pippapants

I was not under the impression that a writing sample needed to be a paper that fell in its entirety within the paper limits. If it does, then I've been doing it wrong all these years. If you can select a portion of the good paper that will stand alone, considering submitting it. There are ways to provide context for the reviewers, such as using clear headings (I am hoping you have used appropriate APA-style headings and subheadings in the paper) and submitting an outline with your application materials ("Please accept for review my completed application materials, including my application form, curriculum vita, three letters of recommendation, and sample of academic writing selected from a comprehensive policy paper reviewing child maltreatment in urban underserved families.").

I wouldn't be tremendously worried. The more expensive schools have some of the highest rates of acceptance, because they have such a low yield (i.e. half the people who get in have sticker shock and realize it will put them into debt forever, so they end up going somewhere more affordable). I think Columbia has a 60-70% acceptance rate, but has a pretty low yield. http://mswprograms.com/msw-acceptance-rates/ https://sweduc.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/msw-and-phd-admission-rates/

I had an EXTREMELY rough internship for the last year of my MSW, due to problems with my supervisor. We had different philosophies about a lot of things, and she was a terrible communicator. (Other staff under her immediate supervision had the same experience. She was passive aggressive, hard to read, defensive, and unsupportive.) I was an MSW intern doing the same tasks as LSWs at the agency (assessments and case management; nothing related to counseling, program development, policy, evaluation, etc.), and I had days in which I had 5 hours of free time, doing nothing at all. I asked her if there were any additional projects at the agency that I could meaningfully contribute to and would support the development of necessary competencies, and she took it as me saying that I was too good to be doing two assessments a day and sitting around on my *** the rest of the day. She torpedoed my grade at semester because she disagreed with our field director's grading system. (She felt that I should be graded on clinical-readiness all year, rather than using the field director's rubric stating that we be graded as mid-year MSW interns in the first semester; so she gave me a D a midterm and a B at semester, while other students got As). I had a breakdown when I had to go back after winter break. I was miserable. I met with my field director to discuss my concerns, that I didn't feel that I was meeting my goals or developing my skills, and she told me that other students would be grateful for the opportunity to have time to complete homework. May you have a better conversation with your folks than I did with mine, because nothing changed, I was made to feel bad about "complaining," and I ended up feeling unprepared for clinical practice (maybe it's a good thing I went straight into a doc program). Other students had full caseloads of counseling clients. I had one counseling session all year. DISASTER.

Other things to consider: A doctoral program is not an achievement in and of itself. It's training for a completely different career - research and academia (and people wash out because of the pressure, the stress, and the criticism). In that sense, your dissertation is not the culmination of your career, it launches your career, sets you on a path, etc. You can't really look at your research as something you want to do simply because it's personally relevant to you -- it has to fill a gap in the the scientific literature for you to get anywhere with 1) publication and 2) funding. Your productivity and ability to secure funding will in large part determine your attractiveness as a researcher, though you can boost that with expertise in clinical experience or even quantitative research methods. It's very important that you can convince other social scientists (potential colleagues, journal reviewers, funders, etc.) that your research is novel and innovative. Following from that, use your time in your MSW to immerse yourself in the scientific literature so that you know what has been established by other researchers in that area (and I would guess that there is a lot of research there) and what gaps exist. At that point you'll have a better idea where your interests fit, the methods you'll need to learn, etc. It's really too early to define your dissertation. I would encourage you to be open-minded about your interests, your methods, and your research agenda. If you take a definitive approach to your research too early on, you may find yourself disappointed when it comes time to apply to a doctoral program. You may find it difficult to identify a faculty fit (someone whose interests in content, population, or methods align with yours and who will mentor you) -- particularly if you are unwilling to re-locate for your PhD. You may find that faculty tell that your stated research question 1) adds nothing significant or novel to the literature or 2) will be difficult to secure funding for, based on your stated interest in qualitative methods (sad, but true). Be open-minded, and you will have a better experience.

Contact the program and ask them, since I doubt you'll find many folks here who are intimately familiar with Penn's DSW requirements. I'm in a PhD program, and I don't even know the exact admission criteria for my program. That said, DSW's are advanced clinical degrees (though there is no additional clinical licensure to support the degree), so I don't know that they would require pubs or research, like PhD programs, which are research programs.

While I agree with the above poster that you still have some to sort some things out, it is NOT true that 1) you need an MSW, or 2) you are required to have 2 years post-MSW experience. Many programs offer joint MSW-PhD options (look, ma! no post-MSW experience!), and there have been students known to obtain a PhD in social after transitioning from a related discipline or field (someone in my cohort has a MS and work experience in a related field and is not being required to go through the MSW program). There are no *rules* that apply across programs. There are lots of ways to get that post-MSW experience if you want it. Some people work while they are dissertating. Some people work for a year or two before. Some people, I don't understand them, work for 10 years, start families, have mortgages, and are able to take the financial hit to go back to school. The bottom line is that it is a personal choice based on what your goals for your career are, where you are in the trajectory of your life, and what is best for you.

I would argue that you need more of a reason to get a PhD than not feeling challenged or marketable where you are. Entering a doctoral program is training in scholarship and research for a career in academia (though I suppose there are people who intend to do other work, though I haven't met many of them). I've been in my program for 3 weeks, and it is extremely difficult. The material is difficult and dense, the hours are long, the money is bad, the RA can be tedious, and I constantly feel confused and/or lost and/or inadequate. What keeps me motivated is knowing that this is the career path I want and that I don't believe I would be happy doing something else. So, I wouldn't choose a PhD unless you are certain you want to do academia or research as your career. Just my advice.

I did my internship at offices 70-90 miles from my home and got reimbursed for nary a mile, all year long. I don't even want to think about how much I spent on gas and how much time I spent in the car.

I was told that MSW GPAs are pretty flat (and inflated, it would seem) -- mostly A averages and a lot of 4.0s.

I'll pitch in here as well. My husband and I are in the process of attempting to buy a home, and we're finding that our student loans are standing in the way of our ability to qualify for a mortgage, despite the fact that he has a decent job. Debt-to-income ratio can really cripple you in the future, so don't think of student loans as just something you'll deal with later and pay back little by little, because a huge debt on a without a huge salary (like a six figure salary) can inhibit your ability to qualify for loans in the future. So, yes, you are correct to fear taking out more loans. When it comes to social work, in which investment in higher tuition won't pay off in a higher salary, you're better off saving money and going to a cheaper school, getting a graduate assistantship, etc.

Not a bad thing.

I just didn't want you to think that NYU is an undesirable program, which is what your post seemed to imply (i.e. that not a lot of people were applying). I do think cost of living turns a lot of people away. But our respective stories go to show that PhDs are very individualized -- you apply to a school based on what is best for you and what your priorities are. There are a lot of schools that really fit my research interests but just weren't feasible for me. That is all I was saying.

So, at my program, some professors have a graduate assistant, and some don't. Of the professors who have a graduate assistant, some are research-based, some are teaching-based, and some are administrative. Of those positions, some hired incoming first year grads and keep them for two years (such that the position wouldn't be open the next year), and some had second year grad students. So I scoped out which professors had graduate students who were leaving and which professors I would be willing to work with. Sure, we have a "generic GA application process," but if you're a second year student, you can often skirt that system by letting a professor know that you are looking for an assistantship and would be interested in working with them. By the time I got done, I had several offers for GAs, whereas other people had none. It pays to be aggressive.

Dude, I paid my first year at a state school with loans and was DONE with that when I did my financial aid entrance counseling (I didn't want any more than $20,000 for my MSW), so I started looking for professors who would take me on the next year. I built a relationship with my current boss early on in my first year when I applied for a research fellowship she oversees, and then I started bugging her about hiring me before she ever even started looking for a new GA. You really have to put yourself out there and let professors know you want to work. I don't think my boss even interviewed anyone else. Ha. But she's told me multiple times this year how much she enjoys my work, and she wrote me an amazing LOR for PhD programs.

Is this for advanced standing or for a two-year program? If it's for a two-year program, there may be a possibility that you could have your second year paid by a half-time appointment for if you build relationships and perform well your first year... Just a thought.

Hrmm... It's not a BAD offer for the amount of service required. In-state tuition is not bad. My MSW GA came with tuition waiver, 60% health insurance, and $10,000 a year in stipend. But the appointment is for a lot more service -- 20 hours per week. I have TA'd one course per semester, done some administrative work, and provided support for community outreach.

I did not apply to any super-urban schools for my PhD, regardless of reputation, for several reasons, so I never even looked at places like Columbia, NYU, UMB, USC, or places like that. We just couldn't afford to live in a place like New York without needing to take out additional loans, and that wasn't something I was willing to do for a PhD. I got 4 years tuition waived with a nice stipend at a top 20 school with faculty in my area of research and in a city with a low cost of living and job opportunities for my husband. I should walk away from this experience with no extra debt. Woohoo! I don't know about anyone else, but finances, region, and research fit certainly impacted where I applied.

I have heard this about TX. My mentor from my MSW is from there and despite the fact that she is a full-time, tenure track professor who no longer practices, she has maintained her licensure in Texas. If it lapses, she says, it would be a bear to get it back.

If you feel the numbers are not reflective of your abilities, I would advise you to take it again. Personally, I would not submit GRE scores that are indicative of an attempt I hadn't studied for. The GRE is an exam you get much better at when you learn about it and practice it. If you get a book and start doing practice tests, you'll see how much you improve just from experience with the exam. It really doesn't take that much effort. If you want to know where you currently stack up among others in the field, go here or here.

I'm not sure what BC is like, but at my university there are a bundle of assistantships across campus that offer tuition waivers to graduate students -- in student affairs, academic dishonesty, greek life, residential life, etc. A lot of them like social work students, too. Anyone can apply for them, they're half-time appointments (20 hours per week), pay 60% of health insurance, and come with a $1200/mo stipend. Even though I live out of state (like 2 miles over the border), mine covers almost everything. Never say die. Keep trying for some kind of GA. Good luck.

Yeesh, that's tough. You are always free to ask for more money, but you have to do it in a very professional way, and in this situation, I don't think you have a lot of leverage. Often when you are negotiating a financial offer, you are doing from a place of need ("I am very interested, but I need more money to make your program financially viable") or from a place of comparison with other offers ("I am very interested in your program, but finances are a concern, and X program has made me a more competitive offer"). In your case, you turned down a generous offer last year in order to attend an out-of-state program last year, and they probably realize you are looking to get out of that program and come back in state, right? I don't necessarily think it's a *bad* idea to ask them to reconsider your scholarship award, but I would be careful about how you ask it. Recognize that this is a school whose more generous offer you've already turned down in the past. It's a very touchy situation.

You would have to ask the specific program, but our program would not allow you to switch. We only admit to part-time every other year, and you are admitted based on your interest in full-time or part-time. Once each program is full, it's full.

I currently commute 12 hours a week for my MSW program and work 20 hours per week on a graduate assistantship that is paying for my second year of school (meaning I will graduate with 20k in loans). My advice: DO NOT DO IT. I *hate* it. Between 24 hours a week in internship, 20 hours a week in assistantship work, 12 hours a week in commuting, and about 30 hours a week in classwork (not to mention attempting to train for a marathon), I'm going about 90 hours a week right now. I'm lucky that I have a partner who cooks and cleans, because otherwise I would be eating fast food and living in a trash heap at home. It really takes a toll on everything. I don't have time to invest myself fully in anything, including my schoolwork or in my relationship at home. If I had those extra 12 hours a week, I would be sooooooo much happier. I cannot even describe it. I would say that financial considerations are really important when you are considering a career in social work. Sure, there is IBR and loan forgiveness programs, but carrying that much debt will impact your ability to take out other loans (for cars or homes), particularly because you won't have the salary to compensate for it, no matter where you graduate from. And loan forgiveness programs limit the types of jobs you can take.

I'm not an NYU applicant (and I haven't seen any on here), but due to the universal graduate school funding response deadline of April 15, you should know something around then. And definitely understand that while you are free to encourage folks to hurry up and decide, the graduate school is not. They have to give each candidate until April 15, without pressure, to decide whether to accept or decline a funded offer of admission.

That's unfortunate that there are so few RAs available. Our school only has a few as well (but several administrative GAs and teaching focused GAs, too), but with less than 50 students in our entire program, it's not that hard to get one if you are motivated. There are other ways to get research experience beyond an RA. Our university requires each graduate level student to complete some sort of thesis or capstone project as a graduate requirement. The social work program requires independent research, so everyone's capstone is a small independent research project. I chose to the more substantial thesis option to fulfill that requirement. So check on things like that.