get admitted. Please let me know how to write this differently so that people understand that it seems logical to me that there are less international students. Should I say MUCH less international students to make people feel better about it? Ok you got it, MUCH less international students. THAT IS NOT MY POINT. When I applied to Berkeley I knew that every year only 1-2 international students get admitted to the program I applied to (whereas 15 domestic students get admitted). I was aware that the UC schools have financial issues and that public schools are harder to get into for a PhD. It made me sad and all, but I still applied. I knew the chances were extremely low. I thought it was still worth trying. Got rejected. End of story. If UWM doesn't want to admit international students, then they should be open about it from the beginning. And if UWM has two pools and if those in one of them get "frequently" rejected without even being reviewed then it's NOT ok UNLESS they are open about this unfair procedure from the beginning. In my case, Berkeley was worth trying, but I don't think I would have applied to UWM. I would have saved my money to apply to another school (I applied to 8 schools because I didn't want to spend too much, but there were more than 8 schools that I liked...)

Because he is (as well as you and others) are making this thread about whether schools should accept international students or not.

You are basically against international students. You are ignoring all the advantages of having international students...

Can people here have just a little intellectual honesty? Where on Earth did you read me saying that universities should take all international students?

To be honest, I'm even more shocked by most of what I'm reading here than by what UWM did. Do I sense some xenophobia? Once again, I'm not whining about getting rejected from UWM. I don't care about this school anymore. I think that they have a great program and from what I heard it seems like a great school. But it was my last choice. I stopped caring the second I got an interview at one of the other schools I applied to. I wouldn't be upset if I got rejected after being reviewed. I'm upset that they kept on telling me "we'll send invites in two weeks" every two weeks and that they told me that my application would get reviewed only if the first phase didn't fill all the slots available. I didn't post my story on gradcafe out of anger for a school that rejected me. I posted this so that people know what happened. If people think that UWM's attitude is ok, then good for you and you should apply if the program seems to be a good fit. But it was important for me to let people know about it. I would condemn any sort of unethical attitude of a person, company or school, even though it's not going to change ANYTHING in my life.

That's the whole point. International students have to work harder to get into an American school. And universities invest money in us because we have something to offer. I'm glad you got to understand that... Why? If you come from a great university, have excellent grades, recommendation letters, research experience? I'm sorry but professors would fight to have you in their labs. You clearly have no idea how universities work (at least outside of the US).

And also, I never said that international students should be compared 1:1 with domestic students. Please show me where I said that. I just said that universities are interested in having top students regardless of where they come from... I didn't say that they are able to accept students regardless of where they come from and I didn't say that they should.

Of course universities care. They want hard-working students. This is part of "what you can do". And I'm not whining. I'm proud of my achievements. I am proud of having worked that hard. I'm not complaining about the procedure at all. I actually find it extremely rewarding to get accepted after such a hard and competitive admission process. All I am saying is that international students have to prove themselves even more... That was my whole point. Sorry you didn't get that...

It would only make sense that applicants who applied after the deadline are reviewed after the rest... As to the GPA/GRE cutoff and the preference to Biology degrees, universities always tell you that they review everything even though you have a low GPA or GRE and that they are happy to review people with different degrees. It is therefore unethical for them to throw the applications according to that because they told you they are going to review your application. I believe that universities say this because they need your money. A professor in my university used to be on the admission committee in a top tier school (I am not going to give more information because of obvious reasons). She told me that they throw out applications as soon as they arrive and that they do this to get money to spend more time on the other applications. She admitted that it is outrageous but that it was necessary... HOWEVER, I think that if you have a very low GPA and/or GRE, you are aware that you are taking a huge risk in sending your application to a top school because it is widely known that schools filter applications without even reading them. On the other hand, although international students are aware that their chances are extremely low (even though they have high GPA/GRE scores), we are not aware that some schools filter us out without even reviewing our applications and that's the whole point of my post. I wanted international students to know that they should be very careful. That UWM "frequently" does that...

This is quite offensive and it shows that you didn't think this through at all. Do you think that universities accept international students out of charity? Of course not. There's a rationale behind it. 1) A PhD means that you are a student, yes, but it also means that you work for a lab. So they are interested in having outstanding students regardless of where they come from. What gives a school its reputation is the research that happens there. This is why it is so important for them to spend money on PhD students. Don't forget that international students who get into American schools with a stipend and all, worked their asses off. I'm not saying that domestic students did not but I believe it's way more challenging for an international student. The GRE is super hard for a non native speaker. It's also challenging because Americans are used to standardized tests. All the rest is also very unusual for us. The SOP was a very "exotic" exercice for me. We had to learn about basically everything that has to do with American applications (what's a GPA, how to write a CV in an American style, why I should waive my right to read the recommendation letters etc.). All I'm saying is that schools know that if international students are able to have an excellent application, then it means something. At least it means, that they are EXTREMELY motivated. So they know its worth accepting a few international students. Once again, I don't think that domestic students are less deserving. I just think that international students have to prove themselves more in order to get accepted. 2) They want a diverse community. The same way that they don't want 100% straight male WASPs, they want international students because they studied in other countries, they did research in labs that have a different way of doing, they speak other languages, have a different scientific (and non-scientific) culture etc. They can therefore add something to the community. 3) Research is a very international thing. It's all about collaborations, going to seminars in different countries, interacting with people from around the world, doing a part of your career abroad etc. It only makes sense to have international PhD students as well.

Yes... Once again, I'm not complaining about the low admission rates for international students. All the schools I applied to accept much fewer international students.

It's not an international-student specific because if you are American and live abroad, it's the same scenario. Here's what they say on their website "Typically, we receive about 130-150 applications. About 65% of these applications are from domestic students and 35% from international students. Generally, we extend offers to about 20% of these applicants and 40-50% of the students receiving an offer decide to accept." They accept international students as long as they live in the US (or not too far).