mockturtle

That's all I ever did to prepare for the verbal section, and it definitely served me well. However, that's honestly because it was clear that vocabulary was the only thing I needed to work on, so it obviously depends on what you personally need. But if you trust in your reading comp, then I say go for it!

Yup! And I guess I spoke too soon, since my AWA scores just got released after roughly that amount of time, too. What changed your mind?

TakeruK, thank you so so much. I've definitely been focusing on research fit above all else, since I've seen so many people here call it the single most important factor in graduate school admissions. But it definitely shouldn't eclipse all other concerns. I'm actually working under a grad student whose advisor left halfway through her PhD, so I've seen how awful it can be if there's no obvious second choice available, but also how you can still do good research in a lab that may not be your ideal. Juilletmercredi, thank you too! That's actually pretty much exactly how I've been approaching this so far, in terms of including PIs who study at least a few pieces of the puzzle. There are actually a bunch of schools who have 3-5 PIs in the general vicinity of my research interests, but so many of them are out of the country that it just makes the situation feel even more complicated... ~~~~ I hope I haven't overstated the specificity of my research interests, however... My list of possible PIs is 6 pages long, and growing, and I haven't been limiting myself to only neuro+evolution+marine labs. They make up less than half of my list, so I'm definitely prepared to stray from my most-preferred sub-field. I'd just ultimately rather not, if I can have my way (and not suffer for it with a bad mentor, lack of back up options, or lack of variety, of course). Evolutionary/ecological neuro is somewhat of a niche compared to the wider field of neuroscience, but I'm honestly interested in everything from sensation (in every modality), to behavior (all of it), to circadian rhythms, to motor control, to cognition, to anatomy, and beyond. That's kind of a ludicrous portion of the field to want to study, almost like saying I'm interested in ~everything~, but I'd honestly be happy studying any of those topics provided it were through the lens of evolution or ecology. So there's already a good deal of flexibility in my interests, but the things that define them the most are also what make them niche. Passions can change, but for what it's worth, marine biology has sort of been my favorite thing in the world since I was a child (trite, but true), and the intent to study ecology/evolution was actually what led me into college in the first place. Neuroscience was the thing that came later. I don't know if that information is significant to anyone other than me, but my point is that while neuro has kind of taken over at the moment, partially due to having the most immediately plentiful research options, I very much doubt that I'll ever be able to truly abandon the other two interests. I know that's not what anyone in this thread is telling me to do, you guys are just advocating flexibility and I'm very much on board. I also know that people can hold valid side-interests while not focusing on them, and that it would be possible to temporarily stray away from one of those things, but return to it later when I'm large and in charge It's just that demoting any of them to "side-interest" or "that field I read about and pine over from afar" feels so awful (I know that because I'm doing it right now), and since people can and do incorporate them all together, I want to at least try? P.S: I really really hope I'm not coming off as obstinate, or like I'm misconstruing/negating anyone's advice, or anything. It's just that this specific interest comes from the integration of three, long-standing, independent, and powerful interests, rather than an overly-hasty narrowing down of one interest. It might not make this plan any more valid, and I'm not trying to change anyone's advice, but I wanted to be clear about where my confidence in this very specific passion comes from. It doesn't feel like something I grabbed onto too early, arbitrarily, or out of closed-mindedness. Maybe that's never how it feels to the person doing it, but I hope that makes sense.

Congratulations! "A decent 330" made me grin, that's very very decent Did it really take only a week for your AWA scores to be released? I'm so jealous...

Thank you all for your thoughtful replies! A lot of this is why I'm not applying to PhD programs just yet. I definitely need a hot dose of perspective before I'll be informed enough to truly commit to a subfield, and I absolutely concede the point that I'm a goofy undergrad with time to grow. But I'm not sure how better to get that perspective, apart from trying out what I feel to be my goal! (This is why the idea of a MS appeals to me, for the record. The potential breadth of study, and chance to try more things than if I went for a post-bacc job.) I don't want to give off the impression that I demand utter perfection from my graduate studies, or that I can't handle anything less. I'm interested in evolutionary neuro without the marine bio, and sensory/behavioral neuro without the evolution, marine sensory biology without the neuro, and so on. I'm preparing my undergraduate thesis in social neuropsych for goodness' sake, and spending this summer in a lab studying the development of motion selectivity, and I'm enjoying doing both. But when I tell people my interests, often what they say is "well what are you doing in an EEG lab, then??", and "the identity of my undergraduate research topic doesn't matter!!" falls pretty flat as an excuse. When I look at the profiles of PhD candidates in the labs I'd like to join, many of them were doing research incredibly similar to their current work as far back as undergrad. I'm not sure what else to do but get on their track, ASAP. And maybe it's crazy, but I've definitely heard that the work you do in grad school can come to define your entire career whether you like it or not. So the thought of compromising *too* much scares me for that reason.

I still haven't contacted any POIs or begun the draft of my SOP. I haven't done any grad school research in several weeks. I'm just so swamped by work and confused by my prospects, I have no idea what I'm doing, and I'm afraid I could be sabotaging myself by waffling and procrastinating so much. On the bright side, I bodyslammed the GRE. How useful is that going to be if I end up too overwhelmed to ever actually apply to grad school, though.

Is it better to express strong interest in one specific area/mentor, or to temper that by saying you're willing to compromise and try other things, even if you think you'll be less happy? This question has been hanging over my head for a long time. I'm not incapable of compromise, and I can enjoy research that isn't hyper-specific to my passions, but I feel like straying any farther from my true interests is just going to make it harder to achieve them in the future. Feel free to answer the above as you see fit, or if you're feeling generous, my situation is below. Thank you! ~~~~~~~~~~ I'm considering applying to MS programs this fall, and PhD programs farther down the line. And while I believe my upcoming application will be strong (GPA: 3.77, GRE: 168V/167Q, an upcoming senior thesis), I'm very concerned about the issue of research fit and relevant experience. My research experience is rather different from my goals (mostly human neuropsychology/EEG, a summer of visual neurobiology, no evolution or marine bio), and I failed to get into a single REU in my area of interest this summer, so I'm left supremely nervous about my prospects. I'm interested in placing neuroscience into its evolutionary and natural context: namely, the way an organism's ecology affects the evolution and function of its brain and sensory organs. Visual neuro is a bonus, but I'm interested in other sensory modalities, and non-sensory topics, as well. I also have an unyielding love of marine biology, which is very much intertwined with my love of evolution, and want to pursue research focusing on evolution in marine environments. This last point may seem superficial (I hope not), but it really lights my fire and I can't let it go. There are definitely people who study this sub-sub-subfield, but they're not overabundant. They're also scattered all over the world, and going international scares me from a funding perspective. Sample of one, but the only person I've seen on here who shared these particular interests didn't get accepted anywhere, and cited their niche interests as a likely cause. And when I see people say that you shouldn't apply to any schools with fewer than 3-5 potential PIs you'd like to work for, it shakes me. That would leave me applying to almost nowhere. I feel like I'm leaping off the edge of a cliff, I have no idea how to proceed. Any advice?

It may help at first to do a slew of practice problems, un-timed, while looking through Magoosh's math cheat sheet or something similar. Just search around until you identify the concepts/formulas/etc you're supposed to be applying to each question, and take absolutely however long you need to solve them. I honestly think that figuring out what a question is "really asking" might be the most important skill for a test-taker to have, and it should be pretty much intuitive by test day. It might feel cheap, and it obviously won't recreate the reality of the test, but it seems like what you need most is to work on the foundation of your math technique, and adding a time constraint on top of that is probably just going to get in the way, right now. Once you've covered this, then you can start doing timed problems under the actual test conditions. Seconding firewitch, I also found Number2.com helpful. I thought their practice problems were pretty difficult, but their little crash courses were spot on, and their breakdown of the quant section helped me to better focus my efforts. Kaplan's daily practice problems also helped me identify holes in my knowledge. I received a 167Q, if that legitimizes my advice in any way.

I just took the GRE this afternoon (after having followed this thread for a while), so here's my contribution! I spent a little over a month studying. In order taken, ranging from a month prior to ~2 weeks prior: PowerPrep #1: 165V / 169Q <---- I kind of cheated on this practice, verifying answers with a graphing calculator. Manhattan: 164V / 164Q PowerPrep #2: 170V / 163Q Actual exam: 168V / 167Q <---- AAAHHHHHH!!! "Unofficial scores" had better not mean "these will change", because I needed this. None of the practice tests were super close to my scores, but I guess the PowerPrep #1 was closest (if perhaps a little dishonest, on my part. Oops). I was a little disturbed by the fact that my quant score seemed to be decreasing with every practice test, and I think Magoosh's math formula ebook saved my skin. I didn't look at it until a few days ago. Double oops. I also used the Magoosh vocabulary flashcard app to pretty decent effect. However, I did find that my memory of most unfamiliar words I learned didn't last very long: a week at most, and then they dropped right out the back of my head. So I'd recommend reviewing them heavily in the days right before you take the exam, to keep it fresh. Now to wait on those essay scores... \(꒪ȏ꒪;)/

Well, I actually still don't even know if he's taking grad students in this particular cycle (for all the info on his prospective student page, that wasn't there.) I obviously need to at least figure that out, before I go crafting a whole personal statement... but I just wasn't sure how to interpret his request and whether to worry about seeming unprepared.

A few of the PIs I'm planning to contact have pages on their websites directed towards prospective grad students, with instructions. One in particular has a list of things that serious applicants must email, which consists of essentially all application materials (including a personal statement, CV, transcripts/GRE scores, and contact info for LORs). When PIs ask for these materials, how early in the year or how soon after first contact do they tend to expect them? The one previously mentioned PI is from a department that requires him to submit a letter of sponsorship before my application will even be considered, so it makes sense that he'd need my information urgently. But would it seem unprofessional if I were to email him now, and then hold back the requested materials for months later? I'll be asking him what things he needs when, but if his answer is likely to be "everything, ASAP" then I don't want to keep him waiting. Thoughts?

Oh, absolutely! I'm sure I'll end up applying to some kind of spread of both, but I wanted to make this topic to figure out how much I can *expect* from my searches into either option, how rough the competition is, and how people found their programs/positions. The practical side of things, more than the "what should I, personally, do" side of things.

Well I mean, I don't know if those questions are too intrusive Because I'm not sure if that's totally common and acceptable, or if it'd kind of come out of left field to be contacted by someone who doesn't intend to apply to your program yet, but demands career advice nonetheless. I wouldn't be sure what else to say, though... (And thanks, I hope you're right. It's just that despite my bio major and minor bio lab experience, I feel like I'll come off a bit like a psych researcher who's utterly unprepared to be a bio researcher)

Oh my god, this. Also just linguistic elitism in general. Grammar: good Being a tool about other people's casual grammar/dialect: not good, not productive, not intelligent, just don't

Yeah, the one remaining value I could foresee in a masters program would be increased breadth of options for a research topic, to allow me to explore my interests more thoroughly, as opposed to joining one lab and studying one topic for a few years (although if I already loved the topic that would be A-OK with me, I just really need more perspective on my interests). But I'm definitely on board with an unfunded masters being a bad choice. I'm just curious whether I could even reasonably *expect* a funded masters, or if they're 1) super-duper-rare-like-don't-count-on-it and/or 2) super-duper-competitive-like-don't-even-try.

I've honestly been thinking the same thing: that for a masters to be useful for me, it'd have to be both funded and very research-heavy. I just don't know where to find programs like that. Bsharpe269, your experience sounds like exactly what I'd hope to get out of such a program! But again, I've been having trouble locating any related to my interests, the way yours related to your subfield. My search has been far from exhaustive, though.

I'm not even sure how well I could represent my research fit with any given program, this fall, if I'm being honest with myself. Even within neurobiology I have a truckload of specific interests, as well as some broad ones, and probably a vaguer grasp on what I need from a PhD program than I should have. I find so many things interesting. And I don't even know where my 3rd LOR would come from... And these are the kind of problems I would expect gap years to help with, to connect back with my other thread. I'm considering contacting a few POI's at programs I'd like to attend in the future to ask what kind of experience they'd like to see out of an applicant / what specifically *I* could do, is that a normal practice? I know emails to POIs are recommended, but I don't know if that's too demanding.

Oh yeah, I getcha. Neuro is definitely very interdisciplinary, and I know neuro programs admit people with strong backgrounds in other fields who then decide to steer themselves towards neuroscience. But seeing as I *do* have background in neuroscience, and *have* had that opportunity, I'm afraid that would seem like a step backwards in my particular case? To go from neuro at the undergrad level, to not-at-all-neuro, back to neuro again at the PhD level... and having to justify why I did that, when I always knew I wanted to end up in neuro? It just feels like that could be a little questionable, and I hope it's avoidable.

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I hope 2 threads in a row aren't unbearably annoying, but I've never posted my stats anywhere before and I'd really appreciate some perspective on where I stand. I legitimately can't tell if I'm acting crazy and being hard on myself, or if my fears are right on target and my hopes of getting into any top programs (now or later) are a pipe dream. Any advice would be fantastic! Me: Rising senior, double major in neuroscience and biology School: Private, smallish, semi-prestigious (?? I think), research-heavy university Was a transfer student, so... Freshman year school: Small, private, liberal arts college Current Institution GPA: 3.84 Previous Institution GPA: 3.55 I recently calculated my combined GPA at ~3.75, but I'm not 100% sure if I was doing it the way my school eventually will, so take that with a grain of salt. Haven't taken GRE yet, but am good with standardized testing, so hopefully this will be an asset? Honors: Will probably be magna cum laude (unless I bodyslam the coming year, in which case summa) Will also probably have departmental honors in neuroscience Dean's List, why not Lab Experience: Will be ~2.5 years by graduation, but read on.... 1 semester & 1 summer: Work study lab tech in a genetics lab, almost all frog-feeding and glassware-sterilizing. Not the lab for me, and I didn't learn a great deal apart from how to scrub a feces-encrusted tank in a minute flat and how to fear your PI. 1 school year so far, will be 2 years by graduation: Research assistant in a new EEG lab, studying social interaction, motor resonance, and self control from a neuropsych perspective. The particular subject matter isn't very career-relevant for me, but I'm learning a lot and have made a point to be active in a bunch of projects and help out everywhere, I love the PI, and could definitely get a strong letter of rec. ***Will be performing a senior thesis here!*** Still in planning stages, but is predicted to be in self-control depletion and the tradeoff between empathy and restraint in joint complementary action. This is almost definitely going to earn me departmental honors on my neuro degree, not sure how much that counts for, but hey! I'm pumped! 1 summer (this upcoming one): Volunteering in a neurobiology lab on home campus (because the above lab is undergoing construction... like I said, new), which studies the development of motion sensitivity. I'll be working on a few people's projects, though I've barely gotten started so I can't quite comment yet. But I'm very excited! This could also be a good letter of rec, and is closer to my personal interests. Extracurriculars: They exist, but they aren't overwhelmingly career-relevant or brimming with demonstration of leadership potential and whatnot, so I don't know if they should even be included (I have a life and hobbies and stuff, I promise) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Discussion: If I said "~3.75 GPA, 2.5 years lab experience" I think it would conjure up a different image in your head than what the reality of my situation actually is. Starting out at a school without a neuroscience program delayed the discovery of my interests, and as a result my experience has been very scrambled. I'm grateful for the experience that I do have, it's more than a lot of people have the opportunity for, but if I want to get into somewhere like, knock on wood, Stanford neurobiology, then I think I need more than this backing me up. My thesis will certainly be an asset, but my interests lie in the neurobiology of sensation/perception, as well as a bunch of other specific things (ranging from circadian rhythms to the neural control of camouflage, I'm slightly all over the place), none of which are dry-lab human psych, all of which are more biological. I'm coming from a school full of opportunities for neuro work at least somewhat closer to these interests, I just couldn't make it happen, and my thesis lab was the only one I was able to find with the space for another undergrad project. I've been told that the proximity of your undergrad research experience to your PhD goals is less important than having done research, period. But I still feel that what I have is less-than-impressive for a top program, and that I'm ill-prepared for admissions into any good PhD program in biology or neurobiology. If anyone actually read the entirety this monster, you da best. Any light you could shed would be highly appreciated

This is so relieving to hear, hahaha My main worry is that I'm getting my hopes up too high, in regards to how close to my personal interests I could expect a gap year project to be (or a masters one, for that matter). Most of the point of this strategy is to get myself closer to the heart of my interests, both to make my background more relevant for neuroscience PhD admissions, and for my own benefit in helping me learn what it is exactly that I want to do. Doing a masters in biology would be fine, but I'm not sure what *more* it would give me unless there were some way to incorporate neuro into my thesis... Or maybe I'm completely off base, I don't know. I just feel like if I want to get into a neurobiology program, I should at least try to do some work in neurobiology, in particular, if at all possible.

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Hey all, I'm a rising senior with a double major in neuroscience and biology, and before I begin my foray into the wonderful world of PhD admissions I definitely think I would benefit from some more experience, some more perspective, and some better identification of my interests. I'm curious, then, how those of you who worked some number of gap years went about finding your positions? What kinds of positions tend to be the most readily available... or at least, what should I expect (i.e., are they largely just openings for techs, or is the opportunity for actual research there?) Are they insanely competitive or rare? Should I be afraid? Is cold-contacting possible PIs and praying for their good graces the name of the game, or do positions tend to be advertised (and where)? Also: I'm intrigued by the Neurasmus program, but in my searches so far, research-based masters/post-bacc programs relevant to neuroscience don't seem overly abundant. Am I looking in the wrong places? Does anyone know of any other structured pre-PhD (masters, post-bacc, or otherwise) programs which allow for research? Are they even worth it compared to just working some gap years? Both from a financial standpoint and otherwise. Thanks in advance everyone!!

Oh god, all this talk about older parents is close to my heart. I was my parents' first child at 39 and 45, so now at age 20 they're 59 and 65 and easily the oldest parents of anyone my age that I know. I still have 2 of my grandparents, thankfully... but my children might not unless I start pumping them out soon (and that's not happening). I don't even know if my dad will be around to walk me down the aisle by the time I'm married (also probably not happening soon), considering my family's medical history. It's a really chilling thought and I don't know anyone else my age dealing with it yet.

I feel sheepish even posting this here, but it seems 99% certain that I'm getting rejected from all the summer research positions I applied to, and my home lab won't be running studies over the summer. People I know keep telling me "oh, I just have a feeling one of those last places will hire you, there's no way they won't!", or "oh, that happened to me in my freshman year, but then I was able to get into *x,y,z undergrad programs later* and I'll have 3 years of experience by graduation, so things work out! .....You're a freshman right?" and it makes me want to deck them. I know not every successful person in academia was a shining star in undergrad, but oh my god this is going to be such a gaping-hole-in-my-resume of a summer