jacib

I think it really depends on the program and the discipline. If your field studies "topics" its not a problem, but if your field has a "method" it might be. Sociology programs, for example, generally frown on applications to other programs (I know this from emailing professors). I heard several times that it would show that you're, quote, note a serious student, endquote. Religion programs, on the other hand, don't really seem to care.

Yeah sorry writing an essay wasn't problematic. I wrote about having legal residency in five different countries, and how I'm sick of theories that apply to only one region or religion, and how every good theory needs to work outside of the American experience and for bonus points I used the term "Global South" and how I have unique perspective because of all those experiences which relates directly to my SoP wherein I mention that most of the existent theory covering my field of interest is horrible Eurocentric (so true). Which is pretty much the same essay I wrote for Santa Barbara not too long ago. Which was also much more specific in it's prompt categories (check however many of the following apply and explain them in an essay). However, I still don''t know what this essay was being used for . That's why I was asking the question.

...if you want to do medical sociology or sociology of disability this would be a great place to talk about it! Seriously I think they want to see challenges and illness is certainly a challenge. I like the sound of your first essay, it sounds similar to mine... but more interesting. I would say, ten year undergraduate sounds like it ought to be mentioned, and it sounds like there were definitely struggles and obstacles to overcome... but they want to hear about you overcoming, not making excuses, I would say. You could say, "additionally as I teacher, I hope I can work on retaining students in otherwise challenging circumstances. My undergraduate experience was (affected, I wish it was affected) by quality teachers & administrators who encouraged me to stay in." and then talk about that? Again, though, I'm as in the wilderness as you are. But I don't think it would be inappropriate to use this space to talk about all challenges in your life. Emphasize the overcoming, not the challenges though I'd reiterate again. My old man (a sociology professor) went through my SoP and marked all the places I had negative things and told me to restate them positively (mainly about why I switched from religious studies to sociology). I think this is the right place for it, but keep it positive.

I doubt they'll remember, though they might notice the little box you checked. Who knows if they'll care and then "look for improvement"? I wouldn't mention it as "since my last application, I've done xyz" but instead I'd say, "Over the past year, I have .... "

Dude, first of all, I love the phrase "normal as a cop". Is it original to you? Living in Chicago, we used to refer to vast tracks of working class white, semi-suburban land within the city limits as "cop neighborhoods" (especially the Irish neighborhoods on the South Side like Beverly etc). Yeah I was just frustrated with the whole diversity project after reading "The Disadvantages of an Elite Education", and it seemed like anything that focused so much on experiences that related to your project wouldn't necessarily capture blah blah blah. Most of my interesting experiences shaped my mind, but not my project so much. As for the Berkeley prompt, you both might be right: a department and the school might have different ones. I know in sociology that's the case.

Yeah, my father is a sociologist and emailed a lot of his colleagues for me about GRE scores. Granted, sociology is different from Computer science, but one colleague (at an Ivy league University) said, "We have not always ruled people out on low GREs. But generally people have at least around 630-650 in each. Sometimes verbal is a little higher and math a little lower. Foreign students often get by with lower verbal because they have higher math." One guy at a top ten public university said, "The percentiles have changed a lot over the years. I would say anything over the 90th percentile (just don't remember what the most recent numbers are) is considered a good score; below 70ath is a bad score" and then added "Then there's the third part, and I have no idea how to weight the [analytical writing]. Personally, i ignore it but look very closely at the essay and personal statement as well as the writing sample the student turns in." Finally another professor at a different top ten public university listed the averages for 2008 and 2009 admitted students (2009 scores were on average 25 points higher in each section) but then added, "Of course, what really matters is the writing sample and statement of purpose."

There is often a standard deviation question. Like, "If you add one of these numbers to this set, how will it change the standard deviation". You kinda have to know what SD is but it will NOT be a calculation heavy thing.

Yeah this is the argument I totally didn't mean to start... I think we agree more than we disagree. I have lived a really great life, full of wonderful, rare experiences (hell I'm living in Istanbul right now...). But I mean, as I understood it originally, these essays are more about funding than other things, and it's mainly to offer a chance to those who in some way have suffered educational disadvantages... which I think is what it should do. That's what I meant in my original "diversity essay" comments up top. A kid who graduated who went to East Bungsville Regional High School and then Flyover State University -- Flagship while working full time probably deserves to have the fact that the same numbers probably mean more than it does from someone who went from Choate to Yale while never lifting a finger. I have plenty of things I could write about. Everyone does. I think I am actually pretty different, though not relating to the condition of my birth. I was wondering what role exactly these played beyond giving extra financial aid. No one knows, apparently. Like, is it considered strongly like it was in undergrad or will it be mostly just pushed aside during the admission process and used maybe as a tie-breaker? I'm not saying that white people aren't diverse. I'm saying that, based on socio-economic factors, I do not qualify for what they mean by diversity. Nor do I plan on working particularly close with under-served communities, though I would like to volunteer teaching SATs after teaching them for a year here, that's not worth more than a sentence or two. Most of my intellectual development has come from books, which is not what the prompt seems to want. In terms of intellectual interest, my experiences come in a distant second. I was wondering if it should be about what actually made me want to study this (which would be a reading list supplemented by memorable comments by important professors I've had) or if it should be about my "diversity", because for me they're different topics. It seems to be that this is not about what actually influenced me on my "journey". Which is the answer to the question I was looking for. Also, in my field we're specifically trained to avoid the "language of uniqueness". Sorry pet peeve, I know that must sound bitchy, but it's a really really big problem when you're studying religion!

Dude... never talk down to the Midwest. You know what the Midwest is: young and reckless. I'd be so happy to end up back in the Midwest. And I was born an East Coast elitist. I assume by your home town you mean hog butcher to the world, the city of big shoulders (because its the only Midwestern city I can think of with two or more schools...). Just wait until you go to another city and you have to actually give directions instead of a street address... I can't think of a railroad station in another city where I've seen Amish people. Imagine living in a place where they put KETCHUP on their HOT DOGS, or there is only one local baseball team that disappoints. People really are different outside the Midwest... people will walk on the sidewalks so much faster. How many people do I know who were robbed on the South Side who were allowed to keep their wallets if they just coughed up their money. Like, that's the kind of empathy you just won't find in other regions.

Man, my grandmother is from Appalachia. She remembers when the TVA first brought electricity to her town. She didn't touch a telephone until she was 19 and moved to California. My other three grandparents were all born abroad, and were escaping very particular things in their home countries (in two cases, certain death). They could all write really, really good personal histories. All lily white. And they would deserve to be considered diverse. I, on the other hand, don't deserve it, and it feels cheap for me to say "Yeah my grandparents totally faced all this hardship, man." I'm saying that my upbringing was touched and it seems silly to have to pretend it wasn't. I'm also saying that the person who wrote comments on that Berkeley essay is a total moron. If you don't think those comments seem patronizing, then I can debate that, but this is the exact opposite of a "I'm white and we're unfairly persecuted by affirmative action". The consensus seems to be that yes, this is a diversity essay, as opposed to a "why did you become interested in this subject" essay, which was my question. It seems silly to make a diversity essay mandatory, because then it cheapens the actual differences. If everyone is a unique little snow flake and we're all diverse people who've faced hardships, what's the point? To turn it into a suffering pissing contest? but yeah... rereading my original post, I don't think I make it clear that I do think diversity has a place in the application process, it does. But I wish it was just clearer what these were actually used for.

I actually had to google that acronym. What is this, a law school board? That response was TTT and IMO ITE we need to express ourselves as clearly as possible to guarantee our future financial success. FYI You must be either a hippie or old. Or a minority who is trying to steal the spot promised to me at birth by divine right. If surfing is important to someone, I can totally respect that. Though I'm applying to two programs outside outside of cities, it's wicked important for me to be able to go to punk/hardcore shows. I've lived for the past two and a half years in Turkey, and while Istanbul is wonderful, it lacks certain cultural experiences (by which yes, I do mean punk shows), that I want from life. I've ended up kind of viewing it as a necessary sacrifice to learn Turkish. I mean, c'mon, I missed the Unbroken reunion show! Unbroken! And the Small Brown Bike reunion! Both would have been in Chicago too! Finally, 1. I think there is something to be said for rankings, a lot to be said for producing quality work, but sometimes if there is a good fit (here's that dreaded word again), it can make a lot of difference. Secularism is one of the main issues I'm interested in and, excluding political scientists (that is, counting people in Religion, Sociology or Anthropology), there is almost no one working on it. For that, reason, I've been widely encouraged by every faculty member I've contacted to look at CUNY Anthropology simply because Talal Asad is there, and he's pretty much "the guy". While I will confess to a rankings-based mindset generally, it can't all be rankings based. (see my unnumbered third point) 2. I think we understand fit differently. If you are looking at a relatively popular subject, let's say America in History, 19th Century British Novels in English, Systematic Theology in Religion, African-Americans in Sociology, Painting in MFA, China in Anthropology, whatever, you can pretty much apply anywhere because any school will have those things. However, speaking only to my own experience, if you're interested in a lesson common field, you have to find someone appropriate. If you're not studying America, for instance, you need someone comfortable with that general area. My interests (religion in Turkey, which inherently deals with politics and Islam and minorities) are no less broad than, say, the 20th century American novel, but there are a lot of people working on 20th century American literature as a broad field and few people working on Turkey at all or Islam outside the Arab world at all. Different schools also seem to have very different ideas of good fits: of the religion programs I contacted, Duke and Northwestern have pretty similar resources for what interests me. In fact, Duke has one Islamist, while Northwestern has two. However, the guy at Duke thinks I'm a decent fit while the Northwestern guy said I should apply, but if there is a better fit, they'll take her over me. My idea of "fit" is very general--at least one person working on Modern Islam in any way, shape, or form; at least one person working on issues of religion and politics, or even religion and identity; preferably a place that also offers Turkish language classes. (Which brings up the whole language issue: if you want to work with languages, you might need to know them already... or start learning them really soon). I mean, I think I want to write about myth making in the Secularist project, but I could end up writing about the Turkish government involved in the religious affairs of Turkish immigrants to Germany. Hell, I could write about something entirely different, like "homegrown terrorism", or how religion relates to national idenity. But I have general interests in Islam and politics, and a generally disinterest in learning Arabic. As a finally point, I think the points actual can be combined. Let's for example, look at the USNWR rankings for history. There are overall rankings, which are then broken down into several subcategories. I mean, there is a lot of correlation between the overall scores and those of individual categories, but not in ever case. Consider Women's History. They rank Rutgers number one, so presumably, if you study women's history there, you'll get a better job. Then again, Rutgers is ranked twentieth overall. And as you get out of the top ten, into smaller departments, I'm sure these differences magnify. Perhaps, then, if you're interested in women's history, you should apply to Rutgers because it is ranked higher in that field. Well, what about all the other sub-disciplines? The ones that aren't officially ranked? Basically, "fit" does mean rankings... but only rankings within a very particular subfield. One would hope that those looking to hire you realize this, and from what I can see, that might well be true (especially if the department looking to hire you already has someone in that subfield). My old man is a medical sociologist and he can just reel off lists of medical sociologists, which sociology programs produce which type of graduates, where the top spots for medical sociology are, etc. And you'll notice that medical sociology, which is definitely a recognized field (as opposed to say "Religion in Turkey"), isn't even listed on the USNWR subcategory rankings. So I don't think you're instance on rankings and others instance on fit are so far apart as you might think. But that's just me, and it's almost 5 in the morning in this time zone.

Yo, just to point out something which just occurred to me while reading ColorlessGreen's good advice that I'm sure the other two of the three latest posters feel : Your revisions are huge improvements over the original and definitely make it more interesting. I hope you don't feel like we're unnecessarily criticizing. Keep improving it and it will have the good content of the original, with an improved, sleek form.

C'mon, everyone's panicking and wants some reassuring information. For those of you worried about numbers, it seems like they get you to the table? And are maybe tie breakers? Funding? Who the fuck knows? A lot of what I hear, how well your SoP is written doesn't even matter that much. It's fit fit fit. I think? I mean we're all shooting in the dark. I know that the scores don't matter so much because several of the programs I wanted to go to which seemed like they might work for me emailed me back. Granted, I didn't email every program and by its nature its a selected sample, but of those programs, two said not to apply, two said apply but we probably won't accept you, one (a program with a 5% admit rate) said you'd be a good fit. That is, they said this based on the idea of my project, not my scores or actually SoP or anything. Not even the idea of my project, but the broad topic. One thing though is that this board is overwhelmingly positive. A lot of helpful encouraging people are on here, "Oh you'll do fine" "Did you check out this program? It could be cool for your interests" "Next time you take the GRE do this" "You could improve your SoP like this" etc. etc. No one says shit like, "With those scores you think you're going to get in? Are you mildly retarded?" or "Don't apply there, it's second tier and we all know that second tier colleges are training grounds for lecherous perverts who will only ever get non-tenured jobs at community colleges in rural Alaska" You should check out the law school boards my roommate looks at. I don't understand them even because it's all this intense, pejorative slang. Did you know that TTT stands for "Third-tier toilet"? Nor did I. Under their influence, my roommate started to explain to me the immorality of second tier schools offering law degrees. Their students will never be able to pay back their debts, he said, because top firms only hire people from the top 14 law schools. It was ridiculous that this otherwise smart kid didn't even stop to think about what a small percentage of cases those top firms actually handle. While their is plenty of fishing for compliments and preening here, it's not as bad as I would expect; this place has its downsides, but I have been quite impressed by the levels of civility and helpfulness here.

I hate the whole "the passive should always be avoided" hogwaddle. It's weird, it's such a (North?) American thing. My English roommate says he never heard the whole anti-passive spiel until he came to America for University. It's ridiculous, my old man is a professor and he's gotten articles back from peer review with notes like "take out this passive voice" and he'll have to write "actually, that's the present perfect progressive..." Anyway, take a look back at your Strunk & White. Look at the section on passive: four examples are given, only one is actually the passive voice. [see in that sentence, I was allowed by the passive voice to set up a more elegant parallel (four.. only one) than the "the book gives four examples, but only one is actually the passive the voice"] Peppermint.beatnik, the revision of the last sentence is not the passive voice (though her original sentence was). The revision is an active sentence with a noun clause ("what attracted me"). Though I agree, Lauren, you could revise your revision, if you wanted to. That particular kind of noun clause is often unnecessary and just adds extra words: Original: I was attracted to [the School] for graduate study because of xyz. Revised: xyz is what attracted me to [the School] for graduate study. Possible revision (a): xyz strongly attracts me to [this school] for graduate study. Possible revision (: [This school's] strength in xyz initially drew my attention. Another possible revision, your sentence "Learning xyz was disappointing" would probably be stronger if combined with the next sentence (whatever that might be), "While learning xyz was disappointing, I...(did something positive! yeah!)"

Send it to the correct department code. Don't worry, the process is pretty self explanatory once you start it. ETS doesn't send anything directly the department, I don't think. There are different options for the schools, but I think generally the schools get DVDs of all the test scores ordered during a specific period and then someone at graduate admissions will distribute to the correct department or, if admission are collated centrally, kept there. If you are applying for something where you can't find the correct department code (it might not be as clear for interdisciplinary programs like liberal studies or something, I don't know), check the programs's website. Most will list a GRE code, even though you'll notice that every PoliSci department uses the same code, every Sociology uses the same code, etc. etc. etc.

I know! I had a similar question here which wasn't super-well answered in Berkeley lists an example of what they want here, which makes it seem like this is entirely about diversity (check out the offensively patronizing comments on the essay). I'd be curious to know if the department says anything to you. I wrote my Santa Barbara diversity question (where you checked boxes about your eight possible kinds of diversity) about living in (to use their ridiculously term) "bicultural communities" by having had temporary legal residency in several countries. I don't know, I've actually gotten quite worked about this. It seems like they emphasize any diversity you were born with. I've been working on it in light of reading "The Disadvantages of an Ivy League Education" [discussed so its been tempting to compare it with my life experiences (growing up in a small town, working on a farm where I was the only "college type", punk rock shows as the only places I've seen where high-school drop-outs and people with graduate degrees interact on equal terms) even though none of those have anything to do with my research project. In your situation, I'd guess unconventional academic journey emphasis with perhaps brief, well-integrated mentions of understanding the struggles others as part of your personal development, mainly because it's supposed to be about you. That is my impression, not some written-in-stone truth.

Designation, I don't know, "Rhodes Scholar" or "Outstanding German Student", grantor would be the institution (be in your university or department or foundation), in recognition of would would be "Dedication to community service" or "superlative thesis project" or something.

Yeah I already wrote my Santa Barbara one using their bogus term "bicultural communities" (either the school or the religion department provided a really useful list of eight possible kinds of diversity that you could check off...I scored two and a half!) about how I've had legal residency in several countries. I was just wondering if I should send in that exact same essay and be done with it, or if it was worth taking time and redoing the whole thing. Cross reference to a similar question in the sociology thread:

Since Religious Studies is already interdisciplinary, there are plenty of schools where one can do this. UCSB comes to mind first. There are some really really cool people at Northwestern (Robert Orsi especially). Chicago has some people too (if you're into religion and politics, Martin Marty is obviously there, but I think he's retired... oh well, Marty Center still exists, and Omar McRoberts is no social science slouch... he does a lot for the SSSR). Actually I'd check out the SSSR website. Toronto has bunches of cool people. Alabama is TINY but if your interests match with the people there, I have a feeling they'd let you be interdisciplinary, I really respect a lot of those guys. Again, I had to cross out so many schools because they were too Christian based, but U.Va. might be a good place to look (both in Religion and Sociology), Princeton too. If your project is about, say, Christianity and Law in America, there is a-whole-nother batch of places to apply to, and while I know people are working on that, who doesn't spring very quickly to mind. Additionally, there are very tracks which are more "social science-y": Duke has a "Religion and Modernity", Harvard (if you already have a masters) has "Religion and Society", BU has "Religion and Society", Princeton has "Religion, Ethics and Politics", and I'm sure there are others.

Peppermint Beatnik... are you Canadian? You said write the exams instead of take them.

The Salon article referenced above is here.

Is anyone else applying to Berkeley? This is just a diversity statement in a very thin disguise, right? I found this example here: http://ls.berkeley.edu/soc/diversity/apply/personalstatement1.html from the amount of times the critic notes how wonderful the author's mention of her "ethnic origins" and "cultural identity" are... like it's a diversity statement. If it is, I just wish they'd call a spade a spade and say, "Hey white boy, save your time and only write something here if you feel like it." I'm in favor of affirmative action, but the comments on the essay above seem like an honest-to-God parody that cheapens the applicant. If it's only about race and/or indigent childhood, shouldn't they say that?

On the PowerPrep test, I got a 790 and 800 quant. On the Barron's tests, I got in the 600s on both computer tests. On the real GRE, I got a 780. My verbal scores were pretty consistent on the verbal for PowerPrep and Barron's. At least for someone who makes mistakes like me, the PowerPrep is more accurate at predicting the quantitative score than the others, considerably so. The powerprep scores are almost certainly going to be the most accurate because the others have to guess on algorithms much more, and I guess the Math algorithm is harder to guess (probably because it's questions are harder to categorize). Were your PowerPrep scores among your best scores? Good, then be careful, don't get bogged down on any one question, and don't worry too hard.

Actually all the schools I'm applying to worked out for me, eventually. Berkeley has a professor (Cihan Tuğal) who studies contemporary Turkey (which means politics and religion). Columbia has a woman who works on identity formation in the late Ottoman empire and a woman who works on pluralism (here I have to sell the history angle more... and emphasize the minorities aspect for pluralism as opposed to secularism). Yale, I know has two graduate students already working on Turkey, religion and politics (one of whom I spoke to and seems like a cool guy); also Phil Gorski works there and seems to be headed in a more studying religion, specifically secularism, direction, as evidenced by his recent work and that he's started posting on the Immanent Frame. Princeton is about to graduate someone who seems ridiculously smart and works on religion (and politics) in Turkey. Princeton is basically the Mecca of Sociology of Religion. So all those places work. While there is a really cool guyat UNC-Chapel Hill, I just don't think I'd fit in with the very demography, very many other things that I have no interest in based department. I will definitely read his books, though. In short, I'm feeling okay and well researched. I'm just glad I'm applying to another discipline so I don't have to find more schools than those four, because that might be difficult. It's the other dude who had the question. Please give the advice to the fellow who asked the question initially. I was merely sympathizing.

I find it really interesting that a dozen people have voted but there have been very few posts recently. Looks like everyone is looking for some mid-app procrastination.... (no, no, no, but I'm still researching by reading this post... it counts as being productive)