perpetuavix

If they told you that it was okay to take 3 weeks, then it's fine. If they needed an answer sooner, they would've told you. 
On your first question, are you planning to apply to the PhD program at Penn once you have the Masters? I can't imagine you would be accepted for another Masters degree in the same field, even if Penn is a better program. But having been accepted to Penn once indicates you're probably a strong candidate; it seems likely that getting a Masters elsewhere would help your application there. Of course, being accepted one year doesn't in any way guarantee a result in the future; there's just too much randomness in the admissions process for that. But declining their offer now to do another program shouldn't hurt you; departments are used to it. It's also entirely possible that the admissions committee in the future will have entirely new members and no one will know you applied before and you won't have any advantage or disadvantage either way. 

It sounds like both schools have advantages and disadvantages, but I would go with school A, where you have more than one option for an advisor. You might not personally fit well with one of them, or they might not be able to take students on when you're ready, or they might leave entirely. If you have multiple options from the start, you're more likely to find someone that you can work with long term.

I don't think anyone here is going to 'attack' you with anything more than downvotes. Since I don't have experience with DePaul or the city of Chicago, it is still worth pointing out that for the most part your comments were not helpful to the OP. Ok, so the culture of the university might be 'lame' and the city might be 'second-rate.' But given what the OP said it seems that she wants to continue doing serious research in her area of interest while also obtaining an international joint degree. DePaul is a good school to study philosophy at, especially phenomenology. Whether or not it is artsy or counterculture seems to be something that one should dictate to the culture of the area and not the other way around. If you want to hang out with a certain scene of people, I am sure there are others who share your interests. I don't see how it could be helpful to your desire to have more alternative people and culture at DePaul by telling others who might share that desire not to attend...
 
Enough of this trollish, mostly unhelpful digression.
 
I second the recommendation of Chicago. Also worth a mention is McGill in Montreal, they have a great program, but I do not know who you should contact directly. Other programs that would be worth looking at further, but maybe aren't at the top (Like Chicago, Toronto and McGill), are Stony Brook (one of the best in Continental Philosophy), Vanderbilt, Northwestern, Emory, Fordam, and Duquesne. They all should have people working on phenomenology. Since my list is not exhaustive, look at:
 
http://pluralistsguide.org/program-recommendations/continental-philosophy/#awp::program-recommendations/continental-philosophy/
 
This should give you an idea of the ones worth investigating further. The ones you mentioned and mentioned so far are probably the best, but there really are a lot of schools that might be worth looking at (I don't know why Chicago is not on the list, they are one of the best overall and especially in Continental).
 
To answer your question about funding, it seems that you are on the wrong side of the deal. UK schools are relatively expensive and then US schools are even more expensive. They tend to offer funding for their own students and then allow them to study abroad and even obtain joint degrees. For example, King's College London offers a joint philosophy degree with Humboldt in Berlin and with Singapore. So the cost of attending a US university is more than the typical foreign university, so they offer to pay for your studies abroad (since the typical US PhD is fully funded with a living stipend). To sum up, it seems difficult that you will get funding from these institutes without first being accepted into their program and then studying abroad. I would think your best bet is to see what sort of funding the Sorbonne would offer for this and to contact schools you are interested in directly. Their information is far better than mine, but I hope I was a little bit helpful.

Have that phone handy on April 15. I got a call three years ago on April 15, from SLU's chair, offering a fully-funded PhD. If I felt at that time as you do now, I would have taken the offer. I agree with the view expressed above, that if you're admitted to a PhD program which you like, it's often best just to take the position. If you have doubts about the program, I think the calculation changes.
 
I can't help you too much on the UK versus US master's-level programs, except that I can say that either Georgia State or Brandeis would probably help you do well in PhD admissions. If the goal is something like a SLU, and if you're already wait-listed at SLU this time around, I just have to believe that you'll very likely do just fine after Brandeis or Georgia State. A lot of people who go to Brandeis or Georgia State don't apply very widely. I'm an extreme example of someone who attended a strong MA, didn't apply widely, and ended up without an offer. The candidates who do apply widely are typically admitted somewhere. I know of no candidates who applied widely and were not admitted somewhere.
 
Just a note to everyone, generally: If you are still on a wait-list and sort of don't have any idea where you stand as of right now, I wouldn't be afraid to contact departments early this week to see whether you're still well-positioned (or positioned at all) on the wait-lists. Also, it probably goes without saying that, when you are admitted to more than one place, at this stage (April 12!), it's time to narrow the list to that one.
 
The rule of etiquette is: "Hold onto as few offers as necessary, and by early April (or the absolute earliest point at which a reasonably prudent person could have learned all the relevant information to make an informed decision), hold only just your favorite offer, until either (a) April 15, or ( b ) you remain on no wait-lists, at which point you should make a final and irrevocable decision." This rule permits full investigations of all offers and maximizes the speed at which departments are permitted to work through long wait-lists.

Yeah, you should be outraged!  You are right that it's "utterly ridiculous."  
 
What a relief you are so smart and cunning to detect such a fraudulent scam.  How dare a program ask for a deposit to save a seat for an applicant that is accepted.
 
Don't all schools know that everyone who is accepted into a program will automatically attend?  It's not as if applicants apply to multiple schools and many get more than one offer. 
 
Yes, you should definitely complain to the graduate school.  They need to be admonished and rebuked for their greediness and for this ridiculous and absurd request.  They probably won't rescind your offer of admission and instead will reimburse you and offer you free tuition.  Don't they know how lucky they are to have you attend their program? So yes, they should fully fund you and heck, compensate you for your initial application too!
 
Hurry before it's too late.  Complain and protest immediately!  

To the earlier conversation: I decided to go with the unranked PhD. I applied to the school not as a backup, but because of the specific faculty. For a while I was persuaded against it for "practical" reasons, but in the end, sometimes the most practical considerations are not just statistical job placements and data analysis from Leiter et al. Sometimes the most practical thing is to ensure personal growth, because so long as education and genuine attempts toward wisdom are disregarded in favor of scholarly trends and financial considerations, we can't say that we're doing philosophy. Many thanks to the earlier posters who kept this in mind! It was comforting to hear, what with all the other "practical" (read: prestige) concerns owing to application stress weighing down on me. This whole process is crazier than I expected!

If they don't contact you, you've been rejected. This is a very common if infuriating practice. My two cents: don't waste your time calling them, and getting put on hold etc. Accept your fate and move on to better things.

kjgw06, if I may ask, how much scholarship is NSSR giving you? If what you say is true, and both schools are giving you near equal amounts of aid, then to be honest I would recommend you decline both and try again next year. While it is true that the admissions process is almost entirely unpredictable and you may get no offers next year, in retrospect I think no acceptances is better than going into deep debt for an MA in philosophy, which coming from either of those schools will by no means guarantee you a spot in an elite PhD program, and will not prepare you to do anything else. I know it's hard to hear, but I really wish I had taken an extra year to reevaluate and strengthen my application than jumping at NSSR's offer with 33% tuition assistance. If you really can't stomach the notion of declining both offers, then I would urge you to take the option that minimizes your financial risk, which is certainly Temple. 

I don't see where he is upset? Seems like a pretty normal case of a prof wanting you to attend his institution and trying to persuade you...

Ian > Leiter

My partner finished the NYU general psych Masters program with research experience, really strong letters, high grades, excellent GRE scores, a publication, and a poster presentation. He was shut out this year. There's enough randomness in PhD admissions that even if you go to NYU and take on all that debt, you might not get in anywhere. And then you'll have a lot of debt. 
If I were you, I would wait another year and reapply. Second choice would be to attend OU and plan to transfer out (although there's something somewhat ingenuous about starting a program that you already know you want to leave). 
 
 
 
PAYE and IBR only apply to federal loans, so they're not always options for every loan. Having to repay 6 figure debt (even on reduced payment plans or with loan forgiveness after a certain time) can still substantially impact your financial future. It's harder to get more credit if you already have a lot of debt. I don't think it's unreasonable to avoid taking on large amounts of debt, even in light of IBR. 

My partner finished the NYU general psych Masters program with research experience, really strong letters, high grades, excellent GRE scores, a publication, and a poster presentation. He was shut out this year. There's enough randomness in PhD admissions that even if you go to NYU and take on all that debt, you might not get in anywhere. And then you'll have a lot of debt. 
If I were you, I would wait another year and reapply. Second choice would be to attend OU and plan to transfer out (although there's something somewhat ingenuous about starting a program that you already know you want to leave). 
 
 
 
PAYE and IBR only apply to federal loans, so they're not always options for every loan. Having to repay 6 figure debt (even on reduced payment plans or with loan forgiveness after a certain time) can still substantially impact your financial future. It's harder to get more credit if you already have a lot of debt. I don't think it's unreasonable to avoid taking on large amounts of debt, even in light of IBR. 

Here's some things that may be worth asking:
what they're currently working on (as many people's research projects evolve faster than their webpages or publications) how often they are around campus if they've recently switched departments, why they chose to do so how many students they currently have, and what they're working on what they most recently taught grad seminars on I wouldn't be afraid to tell them a bit about your research interests either, maybe your thesis, etc., and get some of their off the cuff responses.

To be fair, though, it was a reply to a post that did sound exactly that way: 
 
 
(And I resisted before, but "females"? What am I, a cat or a dog? Also, this.)

Uh, no. The comment was inappropriate and misogynistic. Joke or not, this is not a place for these kind of comments. And this is coming from a guy...

^ Hah. Lots of people taking this comment way too seriously. 
 
No matter how objective you try to be in situations like this, people will try to play it off like you're favoriting the student if it becomes apparent you two are involved. Depending on your school's policies, this could very plausibly lead to a huge mess and set you back in some way. But that's already been said. I'd tell her that you need to stop things (whatever those 'things' may be, no matter how minimally intimate or flirty they are) immediately until the semester is over. 

7 replies and nobody has bothered to ask for the relevant data in this situation?  
 
Pictures, man. We need to see pictures of this girl before we advise on the correct course of action.

Users that personally attack others (mocking usernames etc.) are issued warnings and monitored.
 
Everyone is free to state your opinions on the quality of Canada and Canadian schools, but do it in a way that respect other users. Respectful opinions lead to useful discussion and I think it is a good thing that these thoughts are being discussed and uninformed opinions are corrected.
 
To respond to the latest question:
 
 
No, Bernard is not right. During the recession in 2009, the Canadian banks and real estate markets stayed stable while US housing and banks needed to be bailed out. I would say that the Canadian economy is indeed reliant on the US economy because the US and China are our biggest trading partners. The US economy is obviously bigger than Canada -- the US population is 10 times the size of Canada. However, both economies are healthy and strong and at the level you'd care about for graduate school, both economies will serve you fine.
 
The UofT strike has nothing to do with the Canadian economy. I'm a little surprised (but happy) that there is so much worldwide coverage on this actually. Employees (including graduate students) at Universities are unionized in Canada (many more unions in Canada than the US). Usually, the process works well and there is a little tension when negotiations happen but things will work out. Going to an actual strike is less common but it happens at a school in Canada every few years (sometimes it's the students, sometimes it's the professors, sometimes it's the maintenance staff etc.) I would say this is all part of the normal labour bargaining process, not a sign that the economy is failing. 
 
Some might say that strikes are a sign of the system failing and while it is true that a strike (or lockout) is a failure to bargain fairly, I would rather have strikes than the inability to bargain and being forced to accept poor working conditions.
 
As for job opportunities, it depends on what your field is and what your goals are. If your goal is a job in the US then yes, going to a US school will definitely help you because you can make more US connections (staying in country = no visa issues). But if you are just trying to find work anywhere, a McGill PhD will serve you just as well as similar ranked schools in the US (ranked 20-30). For what it's worth, at my top US program, we regularly accept Canadian students and postdocs and they tend to all come from the big 3 Canadian schools (McGill, Toronto, UBC). McGill is one of the big names in the US -- when I tell people I'm Canadian, they try to guess which school I'm from and their first guess is usually McGill.

I would be very surprised if a department thought the AWA was the most important section. It rewards a very specific type of writing that doesn't correlate with good philosophy writing. You can score well by first, writing a lot, then making sure you use varied vocabulary and sentence structure/length. I'm sure some philosophers write like that, but I'm also sure we've all read a piece that uses a precisely defined word to the point of excess. I've also heard at least one DGS say the writing score doesn't matter. 
 
OP, why did you apply somewhere where it sounds like you knew you wouldn't be interested in their offer? I know that everyone is encouraged to apply widely, but why spend the money and time filling out an application at a place you wouldn't want to go? Or are you just disappointed that you didn't get in anywhere else?
I agree with the consensus that it would be crazy to turn down a funded offer. But if you really think you cannot be happy there and you can improve your materials for next year, maybe you should turn them down. 

The DN post is down, but here's the text: 
The Philosophy Department of the University of California, Irvine has extended five (!) senior offers this job season. They are to:

Annalisa Coliva (University of Modena and Reggio Emilia) — philosophy of mind, epistemology, metaphysics and the history of analytic philosophy

Lori Gruen (Wesleyan University) — ethics, animal ethics, environmental philosophy, feminist theory

Sarah Paul (University of Wisconsin-Madison) — philosophy of action, philosophy of mind, practical reason

Duncan Pritchard (University of Edinburgh) — epistemology

Karl Schafer (University of Pittsburgh) — ethics, epistemology, the history of modern philosophy, Kant

No word yet on whether any of the offers have been accepted.
 
I like to include my sources, so it came from here http://philosophym3blog.blogspot.com/2015/03/happy-birthday-oswald-von-nell-breuning.html#comment-form but the metablog is pretty much the reddit of philosophy blogs so I really can't recommend reading it. 

The DN post is down, but here's the text: 
The Philosophy Department of the University of California, Irvine has extended five (!) senior offers this job season. They are to:

Annalisa Coliva (University of Modena and Reggio Emilia) — philosophy of mind, epistemology, metaphysics and the history of analytic philosophy

Lori Gruen (Wesleyan University) — ethics, animal ethics, environmental philosophy, feminist theory

Sarah Paul (University of Wisconsin-Madison) — philosophy of action, philosophy of mind, practical reason

Duncan Pritchard (University of Edinburgh) — epistemology

Karl Schafer (University of Pittsburgh) — ethics, epistemology, the history of modern philosophy, Kant

No word yet on whether any of the offers have been accepted.
 
I like to include my sources, so it came from here http://philosophym3blog.blogspot.com/2015/03/happy-birthday-oswald-von-nell-breuning.html#comment-form but the metablog is pretty much the reddit of philosophy blogs so I really can't recommend reading it. 

The DN post is down, but here's the text: 
The Philosophy Department of the University of California, Irvine has extended five (!) senior offers this job season. They are to:

Annalisa Coliva (University of Modena and Reggio Emilia) — philosophy of mind, epistemology, metaphysics and the history of analytic philosophy

Lori Gruen (Wesleyan University) — ethics, animal ethics, environmental philosophy, feminist theory

Sarah Paul (University of Wisconsin-Madison) — philosophy of action, philosophy of mind, practical reason

Duncan Pritchard (University of Edinburgh) — epistemology

Karl Schafer (University of Pittsburgh) — ethics, epistemology, the history of modern philosophy, Kant

No word yet on whether any of the offers have been accepted.
 
I like to include my sources, so it came from here http://philosophym3blog.blogspot.com/2015/03/happy-birthday-oswald-von-nell-breuning.html#comment-form but the metablog is pretty much the reddit of philosophy blogs so I really can't recommend reading it. 

I'll be perfectly honest, and I hope this doesn't come off as overly harsh. I think it is a little disingenuous to enter a PhD with the intention of transferring out after a year or two. The program went through a lot of effort deciding between applicants and offered you admission because they think you'll do well in their program and they believe they have a lot to offer you in training you in your stated areas of interest. They are going to be putting a lot of resources into training you. It seems a little unfair to them to accept that with the intention of jumping ship to your dream school, and asking for recommendations along the way.
 
Of course there are some valid reasons for transferring out: your adviser leaves or is too difficult to work with, your research interests change and no longer match with the department's strengths, you are not or cannot thrive in the city you're in, etc. In these cases it is perfectly understandable to leave the program and I think your professors would do everything they can to help you do so. But I don't think that transferring out because you're not in your dream program falls into that acceptable category.
 
You don't know that everything will be perfect if you get into your dream school. It's very likely that the grass may not be so green once you get there. If you really feel that you have to get into that school, I think the most responsible and fair way of doing it is to turn down your offers and reapply next year, but that carries a huge risk as there is no way of knowing if you'll get in anywhere next year. But I think it's unfair to use one of the schools you were accepted to as a stepping stone, and I don't think you'll be able to rely on getting good reference letters. There is also the possibility that if you ask for them and tell your professors that you're trying to transfer out to the one that got away, solely for that reason, you risk burning some bridges and having them turn sour on you.

My long distance move story: I knew my spouse and I were moving across country (NY to WA) and looked at many of the options people have already suggested here. When I looked at my gmail, there was a banner ad for cheap moving services. I clicked the link, which was not for a specific company but sent my info to many, many moving companies. I got a bunch of phone calls and emails over the next day. Some of them were not very useful, but we easily got at least 8 quotes from different companies. We called the cheapest company ($1400 to move 300 cf across the country). We ended up going with them. Ultimately, we moved more stuff (probably about 450 cf, which included a bed, futon, dresser, 2 bookshelves, table, 4 chairs, chest, desk, vacuum, and about 50 boxes) for just over $2000. I had a moving stipend from my department to help pay for it. But the majority of the quotes we got were for less than any other option. There are A LOT of budget moving companies out there that are trying to undercut each other. Some of them are really terrible (check BBB) and all of them will try and find ways to make you pay more through various fees. The one we used gave us a big runaround on moving day because the inventory we had submitted online to guarantee our quote was binding (ie I was supposed to magically be able to correctly estimate the number of boxes I needed to move before I moved them, and since we had more boxes than I originally thought, they told us they would only take the number I had said. That was not fun, but we worked it out). When we moved into our place on this end of the country, the guy who moved our stuff into the building tried to charge us for four flights of stairs, because even though we live on the third floor (ie up to flights) each flight is divided into two, so there's four landings. He did not prevail in getting me to pay that. But as long as you ask repeatedly about the fees and make sure you understand what you're agreeing to, it ended up being both cheaper and less work on our part to use a real moving company. 
 
These websites seem similar to what I used to get multiple quotes:
http://www.moving.com/movers/moving-company-quotes.asp
https://www.unpakt.com/

Happiness is important; it can be the difference between finishing your program and not. But, it turns out people are actually really bad at predicting their future happiness, so it's hard to make a decision wholly based on happiness. 
What about school B makes you think you'll be happier there? Is it that other people are happy there? Do you think the things that they're happy about will make you happy?
It seems (to me) like school A might actually make you happier in the long run (better research fit, more resources,  and more balanced course requirements). Is there something about school A that you think you won't like? Are other students there unhappy?