Vulpix

Thanks for your insight! It doesn't hurt that you went through the exact same choice.

Nice to hear from someone else!! I applied to the same schools as you, just swap NYU for Vandy. Penn and HGSE are my top two right now, but I'm a libra and all of that could change in an instant (5 months ago I hadn't even heard of Penn's program, was applying to HGSE on a whim, and was dead-set on Columbia!). I've been accepted to Penn, a little bit of funding, so I'm still open, but I've fallen in love with a lot of the components of Penn's program, primarily the internship. I know the others have access to internship experiences, but at Penn they really train you for it and find it for you internationally, which is a big draw.

FYI: Penn's program directors are very responsive and thorough! I sent them an email with some personal questions to help me make a decision down the road. In case any of this is helpful to you: 1. Admitted students day will be Saturday, April 2nd. I can't believe she actually told me this, LOL! I really thought these things were mysterious. I really hope this isn't the same day as HGSE's event... if I get in, I'd really need to visit both schools! But the weekend before is Easter/Good Friday, and the weekend after seems way too late to have an event.... I hope they deliberately schedule these on different weekends. 2. As for tuition, which was confusing to me, she said that all GSE tuition is based on credit units (1 CU = 1 course most of the time), so the cost of doing the program is 1 vs. 1.5 years in my case is mostly a differential of living expenses and not a tuition difference.

Thank you for your honest and thoughtful post! It's quite disheartening to read some of that, but realistic. I can personally corroborate some of your experiences: my undergraduate degree is from a prestigious school, and I have a 3.69 from that school. My master's degree is from a public CUNY, and I have a 4.0. Now, personally, I believe I had to work my ass off for the 3.69, and my 4.0 masters required very little effort/far less rigorous, but that's a separate issue. As I am currently applying for a second masters (to switch careers), and am applying exclusively to name brand schools (mostly because those are the only ones that offer my program in the Northeast), having talked to people in-the-know, they said that they much more highly regard my 3.69 than my 4.0, because the 4.0 is non-reflective of academic excellence because of the school I earned it at. Now, this next statement may be pretentious, but I actually do agree with them: if you can earn a 4.0 and not feel intellectually or academically challenged, a school is not as strong as one where you feel like you strained every last brain muscle to achieve a lower grade. In this circumstance, I'm grateful that the rigor of my undergraduate experience is recognized and valued. While it certainly promotes a problematic old-boys-club kind of thing, there is definitely some merit in weighing prestigious institutions more highly---they are, generally, prestigious for a reason---they are VERY academically challenging. There are geniuses and dummies at all institutions, which is why you should never judge a book by its cover---I've known brilliant minds attending community colleges, and real ignoramuses at ivy league schools---but generally speaking, the average quality of academic ability corresponds to the ranking of the school, and that should remain somewhat relevant to your application, although hardly the most significant.

And, most importantly, do you and EVERYONE YOU KNOW have a job immediately after graduating ? But seriously, I think this is the biggest thing I'm getting at---will Harvard make it immeasurably easier for me to get jobs? (I imagine it helps to get *interviews*, and then it of course comes down to the individual.)

No problem, feel free to message me if you have any other questions!

Thanks! Of course I assumed they *have* languages, just haven't read about anyone actually taking them at GSE !

It's in my signature My application was complete 12/13, and I heard back 1/15. If you don't count the week they were off for Christmas, that's only about 3 weeks! I was surprised it came that fast, I was expecting to wait at least another week or two. The official wait time is 6-8 weeks, but it seems they are processing them quickly this year. Previous years it was 4-6 weeks they said, but last year was super slow because they changed systems. It seems this year they are used to the system, because another poster here found out within a month prior to Christmas, and I found out during a very busy time for them as well. So you should expect to hear back in another two weeks or so, I think!

Today I received a slightly more personal email from my program manager more personally welcoming me to the program and offering to answer questions, etc Feels good to have human contact after seeing the acceptance letter, which a small part of me thought was a mistake or might disappear (so I've checked it a few times this week to make sure it's still there )

Yes, I also got the email today saying my application is complete. So that's reassuring.... On a totally separate note, does anyone know anything about opportunities to study foreign languages under the HGSE program? Can you audit classes in general? Who should I ask about this? My program has 4 elective classes I believe. I was wondering if one can be a foreign language, and what school that would take place at? The other IED/IEP programs I applied to at Penn and TC have foreign language opportunities, but I haven't seen much about it at HGSE.

You have virtually the same GRE scores as me, and more experience---I was recently accepted to Penn GSE. As you know, it's only your GPA that would hold you back, but you did the right thing in applying to these schools, because you stand a chance and you believe in yourself, and I truly think that confidence in your SOP is what shines through. When did your Penn application say "ready for review"?

Very interesting. None of those statements really shock me, but it does go to show that you never know which universities are perfect for which programs/people. It's a shame though, because the general public would assume that you are "brilliant" and getting the "best education" at Harvard, whereas the reality is you are brilliant and therefore choosing the brilliant and better option at UCSB, for example.

I'm only speaking from my experience, but I was just accepted to Penn for a masters in International Education Development, a field I have very limited experience in. I have a pretty good GPA from a brand name UG school. I am of the opinion that if that GPA was from a different school, I may not have been accepted. I also feel like the only reason I got my first job was because of my UG school, that my job applications stand out and obviously so do my grad school apps. Like the other poster said, I don't think it necessarily works in the reverse. I think having a brand name HELPS, but having a non-brand name is NEUTRAL. It's not like someone sees the name of a college and goes "WHAT A PIECE OF CRAP!" They've either heard of it and are impressed, or they're neutral. In rare cases, people may have biases, but for the most part it's a college degree, let's see how you did with it.

I think they *could* negatively impact your chances, because it's been rare to read about someone on these forums getting in with a GPA sub 3.4 or so, without incredible experience and SOP, etc. I'm sure you have strong everything else, but that's why I said I thought it would be a good idea that 1 of your 3 recommendations comes from an academic reference. I think Harvard wants to know that you are holistically hard-working and focused (TFA/coach recs), but also needs evidence that you will be able to handle the intense academic workload of HGSE, that you are a strong reader and writer and student in general. Do you think your application demonstrates that you are academically capable beyond personally capable? These may be different things, and HGSE wants us to have it all, because they can afford to be picky. They always say that if one part of your application is lacking, make the rest shine. It sounds like you made the rest shine and thus gave yourself a good chance Also, as someone who also works in charter schools surrounded by TFA alums, I know that HGSE values TFA, because two of my coworkers went to HGSE. That being said, they also had 7 years of teaching experience by that time, and stellar GPA/scores from Cornell and NYU undergrads, so.....

Congrats!

I think your GPA is a bit low, but not a deal breaker. It would not be unheard of for that to be ignored by HGSE if your SOP is really strong! Do you have LORs from professors who can speak to your academic ability? That might've been a good idea because HGSE might be wondering how you'd do in classes.

You might get this a lot from people outside of physics, so I apologize, but your post just reminded me of episodes of Big Bang Theory where they make fun of Leonard for going to Princeton for physics because the rest of them went to CalTech or MIT . The Chicago/Harvard jump seems absurd, unless of course Harvard also offered your friend some kind of considerable scholarship, even if not a full ride. The funny thing is, it sounds to me that it would be worthwhile in physics to jump from top 25 to top 2 with considerably less aid, but then again if your expected income after graduation would not be higher, well, you get the picture... but it's good to know that STEM programs are strong in many places across the board.

For a second I was worried you may be my best friend, who is also first-generation, low-income, went to Penn on a full ride... but she's already in med school . But I'm sure that's the story of MANY Penn grads! My brother went to Penn State, so my family is already so confused, and it does irritate me. I went to Vassar for undergrad which is also a well known and respected school but also one that many people haven't heard of, outside of the people who would have heard of it, you know? It's not a big deal of course, and you're definitely right that people who matter would know the difference. In the long run, I'm sure things will work out regardless of my choice . Thanks and best of luck to you too

Yes, this is going to be a big deal for me as well, comparing (potentially) Philadelphia (cheap) and Cambridge/Boston ($$$$$$$$$).

Thanks for the support I think I'm grappling with the idea that I currently would prefer to attend Penn for its students experience, but would prefer after graduation to have the Harvard connections . I feel really fortunate to potentially even have this problem, and if I get rejected from Harvard, which of course is always more likely than not, I can still move forward with a smile on my face. Thanks for the input everyone!

For my first masters acceptance, I received a $10K merit scholarship (for a $45-70K program, which is the same cost as the other programs to which I've applied). The rest would be independent savings and loans. Let's say another school offers $5K merit, and another one offers $15K, or even $20K. In the long run, do you personally think a $10K differential in loans is worth picking one school over the other for? Obviously this is a complex, personal question that requires a great deal of consideration, but I'm just trying to gauge the general opinion on this. I kinda feel that if it's a difference of 5-10K, I might as well just pick the school that I like better, even if it's slightly more debt. Obviously if it's a full ride or significantly more money, it's a different conversation. Basically: How much extra debt from your preferred choice is marginal enough to warrant declining a bigger offer?

This is the part that makes it a could-go-either way thing. It doesn't even matter if I'm 'relatively happy' or 'so happy', because it's only one year, and yet it somehow seems critical to make the right choice. I think it's because the experience itself will feel so fleeting, and almost irrelevant, to what the degree and institution itself represents afterwards. I think choosing Duke over Harvard for what I assume is a PhD is highly logical. I think choosing [insert state here] State University over Harvard is extremely logical for a PhD. I'm a masters student, but I am not in the "grow up" situation that maybe my post suggested. The only reason I brought up my mother at all is because most of my family is lower-income, rarely has had higher education, and have basically only heard of Harvard and some local schools. It's less about bragging and more about the symbolism of achievement of some abstract American dream that means something significant to a family that has never really accessed that type of "success." I am fully aware and in agreement that Penn is an incredible school, and obviously I'm mature enough to rank it first in my mind right now, just because I may get into Harvard. As you can tell I'm seriously leaning toward Penn. But the vast majority of undergrad and grad students at Harvard would be dishonest with themselves if they didn't admit that at least a small part of why they chose to go there was simply because of the name of the school, and that's not nothing. These are things that are discussed openly in the Harvard threads on this forum in the past, mature people honestly saying "I love the program, the school is a great fit for me, AND IT'S HARVARD!!" It's a valid feeling and virtually inescapable not to have that sense of brand in your head in some capacity. But I don't want to go to Harvard "because it's Harvard," I would want to go there because of all the doors it will open and the vast resources and opportunities that I think I could be missing out on if I don't, even with the incredible opportunities that I'm sure Penn provides. Basically, the only reason I'm afraid to turn down Harvard is because I believe that however amazing Penn is, Harvard may offer just a little bit more opportunity. I do appreciate your comment that "your success is based on you and not the program." I certainly believe this to be true (just like you don't need to go to either of these schools to achieve success). I think because my field of study is international in nature, I need to worry about the networking and connections these institutions have worldwide, and Harvard is one of those schools that has international recognition, without much exception. Penn may offer an equally excellent education, but may be less recognizable to international players.

Thanks for this. I'm just a lowly masters student, so I don't yet have to truly consider things like publications and whatnot, as I intended to get in and get out as they say (both are 1 year programs). I definitely look forward to the admitted students weekend at Penn (and perhaps Harvard). Obviously Penn IS already a name brand, and there is a lot of adrenaline still. Hopefully I'll have a full picture to make a super informed decision if I should be so lucky. LOL my mom got an MA from University of Phoenix online and is the chief proponent of GO TO HARVARD NO MATTER WHAT.

I'm not in this position yet, but basically, I've gotten into Penn, and have fallen in love with my program and the school, so much so that I almost don't want to get an acceptance to Harvard (which I will find out about in March), because then I would end up seriously considering turning it down . However, the thought of getting into Harvard and choosing another school (even another Ivy), kind of makes me sick... like, will I regret it? Even if Penn is the more "perfect program for me", in the long run, wouldn't having gone to Harvard be the biggest accomplishment I could hope to put on a resume? My family and friends all say, you f***ing GO to Harvard if you get into Harvard. When I first started my application process, I of course agreed with them. Without delving too deeply into my personal experience and needs and finances and how all of that should reasonably factor into the decision (I'll do that if I'm lucky enough to be put in this predicament, I realize it would be an amazingly fortunate problem to have), I was wondering what everyone's general thoughts on this are?

I haven't received any info regarding HGSE's financial aid app, but I did already submit my FAFSA (without my 2015 tax return.... you can submit it and estimate your income based on 2014 if it's similar, and then adjust later once your taxes are filed). You can definitely fill out your FAFSA now! Seeing as the FAFSA deadline will probably happen before I get all my tax information, I knew I might as well fill it out early. Also, is it just me, or did the FAFSA take at most 15 minutes to complete? I was so daunted by it, but all I had to do was look at last year's tax return and they literally tell you which lines to look at and report. I'm pretty financially illiterate when it comes to IRS stuff, but that online FAFSA seemed incredibly user friendly to me. Here's my two cents. I think the SOP is the most important thing they look at, and a "bad" one (btw, I'm sure you're overthinking it) could be a reason to get rejected. I'd be happy to read yours and give an outside opinion. But, looking at your experience and unique background, I'm sure that shines through and is valid to the committee, and will definitely elevate their opinions of you as a candidate. As long as your SOP added some degree of new insight into you that your resume didn't, at any point, it has additional value. I was also concerned that my SOP rehashed my resume, because I'm certain that maybe 40% of my SOP does rehash my resume, but I made sure that the seminal points of the rest of it were newly insightful (aka could not be gleaned from my resume/academic background because they were personal, anecdotal, or aspirational). I also made sure that whenever I felt like I was rehashing my resume too much, I would tie it back to HGSE. Something to consider: did you think about the need to *not* rehash your resume before you wrote it, or was it just after the fact that you realized that was a bad idea? I feel fortunate that I read through previous HGSE threads here (because I have no life) and therefore knew from other candidates what HGSE wants to see, which is *why them* *why you* *why now*, and don't rehash your resume. But like I said, that's not an automatic disqualifier, and I think especially for the MBE program, you'd be in good standing. On a completely separate note, I have also noticed that a greater majority of gradcafe posters are accepted than rejected (as you said, 60-80% perhaps), and that certainly has to do with the fact that we are obviously among the more obsessed/invested people in our own application process, so much so that we felt the need to commune and seek each other's counsel about it. I also think gradcafe can be attributed for a lot of the strengths I feel I put into my own application, because without this site I wouldn't really know much about HGSE or what admissions looks for. Obviously, this site is not representative of the nameless hundreds (thousands?) who also apply to these schools. So, it's worth some inward reflection whether or not you consider yourself one of the *crazy* invested applicants. I'd been thinking about my application for 6 months before I applied. Now, I still haven't gotten accepted, (just newly confident after getting into Penn, which I think is actually more competitive than HGSE for my particular program), so I have no idea how much investment and passion for the application process ultimately pays off, but I did feel like I knew exactly what HGSE was looking for in the SOP. FWIW, I think confidence goes a long way in SOPs. I remember applying to college 9 years ago and praying I'd get accepted to my dream school, and thinking "it's not possible but I also wholeheartedly believe it's the right place for me to be." I approached my SOPs in much the same way, because I wasn't treating HGSE as a "please take me, I don't really believe in myself that much that I deserve to go to you." I treated HGSE as a perfect match, that we are both deserving of each other. I like to think that confidence in our "relationship" is convincing. It definitely got me into a reach college the first time, and has worked so far in this graduate admissions process.