Kleene

So, you're also a Dutchie considering going to ETH? Nice. Where did you do your undergrad? I am afraid I have little to contribute in this matter, since I am struggling with similar question. In another field, though: computer science. My other option is Oxford.

I have the impression that the quality in my field (theoretical CS) is rather comparable. I would not be learning German from scratch by the way, but I hope to get to speak it fluently. I can read it all right, but speaking is another cup of tea. Plus, I think you could maintain yourself quite well in Switzerland with just English. Most courses are taught in English. Thanks!

I will have to make a decision between these two awesome institutions. Both courses are (probably) unfunded, so that is not an issue. I am a student from the Netherlands. My field is theoretical computer science. At the moment I think I will continue with a PhD after the Master's. The courses are: Oxford: MSc Mathematics and the Foundations of Computer Science ETH: MSc Computer Science Oxford + Maths! + Living in college + Likeminded people + Reputation + Tutorial system + Written projects instead of exams - More competition - Time frame (12 months October-September) ETH + Time for researchships/internships + Located at the scene (Zurich: Google, IBM, etc.) + Learning German - Trouble finding housing and commuting As you can see, I have a lot of pluses assigned to Oxford. The main thing that is troubling me and causing me to think that ETH might be a better option is the PhD prospects. At Oxford I will have to apply for a PhD only a couple of months into my course. It is a 12 months course as opposed to ETH's 18 months course. Effectively, the duration is similar, since you work throughout the summer at Oxford. This brings me to the fact that in Oxford I will have no opportunity to gain research experience, except for the final project. However, I do not know how much research experience I would be able to gain at ETH either. I am aslo not completely positive that I will go on to a PhD. I might change my mind during the Master's.

First of all, I am not familiar with the two universities you mention. I am, however, struggling with a similar decision. I am also studying theoretical computer science and taking costs, location/housing and the cohort into account. Perhaps my considerations are of some use to you. What exactly do you mean with "lower batch strength"? I think that you mean that your fellow students will be less competition, but please correct me if I am wrong. A weaker cohort is an advantage is the sense that you might have an easier time standing out. On the other hand, you are less likely to study with likeminded people. I don't know about you, but I thrive in situations where I am not by far the most advanced student. IMO you will learn more in an environment where you are a bit more mediocre than in an environment where you are the most advanced student. On the other hand, excelling usually gives confidence which may in turn enhance your achievements, so it is a matter of personal preference. Given that the programs have such different cohorts, you might want to look into the ways of teaching. Small interactive classes versus massive one-way classes. Also look into the specific courses taught and the faculty, and how these fit with your interests. For two unfunded options, the costs would have low priority for me unless the difference was very large. I am facing a similar decision. The difference for me is 11.000 dollars, while the cheaper program is half a year longer. That is not a difference that cannot be overcome, so it will not be leading in my decision.

Use lists of prefixes, roots, suffixes, common mistakes, similar words, etc. A lot of these lists are available online, sometimes as appendix in prep books. Learning vocab this way is much more efficient than just learn the words by themselves.

I am also the first of my generation to go to college. Both of my parents finished high school, but neither went to college. I have an older sister who did not finish high school. I do have a cousin who tried college, but dropped out after a few months. I believe I have an uncle who might have been to college. I am not sure, though. Some people at my university have enthusiastically asked me about my parents and/or siblings, expecting them to have studied (similar subjects). Usually they are rather surprised to learn that none of them went to college. Apparently, it is not quite standard. I myself am at least as surprised when people tell me about their parents who are maths professors or whatever. I have a friend whose both parents got PhDs in physics and both of their kids went on to study physics as well. No, my parents have never been able to help me with any study related issues in the narrow sense. My father works in IT, however, and since I study CS we can talk about some things. My parents have no idea about applications, procedure or whatever, but I really don't mind that. They are extremely supportive and that is what counts. Whenever I need them, they are prepared to brainstorm with me on whatever problem there is. They are very aware of the fact that they don't know the ins and outs of college and grad school, and they will never pretent to have the knowledge but rather think with me in an objective manner. I love them.

Yes, some adcoms might be lenient with your lack of basic classes if you aced advanced classes that require the basic material. Have you got A's in all your advanced classes? IMO failing classes is just not okay. Failing classes and low grades tell adcoms more than you would wish about dedication, perseverance and the ability to complete (uninteresting) work. Your transcripts will reflect an apparent lack of care. To be honest, the fact that in your posts you try to trivialize this, makes it seem to me there might be some truth it in. Please read my reaction to the following quote w.r.t. this. I agree with bsharpe that failing classes is rare and quite bad. No. You should definitely not make excuses. That would probably make you come across as immature. There are no excuses for bad grades. The best way is to acknowledge that you made these mistakes, and try your best not to make them again. In your LORs and especially in your SOP you might want to elaborate a bit on what you learnt/gained from these failures and how you have improved yourself such that you will not make these mistakes again. Plus, do not bother to explain individual grades. That would be definitely seen as making excuses. It is okay to give a general reason for your tendency to underachieve (personal circumtances, or whatever) if there is one. This all depends on the program/department. Some programs inform all accepted applicants first and then all rejects in on batch at the end. I am not sure if you have more indications than just the mere fact that you got your rejection late, but in general it is not helpful to try and make up explanations for things that happen in the application process. So, what is your actual major? Physics? In that case you might want to go with a Master's on the verge of physics and maths as a sort of conversion. No sure if they exist, though. If you do well in your Master's, you will be in a significantly better position to apply for PhDs, especially if you can get some research experience too. Mind you that there are no safety schools for PhDs. Virtually all schools are highly competitive. There is no way to say if you would be able to get in any top 30 school, even if you applied to all of them. Not now, but also not if you managed to improve your application. There are guarantees whatsoever. Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do!

I have such a success story. I could never have dreamt to stand where I stand now. Just hope that posting this is the right decision. My story is a bit extreme perhaps, but I suppose that it is far from unique. I was ahead in school and struggled hard having to do work years beyond my level. (I live in a country where home schooling is not allowed.) I was terribly lazy and still a straight A student. I hardly ever did a thing. I am so embarrassed looking back, but it did not know any better at the time. Socially it was okay (in elementary and high school, anyway), so most of the time I coped though I developed a severe social anxiety due to not being acknowledged. There have been times that I would get depressed. I hit rock bottom in 11th grade, despite being in a very good gifted program. I always tried to find challenges somewhere (extracurriculars, taking additional courses, early college entrance, but also not attending classes, not studying for tests; the whole range of both desired and undesired behaviors), but in 11th grade it was just over. There were no more advanced classes to take, no more classes not to attend. I then decided to skip 12th grade all together. Not because college/university would necessarily be better, since at the time I was convinced I was "just not a student type". I skipped 12th grade, because college could be no worse. And it was not worse. It was better. I could study something that really interested me. For the first time I was not by far the most advanced student and that was (literally) a life saver. I learnt all these things I never learnt in school: taking notes, asking questions, persistance, spending time on something. Somehow I largely overcame my social anxiety. I have no idea how that happened, but I do know that 'fitting in' at least sómewhere is crucial for people. I had never fit in anywhere before, so this was a new experience for me. You can imagine how ambivalent I am about leaving my current institution. I now hold two acceptances for Master's at world top 10 universities. I have this surreal "WTH just happened?" feeling. I cannot help but being very grateful to all my teachers and everyone who believed in me and tried their best to accommodate me. It is thanks to them that I made it through school in the first place. I am very happy to see my school continue to make progress in gifted education. I know for a fact that if I had not been allowed to skip 12th grade, at the very least I would have been nowhere near where I am now. It is very likely that I would have dropped out.

One course that only interviews international students when they are as good as in came back to me two days later.

Still not sure whether I will be attending (MSc Maths and the Foundations of CS). Any word on funding (Clarendon etc.) yet?

I have been admitted to two awesome master programs in computer science. Both are normally unfunded (though much cheaper than American unis and I will probably get some external funding). The quality of the programs is very comparable, though the nature of the programs is very different. Hence, quality and funding are not an issue. The reason I am posting this, is that I would like to hear your opinion on the reputation of both courses/departments/universities. It is not my main consideration, but it is definitely part of the prospects for after graduation. 1. Oxford MSc Mathematics and the Foundations of Computer Science 2. ETH Zurich MSc Computer Science I have an idea about the reputation of the programs, but I would like to verify it through this topic. So, how is the reputation of 1 and 2 in academia, industry and the general population? Please post where you are from and what you are studying so that I can put your replies into perspective. Thanks!

I cannot offer you any advice, but I know where you are. I, too, got accepted by 2 out of 3 programs and have no idea how I will ever make the decision.

Your low verbal (and AW) GRE score may raise a red flag. Normally, these scores are seen in perspective with the TOEFL score. Unfortunately, your TOEFL score is no better. Be aware that 92 is already a lenient requirement. Some of the schools I applied to required a 110 with additional requirements for each skill. I think this unfortunate combination of scores might lead some universities to seriously question your language skills. If you were to reapply or apply to schools with late deadlines, I would recommend you to work on your language (and/or test taking) skills and retake at least the TOEFL. Such low scores put your application are risk for not even being evaluated properly but being discarded at first sight.

Congrats!

March 2013: Found out I would have the opportunity to move for grad school. May 2013: First meeting with course director (for advice on where to apply). September 2013: Second meeting with course director. I took the IELTS test. October 2013: Asked for recommendation writers. I took the GRE. November 2013: Write personal statements and gather other application materials. December 2013: Recommendation writers submitted their letters in time, as did I submit the application. I would have taken the IELTS and GRE earlier if my whole summer was not occupied by a number of trips. I had to rush the tests a bit and would have been in trouble if I did not achieved my goals in the first attempt. If you have an idea of where you want to go, it is perfectly possible to finish the application procedure in the new school year (September onwards). That is why I set myself the goal of at least knowing my target schools before the summer.

I think you can, but I also think you would be better off by calling them. That way you can anticipate on their reaction, explaining and getting them to understand. You will have to elaborate a bit more on your situation than you did in your OP, but you probably figured that. Best of luck and congrats on the acceptance you are happy with!

Thanks! It's a combined course, so it is not as if I would have to choose between two different Oxford courses. x) The choice is between Oxford and ETH Zurich. Still a great problem to have, though.

And it is an admission indeed! How on earth will I ever decide between these two? So, currently no regrets for not applying to more schools. On the contrary.

I got my acceptance today. Fortunately, my condition is more than reasonable.

Wow, I have been accepted to Oxford's pure maths and CS course. I am already dreading the tough decision I will have to make..

I took two practice tests to familiarize myself with the questions. Both were poor: 149V and 151Q, 150V and 163Q. Consequently I started doing tests for real. I learnt some vocabulary (frequent words, similar word, prefixes, suffixes, roots, etc.). I only used the tests to prep. Unfortunately I have not written down which result belongs to which practice test. In chronological order: V 156, 159, 152, 157, 160 Q 168, 169, 168, 169, 169 For the real test I set myself reasonable target scores: 160V and 170Q. It turned out I got 162V and 170Q, which is slightly higher than the practice tests indicated.

I hope you will still get in! Thumbs up. I never heard that they give your average GPA as a conditional offer. That's horrible. I thought they would usually give some reasonable condition: low enough to achieve without worry, yet high enough to ensure you do not slack off too much.

Normally, not meeting an offer means no acceptance. How lenient they are depends on the department. When there is no (student specific) funding involved they usually make a couple more offers than they have places, expecting some people to miss their offer or go elsewhere. I don't understand how you have gotten a conditional offer when you already have your results. Did you tell them you graduated? You missed your offer by such a small margin I think you still have a chance of getting in, but you should definitely ask them right away.

My recommendation writers had different responses: 1. "You are quite ambitious to try there." = A bit incredulous, but neutral. 2. "Great. I am curious to see how it turns out." = Genuinely excited. 3. "It's no good there. You should stay here. It's better here." = I have no idea how to interpret this... I applied to three top schools. I got one accept and one reject so far. I will be interviewing for my third tomorrow.

Let me try to surprise you both, PhDerp and Crucial BBQ. I did my first research project in high school (first semester undergrad, which happened to be at the same time). I did another project a year later. Both were completely unrelated to my degree (astrophysics and marine biology, while I study CS). My undergrad thesis is my first relevant research experience. Therefore, I have no idea what I want to study in grad school. It was only last spring that applying to grad school abroad became an option for me. Prior to that, I had not actively sought to strengthen my application, since grad school in my country requires no research experience. So yeah, research since high school but I never did it for more than the fun of it.