pippapants

Prestige doesn't matter all that much. I was recruited to several PhD programs from an MSW program that's ranked about 123. Got a fellowship, too, and offered an RA on top of that. Things I would consider if you want to do a PhD. Research and debt. First, if you want to do a PhD program you will need research experience either during your MSW or afterward. Where can you get that? Who has a strong research program? PhD programs won't care that your clinical background is strong if you have no demonstrated research interest or aptitude. Second, PhD programs have been known to put people into over $100,000 in debt, and you won't make any more money as an assistant professor than you would have as an LMSW. So don't compound that with MORE debt from your MSW. So, yeah, I went to a somewhat unprestigious school (because my husband had a good job in-state), but at my school, I got independent research experience, teaching experience, and my second year paid for (tuition waiver, 60% health insurance, plus $1200/mo stipend) by working on a half-time appointment graduate assistantship --- which coincidentally also provided me with a very, very strong LOR. So I would look at opportunities that will help you in a PhD if you think that's what you want to do. Just some things to consider.

Meh, I was bullied into the shape of my master's thesis. I applied to do a thesis instead of a capstone, which was accepted. Then my program changed its curriculum, and I have ended up being required to do both my thesis and the capstone required of everyone else. Unfortunately, I've had one semester for each, so I didn't really get to devote a full year to my thesis, collect enough data to do the kind of data analysis I wanted, etc. It's been a disappointing year.

Dude, I feel your pain. I defend TWO DAYS before my thesis is due to the graduate school because of my committee's schedules and the time crunch I'm under. I keep telling myself it'll be all right. They keep telling me it will be all right, but I am not so sure. I'm hoping that when I submit my thesis to them a few weeks in advance, they will ask for revisions at that time. This whole thing has just been a disaster because my department changed its requirements on me and made me do a captstone last semester and a thesis this semester. I didn't finish collecting data until 2 weeks ago. I'm about 50 pages deep right now without tables, and I still my discussion to write. I need to revise my lit review, as well. And it needs to be done in two weeks. FML.

I think it's really hard to justify a huge financial investment in a social work education, because you won't see the pay-off on the other end. In some fields, the reputation of your institution will bump your salary, but social work is not one of those fields. Unless you're absolutely okay with student loan debt impacting your financial future (and your family's, if you're planning on having one) in terms of home buying, car buying, monthly loan payments forever and ever, etc., you really have to consider what you are getting yourself into. So many professors at different institutions have told me that MSW programs are really quite equal across the board, in part due to CSWE curriculum requirements. I'm not sure why we all go so nuts over name recognition and ranking. All-in-all, though, I think banking on a loan forgiveness program is not a wise decision. Too many If's.

You know, I honestly don't know anyone who is doing one in the field of social work. I know two people who either have tried to or are doing them in other fields, with mixed results. I don't think it's as easy as anyone thinks it is. One guy had to work in a "high-need, underserved area" so he moved to an area that qualified and got started (six figure debt). A couple years into his program, another professional from his field moved nearby, and his area no longer qualified, so his program got canceled. However, he'd already established himself there, settled his family, etc., so he didn't want to move and try again. Another friend is working in non-profit for 10 years to get hers paid off (also six figure debt). She is making next to nothing and hates her job. In order to keep up with her program, she has to find another non-profit job hiring someone from her field, so she's really limited and may have to move across the state or to another state. Again.

Arizona State, Marriage and Family Therapy, Masters "Luckily, I've already been accepted into Hogwarts, School of Wizardry & the University of Narnia's School of Doesn't Exist, so I guess you can say I've got options. NO TEARS HERE!!!"

I honestly do not feel as though ranking matters in MSW programs in any way, shape or form. You want to go to a program that fits your needs and goals. If you want to specialize, you'll need to choose a program that offers that specialization. If you don't, then choose a program that is generalist in its philosophy. I know most people here don't really care about student loan debt, but that should bear more consideration than ranking. Student loan debt is no joke. It's a hole that people dig themselves into without any real understanding of what it takes to get out. In social work, going to a "highly ranked" school won't earn you a higher salary when you come out. You'll still be offered the same $35,000 job that my friend just got offered, WITH a Master's degree. Once you pay out your IBR student loan payment, that doesn't leave a lot for food and rent. As far as doing a PhD goes, getting accepted has more to do with what you do at your school (research, a GRA/GTA, writing/pubs, presentations) and what you do after school, etc. than the ACTUAL school you attend for your MSW. I am starting a PhD and my MSW program is ranked in the 100s. Granted, my undergrad is from a top 5 institution, but I also did a ton of work at my MSW program to build my resume. When I interviewed, the feedback that I got was that "It is nice to see a social work student so interested in research," not "Why didn't you attend a more highly ranked program? Your school is bunk." Someone else from my school got accepted to (really, was recruited to) a top 5 PhD program last year, and she did undergrad and MSW both there, so I really don't think ranking means anything. So in short, I would consider your needs, their curriculum, affordability, and opportunities for research and publications over ranking.

Yes, I was offered a fellowship at my first choice. They have the faculty I like the best. Really well funded program for travel and such. Friends in the area. More job opportunities for my husband. We should be able to live without loans. Woohoo!

Congrats, Hyronomous, where are you headed? Or are you still negotiating funding?

Val006, I was lucky to have really good support and advising during my apps process. I figured out early during my MSW what I wanted to do and tailored my education toward that by completing independent research and a thesis, taking on a GA, and doing conference presentations when available. I also asked around to different profs in my program for advice, so when I contacted PhD programs, I knew what to say and ask. But I think it helped because those professors who wrote my LORs were all involved in my research in some way. I know that one in particular wrote a strikingly resounding endorsement, because it was remarked upon by a director. I applied to four different schools, all in the Midwest for a couple reasons. My husband is looking into go back to school is well, so I could only apply to schools that have the program he is looking for. Also, we want to be able to afford to live on his salary and my stipend without loans, so cost of living was important. So it was definitely tough to find programs that were a fit. And they all wanted to know "Why here?" so that was fun to answer. I was accepted to two pretty early on and got 4 year funding from both. Rejected from the one I got my app into late and haven't heard from the fourth. But like I said, I didn't have great connections at either of those schools, so I didn't have a ton of hope. I've already accepted an offer from my first choice and declined the other so that waitlist admissions could be extended.

I think it really depends on how your experience and career goals align with the goals of the program; at least that's what I was told in interviews. A lot of schools are really research-focused and looking for students with either research experience or research "aptitude." I won't have any post-MSW experience, so when I reached out to the programs I was interested in, I made sure it was clear that I have independent research experience, and I'm looking to do research, not to teach practice courses. I also realize this will limit me when I go on the market. Program directors seem to view this as a strength, whereas some professors discourage it. Again, it all comes down to fit rather than numbers, I think. Obviously numbers help build your case, but it's really the whole package. I have also had better success with programs I did have a POI at, in terms of research fit. I was a bit lazy at a couple schools, sent in an app late at one and never really did much liaising at the other to build a relationship with a POI. Got rejected from the first and haven't heard from the second. Oops. Ha. For what it's worth, a program director told me that MSW GPA is irrelevant for PhD apps, because pretty much everyone who graduates from an MSW program has a 4.0. I know that's true of my program.

164/157/5.0. Wanted to re-take it for the quant. I feel like I would have done better the second time. But I, too, was pressed for time, so that was my one shot.

Ditto that.

I wouldn't let your age be more of a factor than an extra $20,000 in student loans. An extra year and change is worth the time investment to save yourself the headache of student loan debt and an out-of-state move. Also, LCSWs don't grow on trees, so I wouldn't count on having it in two years and leveraging that to pay off more in student loans. I've seen social workers get in way, way too deep with student loans and be unable to find a decent paying job when they get out. Then they can't afford supervision to attain their LCSW. The people who are most successful at getting an LCSW are the lucky ones who score jobs that come with in-house, free supervision, but those jobs are few and far between around here. In some areas, finding someone to do your supervision can be a barrier. It's definitely not as easy as most MSW students think it is.

As someone who is looking back on her MSW experience, and just finishing up this semester, I can give you the advice of what I wish I had known and what I wish I had based my decision on. Define what your goals are before you go into it. What do you want to get out of your MSW? What do you want to do with it? Are you simply looking to practice, or are you trying to launch an academic career? Do you want to specialize in either macro or micro practice, or do you want a more generalist program? What are your financial resources and limitations? How much debt can you come away with and still survive with on the other end? (Make sure you estimate what your monthly loan repayment will look like after school BEFORE you take on the debt. Income based repayment takes the same percentage out of everyone's salary, and lots of social workers in my area are extremely bitter about their loans vs. their salary. This leads to burn out and people leaving the field.) What kind of field placements do you want? How much training do you want in research? Until you have defined your own goals and your own limitations, it will be impossible to match your goals with the best program for you. Once you have answered those questions, then you will know the right questions to ask each program. How much does your program cost, and what are the options for financial aid? Do you offer assistantships, and how many? Do I stand a chance of getting one? If you offer concentrations or specializations, must I choose those up front, or can I change if I am not happy? How much flexibility do you offer in terms of field placements? The most unhappiness I've witnessed in my program is from people who did not know what they were signing up for when they enrolled -- unhappiness with limited field placements, poor field placements that don't prepare students, lack of specialization, not enough electives, and too much emphasis on research. (Research is my thing, and I feel like it's been pulling teeth to get to do any.)

I'm not sure about Berkeley. Maybe they were super confident about their yield? Some schools have a higher yield than others because of reputation or funding. Some schools with a great reputation have poor yield because of poor funding or high cost of living and tuition. As one director told me, "It's all about the yield."

What I've heard is that the reason applicants hear back at different times is that some schools use two rounds of decisions, rather than wait listing straight off. They make offers to their best fit or most desired candidates in January or early February (rejecting the folks they know they don't want), wait a few weeks to hear back from the students they offered to, and then make second round offers in March based on the yield from the first round.

Programs are very odd about timelines. The first program I heard back from is the last application I submitted, and I heard back at the end of January (accepted). I heard back from the second one shortly thereafter, and its app was due around the same time (accepted). I heard back from the one that was due December 1 in mid-February (rejected, unsurprising, since my app was late). Still haven't heard back from the last one, and according to GradCafe results searches from previous years, most people hear from them at the end of February. Either way, I've already accepted an offer.