Neither Here Nor There

I would start with your coursework and then do your thesis or research project, unless there is a pressing reason to. Your coursework is preparing you to write a tight and rigorous writing sample, in the sense that you are practicing writing lengthy papers of junior scholar quality, and indeed, a term paper can be modified into a writing sample. I finished my MA thesis last semester and did not use it as my writing sample. It was ultimately on the same topic as the thesis, but the entire program, coursework and thesis, helped me become a better writer. 

I can claim an acceptance to UW - Madison. Very excited about this one.

Update: accepted at UC Santa Cruz's PhD program. (This is the school that bumped me from the MA pool to the PhD)

I am wondering if people are not posting their results as much as in the past. I see a Oregon waitlist. I was not aware that they had sent acceptances yet. I wish people would post their acceptances more.

Longtime lurker here. Was emailed an offer of admission from Duncan Pritchard of UC Irvine this morning for the PhD in philosophy. 
 

Also, a good point. I can make a good score. By using all my time that I need to be spending studying Latin memorizing vocabulary and relearning the math tricks. That's it. The test really doesn't test anything other than the fact that you had time and resources to study. That you devoted time isn't a bad quality to have, certainly, because it says a lot about your devotion to learning in general, but there could be more holistic things to look for . . like one's foreign language skills or logic skills. 

Spoken like a philosopher!  The real reason we have this gosh awful test is that it makes money! I also would not complain if it was cheaper to retake. But it cost me a fortune to take the test and then send all the scores. Its quite frankly ridiculous, but such is life in capitalism.

Yeah so I know there are some really dumb incentives to value the GRE, like fellowships and all that. And I know that most philosophers don't care too much about GRE scores. I suppose my big gripe is that there are a sizable minority of (mostly analytic) philosophers who do care about the GRE scores. In certain cases, I've heard of people who regularly work on admissions committees taking poor GRE Q or VR scores to basically discredit a good writing sample (the idea being that the student might have gotten help on the writing sample, whereas their GRE scores somehow reveal their true, raw potential), which personally I think is a load of crap. 
Anyway, on kretschmar's point about the scores showing that someone is dedicated to being a good applicant, I can see what you mean, but I don't really think it makes valuing the GRE scores - in particular the quant - any less arbitrary. Most of us philosophy people probably have decently large working vocabularies and can spare a couple hours to study vocab or practice writing under a time limit. But for a lot of us, myself included, doing well on the Q section would have basically meant spending 3-5 hours a week studying math tricks for an entire semester, which seems like it *shouldn't* be necessary, even though it currently kind of is.
I agree with everyone's points about the system being screwed up. I spent $30 on a test prep book,  $200 (?) to take the GRE, and then $27 to send the scores to each school. And then there were the application fees. Applying to grad school really adds up. 
Also, the schools I applied to are mostly analytic, and I'm looking to study some very lemmy type stuff, so my Q scores might be more important for me getting admitted than people who applied to continental programs, but it is always nice to hear success stories from people with Q scores like mine! God, this week has been so slow.

People above make good points, but I think it's more of a structural problem with the (American flavored) intensity of competition rather than with the GRE itself.

Is the GRE probably not the best indicator of success in graduate school? Yes

Are many of the other components of the application--inflated letters, grades, and so on--also not necessarily the best indicators of success? Yes

Unfortunately we live in a seller's market where programs have every incentive to add unnecessary components to the application in order to cut down the number of applicants, even if those components are only marginally helpful.

It's one of the reasons I feel the U.S. education system is structurally flawed at a much deeper level. Rather than have a system where students can pay relatively little (say, under 2k per year, following the model in better EU countries) a semester to pursue a MA program before deciding whether the phd is for them, we force well-meaning, often naive students to i) apply for phds programs with 4% or less acceptance rates (even at unranked programs), ii) take out student loans for 20k or more per year at an unfunded MA (leaving aside the handful of good MA programs that are completely funded, like GSU--the same programs which are also becoming more competitive to get into), or iii) rely on their parent's wealth to carry them through the process, already exacerbating the economic inequality problem in graduate education--that's all without even mentioning the ever increasing costs of undergraduate education (especially when it comes to going to undergrad programs which can give you the background and expertise needed to pursue graduate education in the first place). And, in the end, even if one does get into a good phd program, you're still getting way underpaid for the amount of work you're doing, and in a situation with huge psychological pressure to succeed AND absolutely no guarantee of a job at the end. 
So sure, the GRE is a private company that uses its monopolistic position to exploit students, but that's basically true of the system on the whole. Which is not to say that one can't be happy while pursuing graduate education, but it's at least helpful to be aware of the structural problems before pointing out minor injustices with the application process. 



 

 

I can echo this! I got a 148Q the first time I took it and a 151Q the second time, and I haven't been shut out this season even though I have yet to hear from a bunch of schools!

The major problem with the GRE is that it's owned by a private company which exploits its monopoly position to rip off students who often don't have a couple hundred dollars to fork out for a multiple choice test, let alone enough to retake it if they screw up the first time around. If the US government wants to nationalize the test and make it basically free and 20 bucks for a re-take within the year, that'd alleviate a lot of the injustice of the test to start off.
When it comes to the test itself, I have to disagree with most of you, I think the writing section is an utter waste of time. All it measures is your capacity to waffle in a limited time on a usually pointless question. If you have a proper exam at the end of secondary education, like most countries do, there's no reason to have such a childish and ultimately useless test for people who have undergone 4 years of higher education.
I would do away with the test altogether; to my knowledge, they do fine in Europe without it. What is it about the American system that makes these multiple choice quizzes necessary? Most of us here, with enough work, could score near perfectly on the test. All it tests is your willingness to waste several weeks or months revising high school mathematics so that when the time comes you can calculate the square of the hypotenuse in record time. Much better off having rigorous testing to graduate high school and a mandatory undergrad thesis to see how well you can undertake big research projects...

@kretschmar Often the students who score a 335 on the exam had significant training or help (like GRE classes) that probably didn't come for free. Sure, it's possible a student sat down and self studied and somehow achieved a perfect score...but more often than not, those kinds of scores say more about an applicant's access to GRE resources than anything. Not to mention the outrageous price of the test itself, and that some people are lucky enough to have the money to take it more than once to improve their score. 

Accepted to UChicago! Received an email from James Conant, and will be speaking with my POI on Skype soon. 

Just got the email that I've been accepted at UWO for the MA program in philosophy. 

oh okay, cool. Much congrats.

Accepted by Minnesota a few days ago.

I have not applied there, but you have a good chance. York is good about accepting non-Canadian applicant. International students do pay a higher tuition rate; I don't know what kind of scholarships they offer to off balance that. But you should be competitive for admissions. I don't think the publications will put you ahead of other students, if its not in North American journals, but it would clear up any doubts that they could have about having a BA honours from a North American university. Good luck.  

Yea at the end of the day, I do philosophy because it brings me joy. I can always go back to to doing what I was doing before grad school if academia doesn't provide me with a job. But certainly, we can't be under the illusion that we *will* get an academic job. Its pretty discouraging. 

As someone who was shut out this season, I'll be happy to answer your questions after I meet with my MA adviser. We'll see what she says about these.

My only advice is apply to more schools than you think is necessary. 

Apply to schools that are varied ranking-wise, not just to the ones you think you can get into - often, I've found already several times in my life, better programs might accept you while worse programs will not. 

Hi, all,

I am a 2017 phd applicant. I am wondering if previous phd applicants, successful or unsuccessful, have advice for those of us applying next year.  I am especially wondering things, such as:

(1) Did you submit the same writing sample with all your applications, or do you think it's generally bad advice to submit different writing samples?

(2) Do you have any strategies for helping earn strong GRE scores? 

(3) Is it bad that at least 3 students from my department are applying to the same school?

(4) Anyone have experience placing in a phd with a no-name undergrad but a known MA program? 

(5) How much detail did you go into regarding your research interests on your SOP? Is it good to be specific or vague? That is to say, for those of us who know our main area of interest, is it detrimental you think to be specific?

(6) Did anyone contact professors in their AOI before the application season? Did you feel this is bad or good?

Feel free to answer any or none of these questions. Any advice or general encouragement is good. I'm already freaking out over all the rejections (securing a funded MA was stressful enough!) 

oooh, this one looks great!  Thanks.
 
http://cscl.umn.edu/grad/csds.html

I don't think you should spend much time working on learning languages. As other people have said, you can do that while in the PhD program (and the the school will pay for your classes). For what is worth, while knowing foreign languages is useful in continental philosophy, the language requirements often ask you just to be able to translate a text. I think your time is better spent polishing your writing sample and maybe retaking the GREs if you think your scores can improve substantially. I also don't think you need to take more classes besides the ones at your MA, especially if your BA is on English. I just came back from visiting Vanderbilt and a lot of grad students got in with little background in philosophy. 

I honestly think your best best is to work on a writing sample and do some language work. Things are hard enough for us, being continental-leaning applicants in a predominantly analytic environment, so the best thing you can do is make yourself into the strongest applicant possible.